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yadkintar
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Registered: Jan 2013
Location: Marietta
Posts: 10790

quote:
Originally posted by Richard Lambert
I will abide by the rule, until they are comfortable recutting their dog. I don't really care how long that they want to keep their dog on the leash. I mean, it is their dog. I try to worry about my own dog.

I am talking about you Trevor said no respectable judge will let a person take advantage of this rule he works for ukc are you saying he is wrong are you like Nancy did you just look over that part !

Tar

Last edited by yadkintar on 08-17-2020 at 02:02 PM

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08-17-2020 01:45 PM

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Allen / UKC
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Registered: Nov 2004
Location: Michigan
Posts: 9186

quote:
Originally posted by novicane65
So what's your call on this Allen? How far could or can a handler walk his dog on the leash once he says he wants to re-cut?

Trevor covered it correctly. I understand that some feel like we should have a pre-determined time or distance, but as Trevor mentioned, that proposal failed last time so we don't have one.

The other thing is, for all these years, it has not been an issue and worked quite well. It's one that requires using common sense and the handler being reasonable. If the handler is wanting to walk too far and beyond reason, the judge should step in.

Generally, when a handler wants to make an issue of it, it has more to do with their strategy than it does them being worried about the dog going back to the same tree. If someone needs to walk an unreasonable distance in order for the dog not to go back, they have a dog issue that is generally easily fixed during the week.

Personally, I want to be able to turn my dog back loose within ten feet of any tree. That may be less than many others but that's me. And if I can't, it will only be a matter of a little time and training on my part.

Same with dogs coming back to meet me. Going back to the same tree and coming off a tree to meet me have always been two of the only training issues I've found necessary to train for to eliminate potential issues in a nite hunt. Again, that's just me.

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08-17-2020 05:06 PM

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Nathan Phenix
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Registered: May 2017
Location: West Plains Mo
Posts: 471

The rule was made for people that dont want stuck on a leash. Who cares how long someone else wants keep their dog on leash. If a guy beats me by keeping his dog on leash while mine is loose more time than his the rule is least my problems. You all fight and carry on like bunch lil school girls arguing over some dumbest stuff.

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yadkintar
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Location: Marietta
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quote:
Originally posted by Nathan Phenix
The rule was made for people that dont want stuck on a leash. Who cares how long someone else wants keep their dog on leash. If a guy beats me by keeping his dog on leash while mine is loose more time than his the rule is least my problems. You all fight and carry on like bunch lil school girls arguing over some dumbest stuff.

What most are not seeing is there is a reason for a set time or distance. If a handler can keep his dog on the leash at the right time let�s say 5 or 10 minutes then until a positive opportunity presents itself Then recut it�s a strategy. I consider a dog on the leash the same as a non working dog.

Tar

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08-17-2020 05:29 PM

Richard Lambert
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Registered: Aug 2004
Location: Chattanooga, Tn
Posts: 22461

quote:
Originally posted by Nathan Phenix
.... carry on like bunch lil school girls arguing over some dumbest stuff.

....Oh my goodness... I guess that someone had to say it....

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08-17-2020 06:01 PM

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Redneck Mafia
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Registered: Aug 2013
Location: Seneca, Mo
Posts: 5823

quote:
Originally posted by bluetikman
What if you score a dog on tree and no other dogs are struck in?

So if another dog is struck in you have to hear a dog bark before you cut back loose?

Answer to question #1 you walk away from tree it is your decision on when to turn loose within reason and judges discretion, remember judge is in control of cast at all times and you have to stay with the cast.
#2 you are going to be leading your dog until the other dog is heard and then cutting loose. This may entail walking back to where the dog was last heard and then in whatever direction the handler of that dog wants to go to listen for up to 8 minutes. After this 8 has expired if the dog struck in hasn't opened it will be minused and you turn yours loose.

Richard and Nathan this question was answered by Trevor from UKC on the first page. The school girls are those that couldn't accept the answer given. You being "comfortable" also allows for the judge to inform you enough is enough. Most of us would like a set time but as of now it is what it is as it has always been.

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08-17-2020 08:37 PM

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Ridgerunner1988
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Registered: May 2020
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UKC Told me that if you dont turn your dog loose in when the judge tells you, which is in 2 or 3 minutes, even if you dont feel comfortable and refuse the judge is to scratch you for unsportman like conduct. I dont see how they can do that because it's not a rule and an unwritten rule is not a rule. UKC Needs to work on that and put a time limit on it because it is going to cause problems during a hunt, everyone knows that there are judges who aren't as honest as they should be and lean toward one side more than they do another and they can use this rule to eliminate competition and scratch you from the hunt for unsportsmanlike like conduct. Myself I want to cut my dog back loose soon as possible whether winning or losing.

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yadkintar
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quote:
Originally posted by Ridgerunner1988
UKC Told me that if you dont turn your dog loose in when the judge tells you, which is in 2 or 3 minutes, even if you dont feel comfortable and refuse the judge is to scratch you for unsportman like conduct. I dont see how they can do that because it's not a rule and an unwritten rule is not a rule. UKC Needs to work on that and put a time limit on it because it is going to cause problems during a hunt, everyone knows that there are judges who aren't as honest as they should be and lean toward one side more than they do another and they can use this rule to eliminate competition and scratch you from the hunt for unsportsmanlike like conduct. Myself I want to cut my dog back loose soon as possible whether winning or losing.

I think maybe the rules committee was in uncharted waters and they were trying to be fair. Most haven�t dealt with the $$$ rules that are old hat to some of us. Were my stance is not as a judge so much but as a moh I have to know when I make a decision that I be as correct as I can be. Now I won�t scratch anybody but like Jen said enough is enough fair is fair and if you won�t cut when you have been given a fair chance to you can just stay on the leash till we make the next tree simple as that.

Tar

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08-17-2020 09:23 PM

Sgraves
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Registered: Dec 2017
Location:
Posts: 340

I viewed all these post an some made me wonder if grown men has to have help going to the bathroom. I would like to cut from the scored tree. That�s not possible at all times. Dog might be where guide is not suppose to be. Might be in an area where the whole cast doesn�t want to be. In most circumstances 30 seconds to a min is plenty. The problem is we have training issues. Take care of that at home. Normally common sense is nowhere to be found when things is not going a handlers way or cheating is on someone�s mind

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08-17-2020 10:04 PM

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novicane65
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Dec 2013
Location: Nichols Ny
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quote:
Originally posted by Allen / UKC
Trevor covered it correctly. I understand that some feel like we should have a pre-determined time or distance, but as Trevor mentioned, that proposal failed last time so we don't have one.

The other thing is, for all these years, it has not been an issue and worked quite well. It's one that requires using common sense and the handler being reasonable. If the handler is wanting to walk too far and beyond reason, the judge should step in.

Generally, when a handler wants to make an issue of it, it has more to do with their strategy than it does them being worried about the dog going back to the same tree. If someone needs to walk an unreasonable distance in order for the dog not to go back, they have a dog issue that is generally easily fixed during the week.

Personally, I want to be able to turn my dog back loose within ten feet of any tree. That may be less than many others but that's me. And if I can't, it will only be a matter of a little time and training on my part.

Same with dogs coming back to meet me. Going back to the same tree and coming off a tree to meet me have always been two of the only training issues I've found necessary to train for to eliminate potential issues in a nite hunt. Again, that's just me.

I didn't know Trevor worked with you at UKC. I'm fine with what he said. And I'm like you and some others, I don't really care how long a dog is on the leash as long as it's not mine. But without some type of expectation of how to enforce "comfortable" a judge can't make anyone re-cut. Maybe the handler isn't comfortable until he/she is 600 or more yards away.

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08-17-2020 10:26 PM

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JesseJ
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quote:
Originally posted by yadkintar
Your right like tar or hate him he don�t care. Buuuuuuut how many were unselfish enough to battle for you for 6 long years to get you the rules you got to enjoy ?

Because your just sheep you wait for sombody else to do the work then criticize them because Lordy goodness they know how it works.

I paid my dues I don�t owe y�all squat.

?
Tar

Tar
Get on this maybe six more years you can get a time or distance rule on this no leash lock? JesseJ

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08-17-2020 10:41 PM

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yadkintar
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quote:
Originally posted by JesseJ
Tar
Get on this maybe six more years you can get a time or distance rule on this no leash lock? JesseJ

It will be passed next time jens already on it !! I think we overwhelmed them lol. But it won�t be any different just use common sense a train your dog at home it�s not that hard of a concept.

Tar

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08-17-2020 10:46 PM

Dave Richards
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Posts: 5628

Tar

Dang, you mean the dog/s have to be trained? Therein may be the problem. Lol. Dave

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Richard Lambert
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Registered: Aug 2004
Location: Chattanooga, Tn
Posts: 22461

I haven't been around as long as some of you but in my limited experience I have never witnessed this being a problem on a cast. Y'all say this has been the rule for 40 yrs now? It sounds like it is only a problem on the message board.

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08-18-2020 12:36 AM

Dave Richards
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Mr. Lambert

Just how long has the no leash rule been in effect for UKC HUNTS? Dave

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08-18-2020 12:45 AM

yadkintar
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Re: Mr. Lambert

quote:
Originally posted by Dave Richards
Just how long has the no leash rule been in effect for UKC HUNTS? Dave

We was decifering being thatn that failed kc no longer was needen it weed justen use it.

And it�s a goodun

Tar

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08-18-2020 12:51 AM

Dave Richards
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Tar

Good rule, now if we can just train them dogs and handlers, we will have it made. Lol. Dave p.s. personally, I don't care if they lead their dog all night.

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08-18-2020 01:08 AM

yadkintar
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Re: Tar

quote:
Originally posted by Dave Richards
Good rule, now if we can just train them dogs and handlers, we will have it made. Lol. Dave p.s. personally, I don't care if they lead their dog all night.

Give me a call I will explain it not everybody needs to know the strategy.

Richards mixed up again that 40 rule stuff is on the other thread I think he needs an intervention Lol.

Tar

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08-18-2020 01:27 AM

shadinc
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Registered: Jun 2014
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Here's another long discussion that has me confused. My dogs are not trained to not go to a treed dog. When they here a dog bark they go to him. How far would I have to lead mine? If a dog is not broke from going to a treed dog, no distance within hearing is far enough.

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08-18-2020 01:35 AM

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yadkintar
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quote:
Originally posted by shadinc
Here's another long discussion that has me confused. My dogs are not trained to not go to a treed dog. When they here a dog bark they go to him. How far would I have to lead mine? If a dog is not broke from going to a treed dog, no distance within hearing is far enough.

Donald here is why the walk time recut time is important and needs to be put in next time. Walk time was 30 seconds in $$$$ kc I think a minute would be better the way the rule was let�s say you had a 1rst strike and 1rst tree plus you up other dogs are struck and treed deeper you walk your minute you opted to keep your dog on leash. Buuuuuuuut when you get closer the dogs are split first tree 2 dogs on it they got a coon they can recut you cannot because you opted keep your dog leashed on those trees so basically you leash locked yourself and cannot cut till you score the next tree. As it is in ukc when you get I would say 100 yards or one minute that�s good with me. If your dog backs coon or off game you don�t loose much and other than that nothing. But what I like if those dogs are deep I have an opertunity to get one behind them.

Tar

Last edited by yadkintar on 08-18-2020 at 02:31 AM

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08-18-2020 01:53 AM

Dave Richards
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Tar

Yes, it would be better if UKC specified a given time like one minute, but they did not and now it's up to the judge in every cast. We all know that this will not always bode well or be the same in every cast, it's just another one of those things that depends on the judge being fair to ALL. Dave

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08-18-2020 02:35 AM