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Reuben
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Puppy Imprinting or is it Epigenetics?

epigenetics is being studied all over the world by many scientist for all types of reasons...they are doing this by manipulating the cell environment, animal, or even human environment just to name a few...it could be by changing diet, temperature or just about anything they can dream of...

The scientists have discovered how environment manipulation creates changes and through these experiments they are learning and understanding many things depending on their field of practice...

Male mice have been exposed to extreme cold temperatures and then when bred to females the offspring stayed slender and this continued for three generations...the mice in the comfortable environment when bred their offspring became obese and developed diseases like diabetes and heart disease...

we sometimes say things like survival of the fittest, a part of evolution causes the the changes if a species is to survive...but now we can actually begin to understand there are other ways that can create these changes...Epigenetics probably has always been a part of evolution...we are in the early stages of understanding how it works through experimentation...

As we better understand we can manipulate the puppies environment to get better results as working dogs or as a minimum improve our changes...some of us call it socializing, some call it imprinting the pups...it seems it isn't much different than epigenetics just different names or descriptions...

Back during 9-11-2001 (911), during the twin tower episode their were pregnant women that were in that ordeal who developed PTSD...
When their babies were born they also developed mental issues similar to PTSD...

When we intentionally create a puppy imprinting scenario to make it a positive outcome it must be made enjoyable for the pup and not overdo it...otherwise, what we are trying to create will actually become a negative...and then we will wonder why the pup is not coming along well in his training...

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Old Post 11-17-2020 03:27 AM
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Reuben
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Registered: Nov 2011
Location: Freeport,TX
Posts: 1386

Imprinting

I have been reading about imprinting about different types of animals...most are legitimate studies by scientists...

I also read one that was written by a working dog kennel...they said two things that caught my interest...puppies between 8 and 10 weeks old tend to be fearful and this goes way back to the wolves and is a part of evolution...too bold wolf Cubs that venture off from the den could get lost or get eaten by other predators and these Cubs and traits would be eliminated from the gene pool...

This fear factor appears again between 5 and 6 months...I am thinking this has to do for becoming more cautious while learning to hunt, they need this fear factor to keep them from getting hurt on dangerous, such as preventing a broke jaw from a moose or elk kick etc...

Knowing these things can help us to a certain extent...we as humans manipulate how we breed dogs so these traits might not be as strong...but we should take this knowledge into consideration...

I can give two examples...

9 week old pup...way back when we were young my brother bought a large type Airedale...just a beautiful pup...the first thing he did was throw that pup in the bed of his truck and was headed to his friends house to show off his new pup...he didnít think the pup would jump out but he did, luckily he was leaving a stop sign so he was rolling slow...this Airedale never got over loading up...we had to physically pick up and load that 80 pound dog every time...where he planted his feet you couldnít budge him and he would shake like he was freezing to death...all because of that one incident...

At 6 months...

About 7 or 8 years ago I kept what I thought was the best pup...he had the looks and was smart...I brought him along on hunts and he was doing well...I knew he was going to make a good hog dog...on this particular morning he was in a heavy 4 or 5 acre briar patch trailing and looking for the pigs...when he found a few pigs bedded down they worked him over some and that pup came out of that patch and quit hunting after that...just that one incident was enough to ruin this pup...

So thinking back on this incident...if I had put in a bay pen and let him bay and gain confidence he more than likely would have been ok...

I gave this pup until 10 months to overcome this mistake I caused and then gave him to someone who thought they could fix this pup...

But I also see it this way...if this incident is enough to cause this issue with the pup I donít want the pup... I want the pup to have that mentality to be able to handle some a challenge of this type on account it wasnít that bad...i have had pups handle more in controlled environments...if I choose to breed that pup one day I would prefer the pup to possess the mental toughness I like...

We as humans breed for certain traits...we do not breed according to Mother Natureís laws and mother natureís laws vary according to conditions that apply to present locations in the wild...so maybe these traits donít apply as much but it is something to consider...

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Old Post 11-17-2020 02:49 PM
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5thgearwide
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This is a deep topic that I thoroughly enjoy. It provokes deep thought and multiple theories. Iíve always heard that if 1/4 of a litter turns out to be good dogs, then it was a good cross, though Iíve never bought into that. I believe we should be aiming for a higher average than that.

If the entire litter is raised in the same environment, same temps, same socialization, exposed to the same obstacles, given the same opportunities and so on, I feel that we would see a better percentage turning out.. You can take it one step further knowing what to expect in the 8-10 week and 5-6 month time frames where you would now expect the pups to be a little on the cautious side this is where you would be inspiring confidence, instead of testing the dogs grit. I think the main problem with ď1/4 of a litter turning outĒ is they are rarely all treated the same, and given the same opportunity, if not abused or neglected by some also

Iíve been exactly where you were in your second example. My question is this, do you think if the particular pup hadnít been exposed in that time frame, would it have still developed the fear later on? I kept 1/2 of the last 2 litters I raised. The earlier of the two litters I had my eye on the ugliest boldest pup in the bunch. I kept 2 others totaling 3 out of the 6. At 6 months one of the others was trailing and making bear trees with the big dogs, at 10 months the second pup (not my pick of the litter) started to make trees and click. At almost 16 months my pick had had the same amount of exposure to game, same truck time, same wood time, same trail time, seen nearly as many bear as the other 2, yet she kept getting more and more shy. I finally threw in the towel and called it quits when I saw that 4 of the 5 that were currently being hunted, were going above and beyond for their age.

After reading your post I now wonder if there was something I did without noticing in the 8-10 week or 5-6 month window to cause her setbacks, or was it bred into her. If you hadnít put your pup in that situation in that particular time frame, do you think it would have been a different outcome. You also say that itís probably not one you would breed to even if it had come out of it.... Iíll go one step further and ask if you think a lot more choice pups are eventually bred to, that may have cracked under pressure if they had been exposed to a tough situation in the wrong age window? These are all just questions in my head. One of the wisest men i know constantly tells me heís been studying hounds for years, and he still doesnít know any more about em now, than he did when he started. i think that about sums it up.

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Old Post 11-19-2020 04:55 AM
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Bruce m. Conkey
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Ruben this may now be a scientific experiment to prove the outcome. But I will share a secret with you. There have been a certain few in the dog world, handling many different breeds that understand this exact same thing. They never put a title on it. They were just known as DOGMEN. These men didn't and don't need scientist to spend years to prove to them that handling a puppy correctly is the secret to success. Only thing I feel is the scientist will think all puppies will respond to the correct environment. The DOGMEN know some would not and knew when to bury their losses. Scientist working off my tax dollar will never give up on a dog they can't fix. They will just start another study. Spend more money and confuse the minds of those already confused as to why they can't train a dog.

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Old Post 11-19-2020 12:55 PM
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yadkinriver
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Bruce what you said is 100% correct!

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Old Post 11-19-2020 01:37 PM
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johnny reb
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I know that the imprinting thing has been used on horses for years with success. I donít see where the same wouldnít apply to dogs.

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Old Post 11-19-2020 03:21 PM
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Bruce m. Conkey
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It most definitely works. But the people involved have follow a guideline. Many men from the past understood and followed the guideline, naturally. Just didn't realize in the modern era there would be titles and books for people to read, understand and try and follow. Kind of like people are looking for that natural dog. If dog could talk I think most would be looking for a natural DogMan to own them and train them. Lot less painful on both parties. Johnny there are a lot of genetic information from the Hors and Cow industry that shows Line and Family breeding gets results. I have never disputed that but the results have always been measurable or Tangible. In the dog world the results once you get past conformation and color. Generally are intangible and someones opinion. Find a handful of coon hunters that agree on style. Most find a style and then brag on it and don't have a clue how to maintain it. When their breeding produces a different style the then brag on it. Then all the style in the world starts to produce hounds that don't have coons in a tree and the breeders figure out a way to spin that into something positive. I feel the only difference in todays dogs and dogs from the past is. More hounds today are born with the ability to make a decent dog. But it takes the same type of DogMan sense to take a dog to to the top. Today or yesterday. 50 years ago there was a clear line dividing the good dogs for the sorry dogs and it was easier to figure out which ones needed to be culled. The men behind the dogs also know that needed to be done. Today more hounds have pedigrees from parents that have won thousands of dollars. Many of these no one can train. No one will cull. Because the glitter or its ancestors makes someone think they should sell it or own it. We live in a time where many including myself are collectors of hounds. Hounds collected and not given a chance or in the right environment to reach their full potential is a problem in this sport. This issue is second behind not culling one that should be culled.

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Old Post 11-19-2020 04:13 PM
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5thgearwide
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Conkey

What do you feel has caused the culling issue? Is it that the handlers have became soft? Or the fact that money has been put in the mix? Coon dogs of yesteryear were judged on the amount of furs they produced in a season, where as now furs are hardly worth the time. Has this played a role in the hound handling communities inability to cull? Or do we just no longer understand that not all dogs make it?

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Old Post 11-20-2020 12:33 AM
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shadinc
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Years ago a lot of dogs were culled because they wouldn't tree. Now a lot of them should be culled because they tree too much. It's easier to sell a slick treer than a non treer.

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Old Post 11-20-2020 12:47 AM
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Reuben
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quote:
Originally posted by 5thgearwide
This is a deep topic that I thoroughly enjoy. It provokes deep thought and multiple theories. Iíve always heard that if 1/4 of a litter turns out to be good dogs, then it was a good cross, though Iíve never bought into that. I believe we should be aiming for a higher average than that.
If the entire litter is raised in the same environment, same temps, same socialization, exposed to the same obstacles, given the same opportunities and so on, I feel that we would see a better percentage turning out.. You can take it one step further knowing what to expect in the 8-10 week and 5-6 month time frames where you would now expect the pups to be a little on the cautious side this is where you would be inspiring confidence, instead of testing the dogs grit. I think the main problem with ď1/4 of a litter turning outĒ is they are rarely all treated the same, and given the same opportunity, if not abused or neglected by some also

Iíve been exactly where you were in your second example. My question is this, do you think if the particular pup hadnít been exposed in that time frame, would it have still developed the fear later on? I kept 1/2 of the last 2 litters I raised. The earlier of the two litters I had my eye on the ugliest boldest pup in the bunch. I kept 2 others totaling 3 out of the 6. At 6 months one of the others was trailing and making bear trees with the big dogs, at 10 months the second pup (not my pick of the litter) started to make trees and click. At almost 16 months my pick had had the same amount of exposure to game, same truck time, same wood time, same trail time, seen nearly as many bear as the other 2, yet she kept getting more and more shy. I finally threw in the towel and called it quits when I saw that 4 of the 5 that were currently being hunted, were going above and beyond for their age.

After reading your post I now wonder if there was something I did without noticing in the 8-10 week or 5-6 month window to cause her setbacks, or was it bred into her.



5thgearwide, good post...

In my opinion the 10 week and 6 month fear factor is good information to have so when the handlers are socializing the pups that they are making sure the tasks for the pups are those that instills confidence and not create shyness or fear...we can instill too much confidence in the pup during during sessions to where they think they can handle most any game even in the 6 month time frame...l made that mistake many years ago and I did it on purpose...I had my pups thinking they could stretch out any pig...they were loaded with confidence and the first time they encountered a big boar in the woods they took a beating before they realized they bit off more than they could chew, luckily they survived the incident...I still work them the same and then at a later date I have them bay a larger pig so they can learn to respect a bigger hog before they go to the woods...

I agree with you on the 25 percent of the pups making it is a low number...I believe itís low for other reasons as well...pups should be tested for natural inclinations for winding, finding, how they find etc...for me it serves three purposes I can think of right now but there are other reasons when done right...

1. working on imprinting...which is a form of training and socializing

2. so we can see how they work and think...this will be a part of who they are

3. I am looking for the natural winders, finders and hunterís etc...etc...

It is my opinion that to consistently breed top hunting dogs one must breed from a family of hunting dogs and they must be excellent hunting dogs from at least 3 generations ...I once had a line of dogs of this type and I had a quite a few good pups from each litter...

I also believe when we breed to top dogs that arenít related you will get some good dogs but the consistency wonít be there and sprinkle in a few dogs that donít have what it takes and then the pups that make it is less than 25 percent...have had some of these too and have culled whole litters...not because they were all that bad but I didnít like them for one reason or another...the hardest thing in the hog dog world is finding a great line of dogs...

I also wonít work a dog very long...it doesnít take long to find out if they are going to have it or not...just remember...the effort we put into the dogs to make hunting dogs out of them will gravitate towards the following generations...we must hold ourselves to a higher standard...

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Training dogs is not so much about quantity, it's more about timing, and the right situations...After that it's up to the dog....A hunting dog is born...

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Old Post 11-20-2020 02:21 AM
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Reuben
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Re: .

quote:
Originally posted by Bruce m. Conkey
Ruben this may now be a scientific experiment to prove the outcome. But I will share a secret with you. There have been a certain few in the dog world, handling many different breeds that understand this exact same thing. They never put a title on it. They were just known as DOGMEN. These men didn't and don't need scientist to spend years to prove to them that handling a puppy correctly is the secret to success. Only thing I feel is the scientist will think all puppies will respond to the correct environment. The DOGMEN know some would not and knew when to bury their losses. Scientist working off my tax dollar will never give up on a dog they can't fix. They will just start another study. Spend more money and confuse the minds of those already confused as to why they can't train a dog.


I donít think there are many scientific research papers on the dog subject...especially on the hunting dog...most of the things I like talking about are more on the theoretical side of it...the things most folks donít like discussing...many donít agree with this thought process but I do believe in casting seeds...I learn from human studies as well as from mice and most anywhere else and connect the dots...I will venture to say some dog men can see a hunting dog just by watching a dogs demeanor and thatís if the dog hasnít been ruined...

the two things that really got my interest up were two articles back in the 1970ís

One was on testing, culling and breeding German Short Hairs in in East Germany...I think even the culls were good hunting dogs they just couldnít be bred unless the met that standard...it was a great article but in todayís time it wouldnít be published...

The next article was in a hunting magazine written when hunting magazines were really good...this man was writing about hunting the female when she was pregnant...that while she was excited and barking on track her internal system was producing all kinds of emotions and hormones including adrenaline...and more so when she was fighting the game and that all these reactions and emotions weíre somehow transferred to the pups...at first I thought this dude done lost it...but as I read more I started to see the light...these two articles opened my eyes to another way of seeing things in the dog world...back then we couldnít talk about line breeding nor much less inbreeding among many dog men...they said it caused deformities and many would be born with mental abnormalities...

we can be dog men but we cannot know enough...l believe dog men and women have that feel that sometimes not even they can explain...they have an eye for a dog and just know how to train them or when to cull...

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Old Post 11-20-2020 03:47 AM
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River Birch Run
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I've done a lot of research on my self the last 20 some yrs. Yrs ago I found a study on fox I thought was very interesting. It made me change my way of thinking in ways. https://evolution-outreach.biomedce...2052-018-0090-x

As far as the culling goes, honestly unless it's for health reasons or aggression issues it's not needed. The problem is the trainers, or lack there of. We live in a world of instant gradifatcation. If it don't come easy or right now, most guys write them off as a cull. My 70 yr old mother can turn any pup, or dog into a coondog that can compete with the very best. Not because she trains them to be coondogs but rather she gives them the chance to be a coondog. She walks 2 miles everyday, no matter the weather. She walks through tiny patch woods, fence rows, open farm field (with crops) and RR thickets. She takes a pack of hounds with her. Every pup she has ever raised turned into nice solid coondogs. It's simply the fact that they are in the woods around game. They learn to track and tree on there own. She don't brake out the shock collar till they start to run deer on site. She puts a stop to that pretty fast. She has raised whole litters that were coondogs. She always takes a pup out of my litters and they always start running and treeing months before mine. I do all the drags and cut out coon and ground work trainning on my pups. I get them to the woods at least 4 days a week. But hers are always ahead of mine. When I have one that I don't think will make it I take it to her. In less than 3 months she has them cranking. All I have to do is fine tune them. All these "culls" have it in them it's the trainers that don't.

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Old Post 11-20-2020 02:19 PM
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River Birch Run
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One thing I read a while back talked about how testosterone and estrogen is past from fetus in the womb. So if you have a female in between several males in the womb they will be born with and continue to produce more testosterone than the normal female. Same goes for males among females born with more estrogen. This can lead to dogs with agression or shyness.

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Old Post 11-20-2020 02:27 PM
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pamjohnson
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quote:
Originally posted by River Birch Run
I've done a lot of research on my self the last 20 some yrs. Yrs ago I found a study on fox I thought was very interesting. It made me change my way of thinking in ways. https://evolution-outreach.biomedce...2052-018-0090-x

As far as the culling goes, honestly unless it's for health reasons or aggression issues it's not needed. The problem is the trainers, or lack there of. We live in a world of instant gradifatcation. If it don't come easy or right now, most guys write them off as a cull. My 70 yr old mother can turn any pup, or dog into a coondog that can compete with the very best. Not because she trains them to be coondogs but rather she gives them the chance to be a coondog. She walks 2 miles everyday, no matter the weather. She walks through tiny patch woods, fence rows, open farm field (with crops) and RR thickets. She takes a pack of hounds with her. Every pup she has ever raised turned into nice solid coondogs. It's simply the fact that they are in the woods around game. They learn to track and tree on there own. She don't brake out the shock collar till they start to run deer on site. She puts a stop to that pretty fast. She has raised whole litters that were coondogs. She always takes a pup out of my litters and they always start running and treeing months before mine. I do all the drags and cut out coon and ground work trainning on my pups. I get them to the woods at least 4 days a week. But hers are always ahead of mine. When I have one that I don't think will make it I take it to her. In less than 3 months she has them cranking. All I have to do is fine tune them. All these "culls" have it in them it's the trainers that don't.

this is one opinion. One mans treasure is another man's trash. I guess it depends on standards.

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Old Post 11-20-2020 02:32 PM
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River Birch Run
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I define a "coondog" as one that gets treed fast, stays treed all nite if needed to. Not trashy, and 90% accurate. 1st strike, 1st tree type that does not pack, but will let other dogs tree with them. In thick coon or thin coon they get the job done, in ANY part of the country. A real coondog you can take of the chain it don't matter if its been a yr since it's been cut loose it will still look better in the woods than the avg dog thats being hunted every nite. But I have high standards. They have to be all of that and not do things I don't like as well. It don't make them less of a coondog I just don't like it. I. E. Bark too much on track, or sit down to tree, or all chop track and tree. And many, many more things.

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Old Post 11-20-2020 03:00 PM
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Preacher Tom
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quote:
Originally posted by River Birch Run
I define a "coondog" as one that gets treed fast, stays treed all nite if needed to. Not trashy, and 90% accurate. 1st strike, 1st tree type that does not pack, but will let other dogs tree with them. In thick coon or thin coon they get the job done, in ANY part of the country. A real coondog you can take of the chain it don't matter if its been a yr since it's been cut loose it will still look better in the woods than the avg dog thats being hunted every nite. But I have high standards. They have to be all of that and not do things I don't like as well. It don't make them less of a coondog I just don't like it. I. E. Bark too much on track, or sit down to tree, or all chop track and tree. And many, many more things.


Are you saying that every dog your mother has trained fits the above description?

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Old Post 11-20-2020 03:28 PM
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5thgearwide
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I come from a farming background, genetics have always intrigued me. Genetics have come so far in cattle that I can artificially breed a group of 12 heifers to 12 different straws. And if they are sexed semen you can just about guarantee the color, sex, birth weight, weaning weight, yearling weight, and a lot more. Yet when it comes to hounds, (particularly big game hounds in my standpoint) you can breed for size, conformation, more than likely youíll get the same mannerisms as the parents in several pups.... but you canít breed for brains, heart, drive, and grit, in my humble opinion. Coon dogs are a little different than the hounds Iím raising that are geared more for bear. A dog can look like a million bucks on a running bear that trees, but if that same dog wonít stick with a mean bear on the ground, itís a cull. Some dogs have it, and some donít. Iíd like to think that every dog I ever raise will make it, but I just donít see that happening and Iím willing to accept that they donít all make it. Thatís the main difference I see in the big game hounds vs the coon hounds, not trying to stir the pot or start a debate but if I have a dog that will blow up on the rig, start a cold track the right way, trail it up, jump the bear, run to catch.... but then tucks tail when the bear decides itíd rather fight than climb. Then that dog in my opinion is lacking a few things that it takes to ďmake a bear dogĒ. Hereís where I normally light the fuse. I can take that same dog and keep putting him on coon tracks, and heíll make a good coon dog, because a coon doesnít weigh 250 pounds and decide at some point that it wants to kill you, instead of climbing. Some people may be able to make a top dog out of every pup they ever handle, and my hats off to em. But until Iím able to do that Iíll continue to breed best to best, and cull those that donít make the cut.

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Old Post 11-20-2020 05:27 PM
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Reuben
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Nov 2011
Location: Freeport,TX
Posts: 1386

5thgearwide

I have a friend that managed a big ranch and he used to tell me all that breeding information you talk about...pretty impressive for way back then and even for now...

Well you seem to know your bear dogs and my learning is from talking to many bear dog men...

This is what was told to me by those I thought had the most experience with hog and bear...and these two things they all said...

A good bear dog will make a good hog dog...a good hog dog might make a good bear dog or it might not...and a bear dog might not respect a big boar...

I bought a few other plotts out of bear dogs that were converted to hog dogs and they were a little weak on casting, they just didnít have what it took to find...not even in fresh sign...
I was thinking maybe too much emphasis was put on starting them from a track or from a feed bucket and possibly failed to see if the dogs had the ability to locate as a good Plott hound should...

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Old Post 11-21-2020 12:37 AM
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5thgearwide
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Registered: Dec 2017
Location: VA
Posts: 70

Reuben

I can agree with everything youíve said in your last post. I also think that the casting you speak of, or the inability to do so, all coms back to the foundation of the hound. I try to start all my hounds on coon. I feel that it teaches them how to cast, strike, trail, and tree. Bear are getting to be thick enough that here lately some of the dogs have skipped the coon phase and went straight to bear which is fine by me, but I have seen some negative effects. I also believe in putting the young dogs down first on a hot rig and giving them the chance to start a track before I put a veteran on it. I think this is one way you can avoid the piggybacking or ďme-tooingĒ that is way too easy to start as a habit. I also think that guys that constantly run off of bait can essentially ďtake the huntĒ out of a dog or the free casting that you speak of. Sure those dogs might look good in that situation and you can show that youíre catching game but itís usually not hard to pick one out thatís been repeatedly hunted off bait, they donít know how to look, because theyíve never been forced to. Very similar to a spoiled child.

I think that like the majority of things in this world, the foundation is one of the most important, yet underrated and under appreciated phases. I expect a bear dog to free cast, rig, road, strike, trail, run to catch, stay with a mean one, or stay treed as long as it takes, and to do it with or without help. Part of that comes from the breeding, part from the foundation, and i believe the rest is ample opportunity and necessary correction. These dogs are a lot more rare than most realize. There are bear packs, and there are bear dogs. My goal is to have a pack of bear dogs.

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Old Post 11-21-2020 01:57 AM
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Reuben
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Registered: Nov 2011
Location: Freeport,TX
Posts: 1386

Sounds like we think the same and like the same type of dogs...

The foundation is very important as is selecting and keeping the absolute best pups...otherwise why do it...and of those breed those that rise to the top...these types
are what make up the foundation...

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5thgearwide
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Reuben

A wise man told me ďGood dogs are never for sale, but sometimes they can be boughtĒ took me a little while to understand what he meant, but it makes sense now. Raise the best, build them up, give them a fair chance, and let instinct do the rest.

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CONRAD FRYAR
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Registered: Jan 2004
Location: Northwest Georgia
Posts: 1458

So many factors 😊lol
Personality traits also fall into line here, all the talent in the world and no mental toughness, fault?
We will never create robots that are perfect because of all these factors, a good breeder will make good crosses, put them in the right environment, cull the problems and pick the cream of the crop.
As a breeder I see way more problems today, with trainers than I do breeding😁
People leave them in a pen then expect presto!
Never work on personality issues, or quit at the least little thing,blows my mind how they think a top hound is made?
Nothing in this World is perfect, take hard work and effort to keep top hounds.

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Bruce m. Conkey
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Registered: May 2016
Location: Palatka, FL
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.

Our dogs are no different than our dinner tables. We have got to the point that the genetics are there in most hounds. With with proper handling, care, and experiences. They will make some type of coonhound.

The same goes for that apple pie or pumpkin pie we will be eating next week. The same ingredients in that pie will be served all across the nation. The same ingredients that Mom used. Most of the pies WILL NOT turn out like Moms. Will not taste as good, will not be as sweet and will just not be the same. An apple is an apple, flour is flour, sugar is sugar. Then why the difference. Mom knew what she was doing. Dogmen know what they are doing.

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River Birch Run
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Registered: Jun 2007
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Posts: 1136

quote:
Originally posted by Preacher Tom
Are you saying that every dog your mother has trained fits the above description?


Yes as far as a "coondog" even her collie and mutts she has had lol. They didn't all fit my style, but you could hunt them against any dog and feel really good about your chances.

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Triple K Kennel
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Feb 2013
Location: Indiana
Posts: 3648

quote:
Originally posted by CONRAD FRYAR
So many factors 😊lol
Personality traits also fall into line here, all the talent in the world and no mental toughness, fault?
We will never create robots that are perfect because of all these factors, a good breeder will make good crosses, put them in the right environment, cull the problems and pick the cream of the crop.
As a breeder I see way more problems today, with trainers than I do breeding😁
People leave them in a pen then expect presto!
Never work on personality issues, or quit at the least little thing,blows my mind how they think a top hound is made?
Nothing in this World is perfect, take hard work and effort to keep top hounds.




Exactly.....!!!!
Most give up way too early on a Pup.
Just look on this Board at all of them 4-sale.
Some will burn a Pup up....and they dont have a Clue as to what happened....😉
A Few will Win and think they know it all....from Breeding, Training & having all the right answers......🙄😏
In reality all they have is an average Dog with an average Mouth.
Tim

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