UKC Forums - scratch or with draw ?

	UKC Website :: Hunting Ops :: All-Breed Sports :: Registration :: UKC Online Store

UKC Forums : Powered by vBulletin version 2.3.0

UKC Forums > Departments > UKC Coonhounds > scratch or with draw ?

Pages (2): [1] 2 »

Last Thread Next Thread

Author

Thread

Okie Dawg
UKC Forum Member

Registered: May 2009
Location: Tonkawa Oklahoma
Posts: 5587

scratch or with draw ?

I was in a hunt the other night and a couple guys scratched there own dog and took them out of the hunt. Shouldn't they had just with drawn there dog? One done it becouse his dog had lost his voice and the other done it becouse his ws treeing on a possom. It was an open regesterd cast.

__________________
UNITED WE STAND DIVIDED WE FALL
Grady Jarvis
808 N. Main St.
Tonkawa Okla. 74653
580-628-0507
CH 'PR' Grady's Dark Woods Waylon -Bluetic

NITECH 'PR' Grady's Insane Tinker Bell (Tink) - Treeing walker --Okla. State Hunt open redg. winner

'PR' Grady's Barley - Treeing Walker

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

10-18-2010 04:53 AM

Click here to Send Okie Dawg a Private Message

lockednks
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Feb 2009
Location: Wichita, KS
Posts: 403

Grady, whats the difference? Seems like it ends up being all the same on the score card...

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

10-18-2010 05:33 AM

Click here to Send lockednks a Private Message

DeerCoonhunter
Banned

Registered: Oct 2010
Location:
Posts: 23

Should not of been allowed to scratch there own dog. They should have with drawn their dog and filled out the card respectively on the left side of the card. Everybody intials the scores at that time of entry. Then they need to stay with the cast and finish hunting.

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

10-18-2010 12:58 PM

Click here to Send DeerCoonhunter a Private Message

Okie Dawg
UKC Forum Member

Registered: May 2009
Location: Tonkawa Oklahoma
Posts: 5587

quote:
Originally posted by lockednks
Grady, whats the difference? Seems like it ends up being all the same on the score card...

If you get scratched it is possible to get written up and even bared from UKC and they done nothing wrong. So it looks a lot better on the card to just with draw.

DeerCoonHunter, they did sight and intial the card and stayed with the cast and help finish. They din nothing wrong and was a pleasure to hunt with. I just think they may had chosen the wrong word scratch instead of withdraw and I am wondering if it will hurt them in any way. I told our hunting director there was no problem and they just scratched themselves so there would be no problem.

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

10-18-2010 02:35 PM

josh
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Los Angeles, MN
Posts: 4236

For all practical purposes withdraw and scratch are the same thing.

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

10-18-2010 03:22 PM

Click here to Send josh a Private Message

DeerCoonhunter
Banned

Registered: Oct 2010
Location:
Posts: 23

quote:
Originally posted by josh
For all practical purposes withdraw and scratch are the same thing.

They are not!!!!!!! Where do get this from????? If its the same thing then get rid of one of them............ You dont with draw for dogs fighting you get scratched and then its reported. This is the difference....If you were to with draw a dog for fighting then you could possibly escape the write up.
You have a problem with filling out the score card on the left side Josh don't you ? you have argued this before, just follow the rules.

Last edited by DeerCoonhunter on 10-18-2010 at 03:32 PM

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

10-18-2010 03:28 PM

josh
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Los Angeles, MN
Posts: 4236

Where did you get scratched for fighting?

There are many reasons a dog or handler can be scratched.

By withdrawing you are essentially scratching your dog.

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

10-18-2010 03:33 PM

DeerCoonhunter
Banned

Registered: Oct 2010
Location:
Posts: 23

quote:
Originally posted by josh

Where did you get scratched for fighting?

There are many reasons a dog or handler can be scratched.

By withdrawing you are essentially scratching your dog.

Fighting is just one reason for getting scratched your right. You are so worong. And what the heck do you mean by your question ?????? It was an example on my part the difference of scratch and withdraw.

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

10-18-2010 03:39 PM

josh
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Los Angeles, MN
Posts: 4236

Ok partner, I'll type real slow for you.

The left side of the card only needs to be filled out if a cast member is leaving the cast. If they withdraw/scratch they are still a voting member of the cast.

At UKC zones if you WITHDRAW on Friday night you wont hunt on Sat. because you SCRATCHED your dog.

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

10-18-2010 03:45 PM

DeerCoonhunter
Banned

Registered: Oct 2010
Location:
Posts: 23

quote:
Originally posted by josh
Ok partner, I'll type real slow for you.

The left side of the card only needs to be filled out if a cast member is leaving the cast. If they withdraw/scratch they are still a voting member of the cast.

At UKC zones if you WITHDRAW on Friday night you wont hunt on Sat. because you SCRATCHED your dog.

Well Pal maybe you shouldn't type so fast !!!!!
becasue you are required to fill out the left side of the card and stil participate in still be a voting member. When you withdraw.

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

10-18-2010 04:12 PM

josh
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Los Angeles, MN
Posts: 4236

You do know that UKC will eventually ban your IP and you wont even be able to read this board, right?

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

10-18-2010 04:19 PM

runnin rebels
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jan 2006
Location: mn
Posts: 513

deer coonhunter

"you are required to fill out the left side of the card and stil participate in still be a voting member. When you withdraw."

What do you do if I withdraw/or scratch myself however you want to label it. I quit. And I refuse to stay with the cast or fill out and initial the left side?

__________________
GRNITECH PR. RUNNIN REBEL TCSC OLD BLUE 2012 World Hunt Qualified / Top 20
NITECH PR. THE RUNNIN REBEL COWBOY JR DOG 2012 World Hunt Qualified

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

10-18-2010 04:50 PM

Click here to Send runnin rebels a Private Message

DeerCoonhunter
Banned

Registered: Oct 2010
Location:
Posts: 23

quote:
Originally posted by runnin rebels
deer coonhunter

"you are required to fill out the left side of the card and stil participate in still be a voting member. When you withdraw."

What do you do if I withdraw/or scratch myself however you want to label it. I quit. And I refuse to stay with the cast or fill out and initial the left side?

Go back to club and fill out a mis conduct ffom. Which can not be refused, and then a hearing is held by the club and a panel decides if someone committed a mis conduct. By refusing to sign is considered "fasifying a scorecard".

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

10-18-2010 04:54 PM

JiM
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Sep 2010
Location: New Paris, Indiana
Posts: 7076

You do not intial the left side of the card when you are scratched or withdraw, you only do that when you LEAVE THE CAST. Scratch/withdraw, it is the same thing. Your dog is no longer in the hunt but the handler is still a cast member unless he/she leaves the cast.

Okie, you cannot be barred because you dog was scratched.

Refusing to sign the card is not falsifing, it is not anything except that it gets you scratched from the cast.

__________________
UKC Nite Champion Stylish Harry's Trixie - 2017 World Hunt Qualified - Owners - Sizemore/Martin
PKC CH/UKC GrNtCh Stylish Kate - 9/12/08 to 9/23/2016 R.I.P - Owners Sizemore/Martin
AKC/UKC NtCh Sizemore's Timber Jam Jeff 5/2/2000 to 1/22/2012 R.I.P.
AKC/UKC GrNtCh Sizemore's Timber Jam Jessi 12/21/04 to 1/21/2011 R.I.P.

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

10-18-2010 04:57 PM

Click here to Send JiM a Private Message

DeerCoonhunter
Banned

Registered: Oct 2010
Location:
Posts: 23

quote:
Originally posted by JiM
You do not intial the left side of the card when you are scratched or withdraw, you only do that when you LEAVE THE CAST. Scratch/withdraw, it is the same thing. Your dog is no longer in the hunt but the handler is still a cast member unless he/she leaves the cast.

Okie, you cannot be barred because you dog was scratched.

Refusing to sign the card is not falsifing, it is not anything except that it gets you scratched from the cast.

I dis agree with your interpetation of this, I would like to see where is says you do not have to intial and record the scores when you with draw. Scratched / withdraw are not he same, When nite Ch trees a off game do you withdraw or do you get scratched ??
Also when your dog gets in trouble like fight at the tree do you get to withdraw your dog, No you get scrtched. It states in the rules that you are not allowed to withdraw your dog to avoid being scratched for a dog fight. I am sorry I do not agree.

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

10-18-2010 05:07 PM

josh
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Los Angeles, MN
Posts: 4236

If you WITHDRAW you are SCRATCHED.

It dosent work the other way around, you cant get SCRATCHED then decide to WITHDRAW.

Was the first grade difficult for you?

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

10-18-2010 05:24 PM

DeerCoonhunter
Banned

Registered: Oct 2010
Location:
Posts: 23

quote:
Originally posted by josh
If you WITHDRAW you are SCRATCHED.

It dosent work the other way around, you cant get SCRATCHED then decide to WITHDRAW.

Was the first grade difficult for you?

Someone with the authority of the rules needs to answer this, and to answer your question no it was not !

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

10-18-2010 05:34 PM

JiM
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Sep 2010
Location: New Paris, Indiana
Posts: 7076

[QUOTE]Originally posted by DeerCoonhunter
[B]I dis agree with your interpetation of this, I would like to see where is says you do not have to intial and record the scores when you with draw.

Page 99 in the Advisor states that failure to intial the boxes in the left column IS NOT a reason to disqualify the card.

No one is required to sign anything on the card. But if you don't sign the card at the end of the hunt, you are scratched. (Rule13)
If you decline/refuse/forget to intial the left side when you leave the cast before the hunt is completed, NOTHING happens.
If you sign the card before the hunt is completed, THEN you have falsified the card because signing the scorecard (as opposed to intialing the left side) is the act of certifing the cast hunted exactly 120 minutes and obviously, you cannot certify that if you leave the cast before the hunt is over. That is why you should INTIAL the left side when you leave, but it is not required.

Bottom line? You only intial the left side if you leave the cast before the hunt is complete, you do not sign the card if you don't complete the hunt.
You SIGN the card when the hunt time is completed reguardless of whether your dog completed the hunt or not.

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

10-18-2010 06:14 PM

DeerCoonhunter
Banned

Registered: Oct 2010
Location:
Posts: 23

quote:
Originally posted by JiM
[QUOTE]Originally posted by DeerCoonhunter
[B]I dis agree with your interpetation of this, I would like to see where is says you do not have to intial and record the scores when you with draw.

Page 99 in the Advisor states that failure to intial the boxes in the left column IS NOT a reason to disqualify the card.

No one is required to sign anything on the card. But if you don't sign the card at the end of the hunt, you are scratched. (Rule13)
If you decline/refuse/forget to intial the left side when you leave the cast before the hunt is completed, NOTHING happens.
If you sign the card before the hunt is completed, THEN you have falsified the card because signing the scorecard (as opposed to intialing the left side) is the act of certifing the cast hunted exactly 120 minutes and obviously, you cannot certify that if you leave the cast before the hunt is over. That is why you should INTIAL the left side when you leave, but it is not required.

Bottom line? You only intial the left side if you leave the cast before the hunt is complete, you do not sign the card if you don't complete the hunt.
You SIGN the card when the hunt time is completed reguardless of whether your dog completed the hunt or not.

Ok Thank you.

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

10-18-2010 06:41 PM

Jack Bingham
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Aug 2006
Location: Montour IOWA
Posts: 1714

you do not have to fill out the left side of the score card or initial it either if you leave the cast.

__________________
JACK BINGHAM
MOSQUITO CREEK REDBONES
641-750-4457

A screw up on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part.

HOME OF

GRNitech PKC Platinum CH PR Mosquito Creek Danno's Buggs 2018 American Redbone Champion. 2019 World Champion Female. 2020 PURINA NATIONALS CH.

GRNITE CH Mosquito Creek Hank 2020 top 100

NITE CH SILVER CH Jersey Girl 2020 Top 100

GRNITE CH SILVER CH. Wipeout Small Pox 2020 Top 100

NITECH River Valley Rain

R.I.P.
GRNitech PKC CH GRCH Awesome Mosquito Crk. Lick 2016 World Champion Redbone Female

R.I.P.
DUAL GRAND PR ANDREWS MOSQUITO CREEK GO MAN SAM DNA-P

R.I.P.
GRNITECH PR Thunder creek Squeller 2cast wins NRCA. 4 cast wins AKC qualified for AKC 2009,2010,2011 world hunt. Qualified for 2008,2009 and 2010 UKC worlds. World Finalist at the 2010 UKC Worlds. Money won in PKC

R.I.P. NITECH PR Faith's Image ( 3-UKC 1st) cast win at NRCA 6TH AT ARCA Money won in PKC

Look us up on Facebook: Mosquito Creek Redbones

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

10-18-2010 07:36 PM

Click here to Send Jack Bingham a Private Message

oklared
UKC Forum Member

Registered: May 2005
Location: oklahoma
Posts: 5035

Scratched or withdrawn except for fighting or attempting to fight what difference does it make, why even discuse the issue?

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

10-18-2010 07:43 PM

Click here to Send oklared a Private Message

Okie Dawg
UKC Forum Member

Registered: May 2009
Location: Tonkawa Oklahoma
Posts: 5587

quote:
Originally posted by oklared
Scratched or withdrawn except for fighting or attempting to fight what difference does it make, why even discuse the issue?

That was the originall question. I thought one was voluteer withdraw and scratch was a forced out of the hunt. I know for a scratch you can get written up. I know it says you can't withdraw to keep from getting scratched. There for there has to be some differance. Just wondering what the differance is. So if I am ever in a cast like the other night I will know the differance.
After this discustion I would like to see Allen or one of the UKC guys advise.

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

10-18-2010 10:58 PM

BIG$BLUES
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Mar 2009
Location: Oklahoma
Posts: 1454

WOW!!!!!!!!!!

__________________
Travis Duvall owned and operated

NTCH DUVALL'S BIG MONEY SLIDDER

Home of those with drive!
Speak the truth it will set you free.

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

10-18-2010 11:03 PM

Click here to Send BIG$BLUES a Private Message

Jack Bingham
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Aug 2006
Location: Montour IOWA
Posts: 1714

quote:
Originally posted by BIG$BLUES
WOW!!!!!!!!!!

My thoughts exactly this is why people don't have fun in the hunts to many people thinking they know the rules ( BUT DON'T) and then want to argue about something petty. To many internet coonhunters.

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

10-18-2010 11:17 PM

Wildcountry
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Apr 2006
Location: Southwest Virginia
Posts: 360

The only Scratched that is a wright up would be for fighting if it is not plain Scratched for fighting or SF they will not be wrote up for it . if I am wrong let me know thanks.

MIKE

__________________
Wildcountry English Kennels
Mike Stevens (276) 496 7085
Kris 'Kricket' Stevens (276) 780 4050

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

10-18-2010 11:30 PM