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mikehurt
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jun 2004
Location: kansas
Posts: 389

Nutrition/ Dog food

With all the arguments about dog food and dog nutrition I decided to research the subject a little more in depth.

Let me start by saying that I am by no means an expert. I had some animal nutrition courses while attending Kansas State University, but was never sober enough that early in the morning to retain much.
While the amount of info you can find regarding this subject can be overwhelming, I did find a few things that I found interesting.

1. A firm stool does not reflect on the quality or digestiblity of diet. Dog foods "good" and "bad" put ingredients in their product that slow down digestion. By slowing down the digestion, the food spends more time in the intestine, and therefore is more "firm" and "shaped". Just because the stool is solid does not mean the dog is getting "all the good" out of the feed.

2.The first five ingredients on the ingredient list on the bag is a good indication of what we are actually feeding. In the past I have thought I was feeding a "meat based" feed when it was actually a "corn" or "vegetable" based feed.


The following chart and other info can be found at http://www.thepetcenter.com/imtop/nbasics.html

Table #1 - PROTEIN DIGESTIBILITY LIST

Egg whites 1.00
Muscle meats (chicken, beef, lamb) .92
Organ meats (kidney, liver, heart) .90
Milk, cheese .89
Fish .75
Soy .75
Rice .72
Oats .66
Yeast .63
Wheat .60
Corn .54
(Note: Values in table are approximate, as they have been taken from several nutrition sources and personal communications with nutrition experts


What does this mean? I don't know. But it did cause me to look a little closer into what I was feeding. I want to feed as good a diet as I can. Also there are feeds out there that I have fed in the past, or have considered feeding at one time or another, that I would not feed now on a bet. I don't want to cause arguments. I just found this info interesting. Thanks. Mike.

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Old Post 12-28-2008 04:21 PM
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JiM
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It's a good thing you don't have to be a genius to know if a dog looks good and can work hard because it you did, my dogs would be in trouble.
They are just dogs. They aren't our children or our family members, they don't sue us if they don't get fed the best. Fact is, most of us got higher priorities than the dog. So we feed what we can afford to feed them. Most aren't gonna let the family go without so they can feed the hound Eucanuba. My dogfood costs $21.00 per 50# bag. My dogs are fat in the winter, they have shiny coats and they don't quit in sub-freezing temps. That is how I determine a good dogfood.

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Old Post 12-28-2008 04:42 PM
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Plottluvr
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Registered: Dec 2006
Location: Two Rivers WI
Posts: 996

quote:
Originally posted by JiM

They are just dogs. They aren't our children or our family members



Wow.

My dog is a member of the family and I feed her as well as I can. I wouldn't feed my dog Eucanuba if you paid me to. I've seen what they do in their "feeding tests" and it sickens me. Whether I have one dog or 10 they're all family members and are treated as such. Go ahead and call it a "girl" thing but i've seen plenty of tough guys cry over their dogs.

Mikehurt....Thanks for the info. You're right...garbage in means garbage out.

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Old Post 12-28-2008 05:03 PM
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Geminite
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Dec 2005
Location: Ohio
Posts: 3063

That is good info, thanks.

But, I tend to agree with JiM. Don't get me wrong, I love my hounds and I try to feed them the best I can afford and keep them well cared for. But, I wouldn't let my family go without just so I could feed a high priced dog food. The fact is that most good feeds aren't much different other than a few bucks/#'s and if your dog is in good health, whats the difference?

Example: I can get Diamond Naturals Chicken & Rice for $22.99 per 40# bag.

I can get Purina Pro Plan Chicken & Rice for $32.99 per 37.5 # bag.

Roughly, we go through one 40# bag of feed in one week. That is saving me $10 a week, $40 a month. That's $2,080 a year.

I have fed both feeds, and am impressed with both. But why pay more if it's not necessary? My dogs looked, acted and performed the same on both feeds.

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Danielle Haney
UKC Licensed Bench Show Judge


Home of:
CH Crystal Springs Dear Darla
Crystal Creeks Dizzy Spell

Proud Handler of:
GRNITECH CH PR Jamie's Trashy Big John
NITECH PR Lifeways Fire Cracker

In Fond Memory of:
NITECH CH PR Jamie's Trashy Hightech Redneck
GRNITECH GRCH PR Morgan's Losses Hills Dawn
GRCH PR Wilkinson's Jebb
NITECH CH PR Gimme Three Steps Mister

Last edited by Geminite on 12-28-2008 at 06:51 PM

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Old Post 12-28-2008 06:44 PM
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Dale Young
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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: michigan
Posts: 2573

I agree with what you're saying but theres only 12 months in a year.
$40 x 12= $480

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Old Post 12-30-2008 01:07 AM
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Geminite
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Dec 2005
Location: Ohio
Posts: 3063

Oops, i guess my math is a little off, I took $40 per week X 52 weeks (1 yr) ACCIDENT. I guess you get what I'm trying to say though lol....

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Danielle Haney
UKC Licensed Bench Show Judge


Home of:
CH Crystal Springs Dear Darla
Crystal Creeks Dizzy Spell

Proud Handler of:
GRNITECH CH PR Jamie's Trashy Big John
NITECH PR Lifeways Fire Cracker

In Fond Memory of:
NITECH CH PR Jamie's Trashy Hightech Redneck
GRNITECH GRCH PR Morgan's Losses Hills Dawn
GRCH PR Wilkinson's Jebb
NITECH CH PR Gimme Three Steps Mister

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Old Post 12-30-2008 01:12 AM
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Dale Young
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jun 2003
Location: michigan
Posts: 2573

Yep, this is just my good day . The other six it would have sailed right by me.

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Old Post 12-30-2008 02:08 AM
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dual walkers
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jul 2006
Location: ky. U.S.A.
Posts: 642

feed price

geminite where can i find diamond all natural for 22.99 its 29.99 here plus tax and i have feed it dogs that wernt worked or hunted hard done ok if there worked hard the muscle tone wasnt good and stools very loose cant stand that messy clean up i like pro plan dont feed as much and dogs hunt and look great i have 4 grown dogs and 3 pups so i feed a lot to just my opion theres a lot of good feeds that dogs do good on there just like ball teams feed and condition makes the dog not saying my dog will tree more coon but if it takes all nite to tree a coon can all dogs keep up seen dogs lay down i hunted two cast in one nite and seen dogs run out of energy so i try and keep the go power in mine tread mill/ road or swim them every day and hunt 4 to 5 nights a week

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CANYON CREEK KENNEL owner Steve Randolph, [home of top hunting and show treeing walker coon-hounds] THE PROUD HOME OF 2007 A.C.H.A. WORLD SHOW CHAMPION /UKC & AKC OPPOSITE SEX WORLD SHOW CHAMPION. 2006 BEST IN SHOW WINNER AT UKC, PREMIER. 2010 NATIONAL GRAND CHAMPION WALKER. 2010 OVERALL BROOD FEMALE WINNER.. AT AUTUMN OAKS.. [CCH.GRCH.HILLTOP LITTLE TAMMY]

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Old Post 12-30-2008 04:05 AM
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Geminite
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Dec 2005
Location: Ohio
Posts: 3063

We get our feed at an Agland Co-op. Cheapest we have found yet...

I'm not saying Purina isn't a good dog food, I KNOW that it is. I've fed it before. I'm just saying I prefer Diamond Naturals.....

__________________
Danielle Haney
UKC Licensed Bench Show Judge


Home of:
CH Crystal Springs Dear Darla
Crystal Creeks Dizzy Spell

Proud Handler of:
GRNITECH CH PR Jamie's Trashy Big John
NITECH PR Lifeways Fire Cracker

In Fond Memory of:
NITECH CH PR Jamie's Trashy Hightech Redneck
GRNITECH GRCH PR Morgan's Losses Hills Dawn
GRCH PR Wilkinson's Jebb
NITECH CH PR Gimme Three Steps Mister

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Old Post 12-30-2008 04:14 AM
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dual walkers
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jul 2006
Location: ky. U.S.A.
Posts: 642

geminite

hey do you have loose stools i did on the diamond naturals i liked it other then that

__________________
CANYON CREEK KENNEL owner Steve Randolph, [home of top hunting and show treeing walker coon-hounds] THE PROUD HOME OF 2007 A.C.H.A. WORLD SHOW CHAMPION /UKC & AKC OPPOSITE SEX WORLD SHOW CHAMPION. 2006 BEST IN SHOW WINNER AT UKC, PREMIER. 2010 NATIONAL GRAND CHAMPION WALKER. 2010 OVERALL BROOD FEMALE WINNER.. AT AUTUMN OAKS.. [CCH.GRCH.HILLTOP LITTLE TAMMY]

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Old Post 12-30-2008 05:30 AM
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Skyward
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Aug 2008
Location: Michigan
Posts: 344

Feed

I was at Tractor Supply the other day and seen that Diamond has a new formula (to me anyway) out. Extreme Athlete. It looks pretty good and at 29.99 a bag for maintenance, I picked up 4 bags.

Guaranteed Analysis
Crude Protein 32.0% Minimum
Crude Fat 25.0% Minimum
Crude Fiber 4.0% Maximum
Moisture 10.0% Maximum
Sodium 0.3% Maximum
Zinc 150 mg/kg Minimum
Selenium 0.4 mg/kg Minimum
Vitamin E 150 IU/kg Minimum
Omega-6 Fatty Acids * 3.5% Minimum
Omega-3 Fatty Acids * 0.5% Minimum
Glucosamine Hydrochloride * 300 mg/kg Minimum
Chondroitin Sulfate * 100 mg/kg Minimum

* Not recognized as an essential nutrient by the AAFCO Dog Food Nutrient Profile.

Calorie Content: 4,710 kcal/kg (470 kcal/cup) Calculated Metabolizable Energy.


Ingredients
Chicken meal, chicken, brewers rice, chicken fat (preserved with mixed tocopherols), egg product, cracked pearled barley, powdered cellulose, beet pulp, flaxseed, natural chicken flavor, fish meal, potassium chloride, choline chloride, glucosamine hydrochloride, vitamin E supplement, iron proteinate, zinc proteinate, copper proteinate, ferrous sulfate, zinc sulfate, copper sulfate, potassium iodide, thiamine mononitrate (vitamin B1), manganese proteinate, manganous oxide, chondroitin sulfate, ascorbic acid, vitamin A supplement, biotin, calcium pantothenate, manganese sulfate, sodium selenite, pyridoxine hydrochloride (vitamin B6), vitamin B12 supplement, riboflavin (vitamin B2), vitamin D supplement, folic acid.

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Old Post 12-30-2008 11:48 AM
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Kenny Gates
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jul 2004
Location: Highlands, Texas
Posts: 816

Re: Feed

quote:
Originally posted by Skyward
I was at Tractor Supply the other day and seen that Diamond has a new formula (to me anyway) out. Extreme Athlete. It looks pretty good and at 29.99 a bag for maintenance, I picked up 4 bags.

Guaranteed Analysis
Crude Protein 32.0% Minimum
Crude Fat 25.0% Minimum
Crude Fiber 4.0% Maximum
Moisture 10.0% Maximum
Sodium 0.3% Maximum
Zinc 150 mg/kg Minimum
Selenium 0.4 mg/kg Minimum
Vitamin E 150 IU/kg Minimum
Omega-6 Fatty Acids * 3.5% Minimum
Omega-3 Fatty Acids * 0.5% Minimum
Glucosamine Hydrochloride * 300 mg/kg Minimum
Chondroitin Sulfate * 100 mg/kg Minimum

* Not recognized as an essential nutrient by the AAFCO Dog Food Nutrient Profile.

Calorie Content: 4,710 kcal/kg (470 kcal/cup) Calculated Metabolizable Energy.


Ingredients
Chicken meal, chicken, brewers rice, chicken fat (preserved with mixed tocopherols), egg product, cracked pearled barley, powdered cellulose, beet pulp, flaxseed, natural chicken flavor, fish meal, potassium chloride, choline chloride, glucosamine hydrochloride, vitamin E supplement, iron proteinate, zinc proteinate, copper proteinate, ferrous sulfate, zinc sulfate, copper sulfate, potassium iodide, thiamine mononitrate (vitamin B1), manganese proteinate, manganous oxide, chondroitin sulfate, ascorbic acid, vitamin A supplement, biotin, calcium pantothenate, manganese sulfate, sodium selenite, pyridoxine hydrochloride (vitamin B6), vitamin B12 supplement, riboflavin (vitamin B2), vitamin D supplement, folic acid.



My dogs wouldn't eat it so I went back to purina.

KG

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Old Post 12-30-2008 03:09 PM
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Skyward
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Aug 2008
Location: Michigan
Posts: 344

Diamond

I'll have to keep my eye on that. I know that in dry kibble that has "chicken fat" as the primary fat source, it can be bad if not handled right. I wonder if this might be the reason? Did they eat it at all or take a sniff or two and turn their nose?

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Old Post 12-30-2008 03:17 PM
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Riverbottom Ron
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Feb 2007
Location:
Posts: 5863

DOG FOODS

I HAVE A FRIEND THAT WORKS AT PURNIA IN THE DEPT THAT DOES THE ANALISIS OF THE INGREDENCE OF DOG FEED.WHEN ASKED ABOUT WHAT FEED HE THINKS IS THE BEST HIS ANSWER WAS ,,,,THERE ARE LOTS OF GOOD DOG FOODS OUT THERE HE NAMED ,HIGH STANDARD,DIAMOND,BLACK GOLD,ECT,ECT,ECT,IT ALL COMES DOWN TO YOUR INDIVIDUAL DOGS MATABOLIZIM AND HOW HE DIGESTS THE DIFFERENT DOG FOODS,THATS HOW COME YOU HEAR ONE PERSON SAY MY DOGS DO GOOD ON DIAMOND,AND THE NEXT PERSON SAYS THEY WOULDNT FEED IT ,THE SAME WITH ALL THE DIFFERENT DOG FOODS,IF YOUR DOGS DONT DO GOOD ON ONE KIND IT WILL DO BETTER ON THE OTHER,IT GOS BACK TO THE DOGS MATABOLIZIM.,HE DID SAY STAY AWAY FROM THE CORN BASED DOG FOODS ,THERE ARE GOOD PRICED DOG FOODS OUT THERE AT 18 TO 20 DOLLARS A BAG,THAT YOUR DOGS WILL DO GOOD ON HE SAID JUST FIND THE ONE THAT BEST TAKES CARE OF YOUR DOG

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Old Post 12-30-2008 03:53 PM
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Kenny Gates
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jul 2004
Location: Highlands, Texas
Posts: 816

My male would eat it some but he started putting off a bad odor after seven days and lost weight. I mixed it with my females food and she ate around it. After 9 days I still had over 25lbs left so I dumped it and bought some HI Pro and Purina One (mixed them together).

My buddy has the same issue but we hunt the same line and it could just be our dogs!

KG

Last edited by Kenny Gates on 12-30-2008 at 04:07 PM

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JiM
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I'm kinda suprised that anyone at Purina would say to stay away from corn based dog food considering that their #1 seller is corn based and has corn as the first ingrediate.

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Old Post 12-30-2008 04:36 PM
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Skyward
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Registered: Aug 2008
Location: Michigan
Posts: 344

quote:
Originally posted by Kenny Gates
My male would eat it some but he started putting off a bad odor after seven days and lost weight. I mixed it with my females food and she ate around it. After 9 days I still had over 25lbs left so I dumped it and bought some HI Pro and Purina One (mixed them together).

My buddy has the same issue but we hunt the same line and it could just be our dogs!

KG



That kinda rules out the bad ingredient deal then. lol
I will certainly keep my eyes open though. Thanks for the heads up.

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Old Post 12-30-2008 05:00 PM
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Geminite
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Dec 2005
Location: Ohio
Posts: 3063

Re: geminite

quote:
Originally posted by dual walkers
hey do you have loose stools i did on the diamond naturals i liked it other then that


No, have never had a problem with that. Probably just the individual dog....

We've also fed the Extreme Athlete but ended up going back to Chicken & Rice because of the price.....

__________________
Danielle Haney
UKC Licensed Bench Show Judge


Home of:
CH Crystal Springs Dear Darla
Crystal Creeks Dizzy Spell

Proud Handler of:
GRNITECH CH PR Jamie's Trashy Big John
NITECH PR Lifeways Fire Cracker

In Fond Memory of:
NITECH CH PR Jamie's Trashy Hightech Redneck
GRNITECH GRCH PR Morgan's Losses Hills Dawn
GRCH PR Wilkinson's Jebb
NITECH CH PR Gimme Three Steps Mister

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