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yadkintar
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jan 2013
Location: Marietta
Posts: 9626

Dave your all wet !!

If one of Richards red dogs was high scoring dog of a major hunt why would you ruin his moment ?


Tarbaby

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Old Post 10-24-2019 02:05 PM
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Dave Richards
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Registered: Apr 2015
Location: church hill tn
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Tar

Lol. I guess anything is possible ! I guess if you are the only dog hunting and can actually tree a coon without losing all your plus points, you would be the high scoring dog and the hunt Winner. So, yes there is hope for Mr. Lambert and his Redbones. Don't have to be a big hunt to be a major hunt for Mr. Lambert. JK. Dave

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Old Post 10-24-2019 09:14 PM
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yadkintar
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jan 2013
Location: Marietta
Posts: 9626

Ok you could be high scoring cast winner that night instead of being high scoring dog. Kinda like having the best hand in a poker game you pull the chips your way.


Tar

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Old Post 10-24-2019 09:21 PM
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Dave Richards
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Tar

Big difference in a poker game that everyone is playing at the same time from the same deck of cards, having the same odds for getting the cards they get. Winning at poker is a combination of luck and skill, winning a hunt should be more skill than luck, unless you factor in luck of the draw and who gets to hunt the honey holes. Lol. Dave

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Dave Richards Treeing Walkers Reg American Saddlebred and Registered Rocky Mt. Show Horses

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Old Post 10-24-2019 09:41 PM
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yadkintar
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Registered: Jan 2013
Location: Marietta
Posts: 9626

If you got the right kind of dog it will turn a dry hole into a honey hole ! You are going to have to get up earlier itís raining I am board and I have had my poop stirring stick out all day whereís everybody at anyways lol.


Tar

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Old Post 10-24-2019 09:56 PM
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Dave Richards
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Tar

Anyway you cut the cards, all you can do is WIN your cast. You can not control the other casts or the scores in the other casts. All cast winners have done the same thing, they WON their cast. Comparing scores of the cast winners proves nothing in determing the HUNT WINNER. All of those casts hunted on different ground with different coon populations, they were NOT playing with the same opportunity to score the same amount of points. High Score only means something when everyone has the same opportunity, playing in the same game at the same time. We all know that not every cast of dogs get to hunt where coons are thick or have the opportunity to score in multiply coons. Saying a dog won a hunt because it scored the most points in one cast is a misconception, all the dog ever done was get high scoring dog. Calling a spade a spade is accepting facts, the only true champion is one that wins a cast elimination format hunt. Saying you were the high scoring dog of the hunt is okay, saying you won the hunt because you had high score in one cast is just not true. Dave. P.S. unless you were hunting a Redbone. Lol

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Dave Richards Treeing Walkers Reg American Saddlebred and Registered Rocky Mt. Show Horses

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Old Post 10-24-2019 10:18 PM
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yadkintar
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I guided a cast in my spot because because my female was in heat they treed two possums minused out and accused me of dry holing them in a mowed pecan bottom. I told them next month I will be hunting my dog in this same spot she treed 3 coons won another 1rst to make her a ntch.


Sometimes you canít blame the coons.


Tar

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Old Post 10-24-2019 10:32 PM
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Dave Richards
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Registered: Apr 2015
Location: church hill tn
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Tar

It's sunny here, got to feed horses and dogs, maybe hunt tonight. I agree that the right dog can turn a keyhole into something, but not into a honeyhole. It's a keyhole for a reason, and I know you have been dry holed . Dry hole or honeyhole all the best any dig can do is WIN their cast. Explain why one cast winner is better than all the other cast winners based solely on score. Make your explanation clear so that everyone can understand, I am ready to listen to reason. Look at all of the $ hunts that a high score in one cast meant nothing in that dog winning later cast or the hunt. You can bet that the same would happen in the UKC HUNTS with a cast elimination format. Luck of the draw goes out the window when you have to win multiply casts to win a hunt. One cast win with a high score DOES NOT prove anything and definitely does not make the dog the hunt Winner. Dave

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Dave Richards Treeing Walkers Reg American Saddlebred and Registered Rocky Mt. Show Horses

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Old Post 10-24-2019 10:42 PM
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yadkintar
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Registered: Jan 2013
Location: Marietta
Posts: 9626

My explanation is : in all the major ukc hunts very seldom will one cast win get you high scoring dog of hunt most times you have to win your cast both nights. Now that we got the $200,000 hunt more less when you get to the zone is elimination style. The world hunt already was.


At the local level was for just pretty much a title thatís all changed now.


Howís dat ?


Tar

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Old Post 10-24-2019 10:59 PM
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Dave Richards
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Tar

Tar, now you are talking a different thing, all dogs aren't coon dogs, some could not get a high score if you turned coons loose for them. I am talking about dogs that can and do tree coons when the coons are there to tree. How many times does a good dog get drawn out with crappy dogs and has no real competition. It's easy for a good dog to run up a score when the competition sucks. That fact is the reason why a high score in one cast means nothing, winning multiply casts a dog will have to hunt against some just as good as they are. The bigger the hunt and the further you advance the better the competition will become. Until we have a cast winner elimination format for all the major hunts, we do not have a hunt Winner only a high score dog. How good was the competition in the cast that dog was in? How crazy is it to base anything on a one cast deal? Club hunts are the place for a single cast format, the major hunts deserve a real winner. How many guys travel hundreds of miles to hunt these major hunts only to get shafted on the location they hunt? A cast winner elimination format would level the playing field and give everyone a fair chance at winning the hunt. Dave

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Old Post 10-24-2019 11:00 PM
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novicane65
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Registered: Dec 2013
Location: Nichols Ny
Posts: 1278

Re: Tar

quote:
Originally posted by Dave Richards
Tar, now you are talking a different thing, all dogs aren't coon dogs, some could not get a high score if you turned coons loose for them. I am talking about dogs that can and do tree coons when the coons are there to tree. How many times does a good dog get drawn out with crappy dogs and has no real competition. It's easy for a good dog to run up a score when the competition sucks. That fact is the reason why a high score in one cast means nothing, winning multiply casts a dog will have to hunt against some just as good as they are. The bigger the hunt and the further you advance the better the competition will become. Until we have a cast winner elimination format for all the major hunts, we do not have a hunt Winner only a high score dog. How good was the competition in the cast that dog was in? How crazy is it to base anything on a one cast deal? Club hunts are the place for a single cast format, the major hunts deserve a real winner. How many guys travel hundreds of miles to hunt these major hunts only to get shafted on the location they hunt? A cast winner elimination format would level the playing field and give everyone a fair chance at winning the hunt. Dave




This is a huge reason I and many other guys don't hunt UKC hunts. Now if the new world hunt is set up as a true elimination style hunt, you'll see way more dogs show up. I've never agreed with the format ukc has, so I never hunted in their hunts. Its simple really, don't like this registry hunt the others, which is what I've done. But I don't understand why there's so many guys that can't see what you and I have been saying for years. Its always been about the draw of the guides in UKC, and will still be at bigger hunts in the foreseeable future.

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Old Post 10-24-2019 11:46 PM
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Dave Richards
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Registered: Apr 2015
Location: church hill tn
Posts: 3549

Tar

I just want to clarify some things, first and foremost is that my posts are strictly my opinions, it does not mean that I am right, even though I think I am. Lol. Next, I really do respect others opinions, may not agree with them all the time, but I do respect them. Last but certainly not the least, is that I value the friendships of others way more than my desire to be right or win an argument. I will not let my ego cause me to lose sight of the value of others friendships. I have gave Tar a hard time on this board at times, but I honestly believe Tar is a valuable asset to this forum. When I put my ego in time out, I found out Tar was a genuine supporter of UKC and he has done a lot if good over the years as a MOH. His heart has always been in the right place, even when we chose to overlook . I value a forum friendship with Tar and others more than any desire to prove them wring or make them look bad to others. I would like to think that if I was ever in anyone's neck if the woods, that I would be welcome to hunt and eat at their table. They would sure be welcome to hunt and eat with me should they ever get to my part of the country. Funny how clear things become when we check our egos before we act or speak. Dave

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Old Post 10-24-2019 11:53 PM
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yadkintar
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jan 2013
Location: Marietta
Posts: 9626

Re: Tar

quote:
Originally posted by Dave Richards
I just want to clarify some things, first and foremost is that my posts are strictly my opinions, it does not mean that I am right, even though I think I am. Lol. Next, I really do respect others opinions, may not agree with them all the time, but I do respect them. Last but certainly not the least, is that I value the friendships of others way more than my desire to be right or win an argument. I will not let my ego cause me to lose sight of the value of others friendships. I have gave Tar a hard time on this board at times, but I honestly believe Tar is a valuable asset to this forum. When I put my ego in time out, I found out Tar was a genuine supporter of UKC and he has done a lot if good over the years as a MOH. His heart has always been in the right place, even when we chose to overlook . I value a forum friendship with Tar and others more than any desire to prove them wring or make them look bad to others. I would like to think that if I was ever in anyone's neck if the woods, that I would be welcome to hunt and eat at their table. They would sure be welcome to hunt and eat with me should they ever get to my part of the country. Funny how clear things become when we check our egos before we act or speak. Dave



I am just having a discussion we got everything else done but this. Ok how would you go about having an elimination style hunt when you have a two night major hunt with 300 dogs a night. The only way you can do it is by scores or add more nights to eliminate down. But dead cast under the ukc plus point format would automatically be out.


Tar

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Old Post 10-25-2019 12:03 AM
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Dave Richards
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Apr 2015
Location: church hill tn
Posts: 3549

Eric DePue

UKC has definitely made progress in the way things are done, I hope in the future that they adopt a cast winner elimination format for ALL of the Major Hunts. I believe it would increase attendance and it would make the hunt Winner a legitimate winner, just like the World Champion. How many folks are just like you and don't hunt UKC HUNTS due to the single cast format? Drive hundreds of miles to a major hunt only to get a crappy spot to hunt, win your cast but not enough score, you are finished. A cast winner elimination format would correct this injustice and give a good dog the opportunity to win the hunt. Folks do not like the odds of the high score format, I don't, why spend the money and time to attend a hunt when the odds are so poor that you can win. Everyone knows that there are always a few who have the hunting spots full of coon, while most casts are hunting spots that do not offer the same opportunity to run up s big score. Eliminate this practice, go to a cast winner elimination format that's fair to every one. Dave

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Old Post 10-25-2019 12:10 AM
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Dave Richards
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Posts: 3549

Tar

Exactly as you suggested, make these major hunts a 4 night affair. They are held in the same locations every year and already have the support they need to hold these hunts. It would be a win win situation for all involved. It would generate more income for the localities and the Clubs, more important it would mean more to the actual winner if the hunt. Yes dead casts would be eliminated, but those that win with plus points as UKC is all about would advance, score would not be a factor. No hunt will ever be perfect for everyone, but it should be fair to all, that's all anyone can ask for or expect. Dave

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Old Post 10-25-2019 12:20 AM
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Sgraves
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Posts: 252

A high score format is stupid. You take a dog an hunt it on feeder buckets at the same spot for a period of time. An the guy guides his cast at that spot he will run up a high score. Because every time you turn that dog loose it heads straight for a bucket. Some will say the dog still has to tree the coon. Maybe so . I say itís just a handler looking for a cheap way out. High scoring dog winning the whole thing proves nothing.You pay a farmer to bait you up a spot an get the coon there you will have it made .

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Old Post 10-25-2019 12:35 AM
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Dave Richards
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Sgraves

You are correct, while no hunt can ever be equal in all respects to all of the entries, it can be in fact reasonably fair. Given a cast winner elimination style format, all you have to do is WIN your cast, forget about scores of other casts and what score it's going to take to place. Go out win your cast and advance, no more advantage to a select few casts that have access to the best hunting spots. Winning a hunt on a high score based on 1 or 2 casts while hunting against 6 different dogs at most does not make sense nor is it in anyway fair to all of the other cast winners. If a hunt is worth having and is considered a Major hunt or Show Case Hunt then do it the right way. Winning Autuum Oaks, Grand American, or The Winter Classic should mean something, that you actually won it fair and square in a cast winner elimination format hunt, not based on a couple of casts and a high score hunting only against 6 different dogs at most. Most hunters would welcome a cast winner elimination format over the current system of high score, or at least the ones that I have spoken with. Now some won't due to their access to the better hunting spots and less competition to win. Dave

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Old Post 10-25-2019 03:58 AM
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novicane65
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Registered: Dec 2013
Location: Nichols Ny
Posts: 1278

Re: Sgraves

quote:
Originally posted by Dave Richards
You are correct, while no hunt can ever be equal in all respects to all of the entries, it can be in fact reasonably fair. Given a cast winner elimination style format, all you have to do is WIN your cast, forget about scores of other casts and what score it's going to take to place. Go out win your cast and advance, no more advantage to a select few casts that have access to the best hunting spots. Winning a hunt on a high score based on 1 or 2 casts while hunting against 6 different dogs at most does not make sense nor is it in anyway fair to all of the other cast winners. If a hunt is worth having and is considered a Major hunt or Show Case Hunt then do it the right way. Winning Autuum Oaks, Grand American, or The Winter Classic should mean something, that you actually won it fair and square in a cast winner elimination format hunt, not based on a couple of casts and a high score hunting only against 6 different dogs at most. Most hunters would welcome a cast winner elimination format over the current system of high score, or at least the ones that I have spoken with. Now some won't due to their access to the better hunting spots and less competition to win. Dave



I bet it'd be a 3 to 1 (or close to that) vote if you asked every cast.


PS. I like Mr. Hitt, he's a good guy. I've talked to him on the phone a few times. Seems like he's got a bunch of knowledge about different lines.

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PKC CH Wax's Late Night Boom
And
Partners on a few common trashy young dogs

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Pr Broken Oaks Wild Blue Gypsy

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Old Post 10-25-2019 11:25 PM
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Dave Richards
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Registered: Apr 2015
Location: church hill tn
Posts: 3549

Eric DePue

I like old Tar myself, and just for the record, Tar knows a lot about dogs and is a asset to our sport. We like to banter with each other, but it's all in fun, Tar can take it as good as he can dish it out, some folks can't. Tar would help anyone anytime and does, truthfully, we need more like him. Dave

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yadkintar
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jan 2013
Location: Marietta
Posts: 9626

Richard hurts my feelers sometimes.


Tar

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Dave Richards
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Posts: 3549

Tar

Mr. Lambert hurts his own feelers, it's a Redbone thing! Lol. Dave

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