Registered: Sep 2016
Location:
Posts: 190

Okay, so recently we've received quite a few HTX reports where we've had to respond with warning letters due to the hunts being run incorrectly.

The biggest issue we've had is that people are judging each other's dogs. Joe goes out and inspects Gary's dog, then Gary turns around to inspect Joe's dog. It is stated in the rules that this is not allowed. I know it helps to cut down on time as well as makes it easier for clubs that draw in only a couple people, but let's brainstorm a bit.

Say you have three dogs show up. An idea is to have handlers of dogs A, B, and C go out together so that there's no need to regroup. While Dog A is hunting, send out the handler of Dog B to be inspector. Meanwhile, handler of Dog C waits in the truck. After finishing Dog A's inspection, it's Dog B's turn. Send Dog B and their handler out with the handler of Dog C as the inspector. Handler of Dog A sits back at the truck. Finally, Dog C's turn. Dog C and handler go out with handler of Dog A as their inspector. This way no one is inspecting a dog for someone that inspected theirs, nor is anyone inspecting a dog whose handler they've been to the woods with earlier that night. It can't be a hunt where you show up to hunt your dog and then leave. Help and support each other!

Throw out some of your guys' thoughts and ideas here to not only prevent more warning letters, but to also help out the small clubs that struggle to be able to hold these hunts. I, personally, enjoy these hunts and would like to see them become more successful.

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Registered: Oct 2010
Location: La fayette Georgia
Posts: 2144

Your just going to have to change the rules and trust those that judge each other and be glad that you at least have 2 entries

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Registered: Jun 2014
Location: Louisiana
Posts: 958

I too enjoy these hunts. I always try to bring a friend with or without a dog. It is the clubs responabilty to make sure everyone is judge correctly. In our case, the VP or some other rep may have to go to the woods to judge without hunting their dog.

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Registered: Jun 2006
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Hardest part of the HTX is once you get a bunch of dogs with a couple passes is trying to find inspectors that is allowed to inspect certain dogs. Our club has had as high as 14 dogs and as low as 3 dogs.

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Registered: Sep 2015
Location: Ohio
Posts: 113

quote:

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Originally posted by wjoey
Your just going to have to change the rules and trust those that judge each other and be glad that you at least have 2 entries

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Registered: Jan 2015
Location:
Posts: 319

I know I've asked the guys at our local club about these. They don't like the "required" 1 hour hunt time. If a dog trees a coon in 15 mins then it should be over. The first one they did took all night trying to get the dogs the full one hour.

to get more numbers, htx should be required to get a ntch or grntch title. They should also count in top producers and to the performance program. If something to this nature don't happen. The program will die. I've been looking for one to go to and nobody's having them around here anymore.

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Registered: Oct 2014
Location: East Texas
Posts: 442

We had one at our club it went real good....I don't really understand all the cheating or the buddy hunts I know it exists but if I judge your dog I'm gonna be hard on it and if you judge my dog I will ask you to be hard on it....I want to be proud of what my dog accomplishes not what he can get away with....I also seen some me too dogs that couldn't pass an HTX hunt that were titled dogs....

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Registered: Jun 2005
Location: Prince Edward Island,Canada
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quote:

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Originally posted by wjoey
Your just going to have to change the rules and trust those that judge each other and be glad that you at least have 2 entries

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Registered: Oct 2010
Location: La fayette Georgia
Posts: 2144

Here is a rule proposal , allow 2 people to judge each others dog only when 3 or less are entered but require that one pass must be made by a cast were there is one judge that has not been with the dog or does not have a dog testing for it to achieve htx , Assign license to people just like moh or bsj for htx testers and be choosey accept only applicants who are know for being honest and trustworthy and require club members to sign off on them so they can pass any dog that passes without having to go to a htx hunt hoping someone will be there , just my idea

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423-802-4115
The home where the big time winners come from

UKC PREFORMANCE SIRE Nt ch pkc ch BAM BAM The only one out of WORLD CH BIG D X GRNT SKIPPERS UMFORGIVEN SAIGE she has 21 pups 4nt ch 5 grnt ch thats 42.85%
He is a coon dog!
Nt ch ch Insane Minnie MouseInsane cain x Malden Branch Mouse

HOME OF 2 TIME AQHA HORSE OF THE YEAR
World champion working cow horse snaffle bit
SMART LITTLE LEGEND
ETCHA CHAMPION
HCHA CHAMPION
Top 16 NCHA WORLD Champion
Home of GHSRA All Around Cowboy Champion Chris wilbanks

Jerico Rebel our Movie star horse hes been in three films now 35 years old
Just passed away February 4th 2016

MY OLD DOGS GONE BUT NEVER FORGOTTEN
The one I will allways miss now deceased 01/09/2013
GR CH GRAND NT CH Handosme Trudy
SIRE PKC WLD CH GR NT WHATS UP DOC
DAM GR NT HUTCHINS SUGAR

GRCH GR NT CH COBBLER CREEK WENDY
GR NT STYLISH TUFF - WENDY X STYLISH LIPPER
GR NT STYLISH TACK - WENDY X STYLISH LIPPER

NT CH SOUTHERN STYLE - JP'S HIGH STYLE X HOUSES LADY

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Registered: Jul 2012
Location: Odessa, Mo
Posts: 2066

quote:

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Originally posted by wjoey
Your just going to have to change the rules and trust those that judge each other and be glad that you at least have 2 entries

---

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Registered: Dec 2014
Location: Dubuque Co.
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HTX in general!?! What's the point!? Would Ntch or GrNtCh not be Enough? If it's got ntch an or GrNtCh I assure you it can easily say HTX or maybe I'm wrong? Most open hounds can go out an tree coon by themselves.. is HTX like the title that everyone gets for participating?! I know plenty of farm mutts who can go out an tree couple coon!! Guess their HTX farm coondawgs!

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Last edited by WalkerPower21 on 01-19-2017 at 08:22 AM

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Registered: Dec 2014
Location: Dubuque Co.
Posts: 340

quote:

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Originally posted by Greg Burks
We had one at our club it went real good....I don't really understand all the cheating or the buddy hunts I know it exists but if I judge your dog I'm gonna be hard on it and if you judge my dog I will ask you to be hard on it....I want to be proud of what my dog accomplishes not what he can get away with....I also seen some me too dogs that couldn't pass an HTX hunt that were titled dogs....

---

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Registered: Sep 2016
Location:
Posts: 190

quote:

---

Originally posted by wjoey
Here is a rule proposal , allow 2 people to judge each others dog only when 3 or less are entered but require that one pass must be made by a cast were there is one judge that has not been with the dog or does not have a dog testing for it to achieve htx , Assign license to people just like moh or bsj for htx testers and be choosey accept only applicants who are know for being honest and trustworthy and require club members to sign off on them so they can pass any dog that passes without having to go to a htx hunt hoping someone will be there , just my idea

---

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Registered: Mar 2006
Location: Western NC
Posts: 1529

quote:

---

Originally posted by WalkerPower21
HTX in general!?! What's the point!? Would Ntch or GrNtCh not be Enough? If it's got ntch an or GrNtCh I assure you it can easily say HTX or maybe I'm wrong? Most open hounds can go out an tree coon by themselves.. is HTX like the title that everyone gets for participating?! I know plenty of farm mutts who can go out an tree couple coon!! Guess their HTX farm coondawgs!

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Registered: Sep 2015
Location: Ohio
Posts: 113

quote:

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Originally posted by Krystal / UKC
If there are three dogs there, there is no reason for two people to have to judge each other's dog. Hence the scenario I provided. Having only two dogs is where things get sticky. In that case, a designated member should be willing to judge both dogs. This is an issue that prevents some clubs from being able to hold the event correctly due to low member participation. ThatBlueDog says that these hunts are not laid back enough due to the amount of rules, so to add the need to be licensed judge adds more complication to the matter. I don't believe you need to be a licensed judge to be able to go out and inspect an HTX hunt. I do believe that some clubs need members to step up and help out. It's easy to say "let's reformat the whole thing". I'd like to see everyone put their heads together to make them work. I'm hear to listen to some possible tweaks, but I am not really in favor of allowing people to judge each other's dogs. That is when the titles become too easily fabricated.

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Registered: Nov 2014
Location: Southington, OH
Posts: 45

Nothing is ever going to be perfectly formated, or appeal to everyone. Same as the night rules. But, here is what it boils down to a guy who is honest is going to be honest about the situation. And a guy that has to cheat and lie is going to do the same as long as he can. So with that being said I would say make the rules more fitting for the honest man, the cheaters and liars are going to do it regardless of the rules.

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Registered: Feb 2012
Location: airville,pa
Posts: 2072

i enjoy htx hunts. when ya have 3 dogs together and make numerous drops for each dog it is lots of hunting time. too much hunt time for during the week or even a weekend in some cases for that matter. too much to keep it fun which it should be. if a handler can't be honest with his dog on an htx they should consider just staying home for pete sakes. same goes for judging another dog.
i realize if the dog trees an has the coon in minutes and they get a pass it would cheapen the title a little but the title is meant to be fun so why not flow with it.
i think if they made a couple small changes like mentioned above many hunters would be happier.

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Registered: Jun 2012
Location: McRae Ar
Posts: 3701

I have enjoyed going to the ones that I have but you have to have three people to go in each group. Let’s say you drive 15 to 20 minutes to hunt. First dog is judged, 1 hour of hunting, 15 to 20 minutes to get back to the truck. Move and repeat for the next one. That’s 1 1/2 to almost 2 hours per dog times 3. Dead line was 7. took 30 minutes to get everyone gone. 20 minute drive back to the club. Its now 2:30 in the morning and that’s if nothing goes wrong. You hunted an hour and then watch 2 dogs that might tree a coon walk you all over the woods. If 4 people show up you are really in a bad shape.

I know why you don’t want to change the rules, I really do but if it’s going to survive you going to have to do something. You said:

“I do believe that some clubs need members to step up and help out. It's easy to say "let's reformat the whole thing". I'd like to see everyone put their heads together to make them work."

Trust me finding the club members to step up is not going to be easy.

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Registered: Mar 2008
Location: Menominee, Nebraska
Posts: 875

quote:

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Originally posted by joey
I have enjoyed going to the ones that I have but you have to have three people to go in each group. Let’s say you drive 15 to 20 minutes to hunt. First dog is judged, 1 hour of hunting, 15 to 20 minutes to get back to the truck. Move and repeat for the next one. That’s 1 1/2 to almost 2 hours per dog times 3. Dead line was 7. took 30 minutes to get everyone gone. 20 minute drive back to the club. Its now 2:30 in the morning and that’s if nothing goes wrong. You hunted an hour and then watch 2 dogs that might tree a coon walk you all over the woods. If 4 people show up you are really in a bad shape.

I know why you don’t want to change the rules, I really do but if it’s going to survive you going to have to do something. You said:

“I do believe that some clubs need members to step up and help out. It's easy to say "let's reformat the whole thing". I'd like to see everyone put their heads together to make them work."

Trust me finding the club members to step up is not going to be easy.

---

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Registered: Oct 2004
Location: Paragon IN
Posts: 1099

I have never understood why UKC is so against 2 people judging each others dogs, while at the same time all for hunting judges in competition hunts.

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Missouri
Posts: 4321

quote:

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Originally posted by Krystal / UKC
I do believe that some clubs need members to step up and help out.

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Registered: Mar 2008
Location: Menominee, Nebraska
Posts: 875

quote:

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Originally posted by John D


If we had it to do over again, perhpas we should require all participants to inspect a dog for every time they get theirs inspected or do something to encourage guys to inspect.

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Registered: Jan 2017
Location:
Posts: 5

The unfortunate thing here is we have to discuss the honesty and integrity of so many people. Unfortunatly that is the country and world we live in this day and age and it is very disappointing. I can personally tell you I have no issue failing my own dog or anyone elses that would fail the test. I do agree if UKC would like to get more participation in HTX hunts both by member clubs and dog owners the rules need to be lightened to allow that to happen. I agree with the statement that if "people are going to cheat they will do it regardless of the rules in place". I don't believe an HTX title carries much weight for marketing dogs anyway. I feel it is more of an avenue to try to get more people to participate at local clubs and have some fellowship along the way. Both UKC and UKC member clubs know it is by no way a money maker for either. I do believe if UKC truely wants to get better participation in the HTX hunts, (which could lead to more participation in other UKC member club events) they would allow anyone to judge a dog in the woods other than anyone that owns part of or all of that particular dog and the same judge could judge the same dog multipule times for the dog to receive the title. I can hionestly tell you that before I completely understood the rules I actually judged a dog owned by my son and failed that dog. I may be the exception to the rule but a "title" of any sort doesn't mean enough to me to ruin my honesty or integrity I have worked my entire life to build. I enjoy pleasure hunting as much as competition hunting and the only reason I competition hunt is I have three sons that enoy it and it is a way for me to spend more time in the woods with them which is far more important than any title UKC or any other club could ever award to a dog I own.

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Registered: Jun 2014
Location: Louisiana
Posts: 3369

To me, it's as simple as either hunters want to do it or they don't. No matter how you tweak the rules, some people won't be happy.

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Registered: Jul 2003
Location: Palmyra, Missouri
Posts: 9987

I have let a youth in the club handle my dogs. The rules are if he/she barks say "strike" if he/she "barks fast" say "tree" then find the coon. Be honest. They get experience, my dogs get hunted and got a pass, and I had coffee and doughnuts with another old hunter in the truck. How can you lose?

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