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That's why he's a goat farmer instead of a coonhunter now!! Joe wilbanks. Lol

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I'm going to set this crap straight once and for all... Tar rattler was a big mouth tree dog that produced that.. we bred our lipper bitches to him and it produced a very balanced hound.. rattler gave us what we were looking for back then. It was tree power and nothing more...I have as much or more experience with the rattler x Lipper cross as any one.. it was a very good cross.. lipper had about 3000 pups on the ground before some of his daughters were exposed to rattler.. he was already established.. rattler had about 250 to 300 pups on the ground when Jess Dickerson bred lipper daughter lockdown lassie and Jim Hagen and I bred lipper daughter Moonshhiners sassy to tar rattler... With out both rattler and those lipper females that cross would not have been possible.. but that being said lipper was already famous , but without lassie and sassy I don't think rattler would have had the success.. but with out rattler sassy and lassie wouldn't have had the name as well.
..I am not taking anything away from either dog. They gave us some hounds we were proud of and talk about to this day.. And Robbie for you to be saying that rattler made lipper your full of crap. Not everybody likes the same thing that's why there is chocolate and vanilla.. Thank you to both rattler and lipper for giving me some fond memories.

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Last edited by jay brademeyer on 01-16-2017 at 06:20 PM

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Jay I will be as respectfull as I can me and you probly will never agree on this but here goes. I was in Texas watching lipper way before he was famous you were in ahh well North Dakota. Let's just put it like this I have heard that lipper threw a bunch of idiots because he was bred to inferior females no sir !! That sucker was bred to some of the best females in the United States and everybody knows about the hanky panky if we are going to tell the story tell the whole story if he was all that and a bag of chips then all this seman that's been used should be winning hunts not 6 yr old dogs untitled there has been some rattler seman used and they are titled I hunted both offspring I personly hunted with rattler did you. Now that that is said I will brag on you you helped promote rattler as much as anybody and you have worked hard at your dogs and just because we disagree I still respect you and consider you my freind and I hope all you web warriors appreciate me and jay giving you somthing interesting to read lol !!

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Registered: Feb 2006
Location: Prosperity,S.C.
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quote:

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Originally posted by jay brademeyer
I'm going to set this crap straight once and for all... Tar rattler was a big mouth tree dog that produced that.. we bred our lipper bitches to him and it produced a very balanced hound.. rattler gave us what we were looking for back then. It was tree power and nothing more...I have as much or more experience with the rattler x Lipper cross as any one.. it was a very good cross.. lipper had about 3000 pups on the ground before some of his daughters were exposed to rattler.. he was already established.. rattler had about 250 to 300 pups on the ground when Jess Dickerson bred lipper daughter lockdown lassie and Jim Hagen and I bred lipper daughter Moonshhiners sassy to tar rattler... With out both rattler and those lipper females that cross would not have been possible.. but that being said lipper was already famous , but without lassie and sassy I don't think rattler would have had the success.. but with out rattler sassy and lassie wouldn't have had the name as well.
..I am not taking anything away from either dog. They gave us some hounds we were proud of and talk about to this day.. And Robbie for you to be saying that rattler made lipper your full of crap. Not everybody likes the same thing that's why there is chocolate and vanilla.. Thank you to both rattler and lipper for giving me some fond memories.

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Robbie it doesn't matter if we agree or not. The only problem with not agreeing is somebody has to be wrong...And I know who that is... Lol .. have a nice day my friend. 😋

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A little trip down memorie lane jay I can't remember the year I believe it was the Texas state hunt we found out where lippers cast was going and we were up on the hill listening it wasent hard to figure out witch one was him that rascal would just scatter dogs on track and a baby could call him treed I think he won the whole hunt. Me and Gary Patterson went to toms and hunted with cash to this day the loudest dog I have ever heard went with lawyer and lightning too jay I know why you liked them and your not wrong for what you seen I agree with you but I was in a different time in lippers career and it was a god awfull lot of work lol ! This old female I got out here has a lot of rattler and lipper in her you remember how bozz operated when I brought him up there at 9 yrs old she operates just like that bozz was a rattler lipper product good luck with the pups you got coming jay your freind tar.

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Registered: Jun 2012
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quote:

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Originally posted by yadkintar
[B] Let's just put it like this I have heard that lipper threw a bunch of idiots because he was bred to inferior females no sir !!

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If he was bred to a bunch of inferior females who's fault was that ? If there was and its a proven fact hanky panky took place those good dogs out of him might not be out of him who's fault was that ? My dogs have him in them the grand pups were more level headed than the ones strait off the tap from my experience as for bone I am a believer that the day a puppy is born it is born with the way it will reproduce papers don't mean dookie I seen a dog here in Oklahoma that wasent worth a quarter could not have treed a coon in its life time but got accidentally bred and threw nothing but coondogs out of everything brought to him if you got one you blame worthless females for his lack of ability to reproduce then he is not a good reproducer if you would have bred rattler or bone to the same females they would destroy his percentages.



Take that lol !!

Last edited by yadkintar on 01-17-2017 at 12:47 AM

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I'm sure there was probably something went on that shouldn’t have. I grew up around a bunch of dog traders. From the amount of papers I seen swapped when I was a kid I'm doubtful of any of them.

As far as whose fault him being bred to sorry gyps was, it sure wasn’t his fault. It sounds a lot more like you have a problem with the promotion of the dog more than the dog.

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Registered: Jan 2013
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Joey !!! I am an old dog trainer I did not like training pups out of lipper that's it !! I also what few I hunted out of Harry did not like training them either dogs out of rat treed to much down here. Had two out of Yadkin River Chico the trashy son of a guns I ever hunted I just call it like it is !! When rattler come along I no longer had to put up with non stop barking , poop walking ,trashy hunt 7 nights a week dogs I was ready too ! But there is a little dog that you might know would have blew them all out of the water if bred that much.




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Ya I know a little something about him. Every dog I own has him pretty close. Except for this Lipper grand pup I have and Sackett is even tucked in back there a little ways on him too.

I have learned this. I have found that it is a mistake to stick with or avoid a blood line because you liked or disliked a hound in the background. None of them mark a pup true very often and I think that after a generation or two they do not mark them at all unless they are line bred on the dog.

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Registered: Jan 2013
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All it boils down to is dog with fewer pups that throws more workable coon treeing dogs is a reproducer if he does it on any bloodline of female run under him.

If you have to pick your females and and breed more of them to get the same result not a reproducer.

When I trained dogs it was in my best intrest if I hunted dogs that learned quickly with less correction because I wasent getting paid to fail if I had to hunt one 3 months to get it hunted down enough to were it started learning what it should have in a month it wasent good buissness.

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Registered: Jul 2004
Location: Nova Scotia
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I had a female pup shipped up here from Texas in early 90" s out of Tar Rattler. Nice young dog that I sold back to the breeder two years later. Only Rattler dog I've seen. Her mother was out of Lipper. She produced a female when bred to Harry that's been on the historical list a long time.

I remember seeing Ratler semen advertised many years
ago but iI ddidn't realize there was any pups ever produced from it

Tar what came out of the Rattler semen ?

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This is what id imagine a coon hunters retirement home to sound like lol.

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Registered: Jul 2004
Location: Nova Scotia
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quote:

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Originally posted by Josh Michaelis
This is what id imagine a coon hunters retirement home to sound like lol.

---

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I just erased this post 3 times , but I will say this, I have hunted all my life trained most all my dogs my self made plenty of grand nites won big hunts and if I could get one pup today and that would be all I could ever own it would be out of stylish lipper and lipper was his daddy there was no Yadkin river or harry blood there , lipper himself threw trashy dogs but when they started treeing look out, Yadkin river threw dogs that had no heart yes they would tree coons but did not have enough drive to hunt in thin coons and they had a good mouth, harry just threw sorry lazy no treeing junk but they looked good and had good mouths if they ever started and sold good at trade day,I have had several pups directly off these dogs all bred to just a average dog at best except for wendy, I hunted every night back then no matter the weather so they all had a chance and this is what I thought of them . Now for the ones I drew at hunts 70% lipper ones were mean but won 90% of the time and could rack up a score 60% Yadkin river average at best and won 20% only if there was not a good lipper dog there but at least the ytr weren't mean , Harry never seen a good one he gets a 0

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Registered: Oct 2004
Location: Clarksville, AR
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quote:

---

Originally posted by yadkintar
A little trip down memorie lane jay I can't remember the year I believe it was the Texas state hunt we found out where lippers cast was going and we were up on the hill listening it wasent hard to figure out witch one was him that rascal would just scatter dogs on track and a baby could call him treed I think he won the whole hunt. Me and Gary Patterson went to toms and hunted with cash to this day the loudest dog I have ever heard went with lawyer and lightning too jay I know why you liked them and your not wrong for what you seen I agree with you but I was in a different time in lippers career and it was a god awfull lot of work lol ! This old female I got out here has a lot of rattler and lipper in her you remember how bozz operated when I brought him up there at 9 yrs old she operates just like that bozz was a rattler lipper product good luck with the pups you got coming jay your freind tar.

---

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Registered: Jan 2013
Location: Marietta
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I don't remember hunting him at the battle of the breeds but I might have Ryan crowson won the Oklahoma state champion ship with him for me I won the American heritage on Friday night I just can't remember but if so it was me found out he was sterile after that and quit competing with him after that.


Wjoey I got super thin coons here and it's ruff you can't ask for dogs with more heart although they crossed this old gyp of mine on the reezon dog I got one here and he don't have enough hustle to suit me and he is a little to much tree dog at times I will fool with him till I get my leg fixed and get somthing better then he has got to go.


Donnie Odessey kennel co has it he is advertising two dogs that are titled out of rattler and Jane there was a blood sample that went with it when it sold.

Last edited by yadkintar on 01-17-2017 at 01:05 PM

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Registered: Jan 2013
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quote:

---

Originally posted by Josh Michaelis
This is what id imagine a coon hunters retirement home to sound like lol.

---

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Registered: Jan 2011
Location: Rockmart, Ga.
Posts: 2652

Some of the best dogs ive ever hunted with had Lipper up close.

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Registered: Jan 2011
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Lipper blood from what ive seen is - hunt hard and go deep and find a coon and drive the track and have the coon when you get there. And dont sound like yard dogs either !!!!

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Registered: Jan 2013
Location: Marietta
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Well I am sure they can dig up some more seman all you hard core lipper boys can go buy you a puppy for $5,000 each and it will be bragged on for two years till its time to title it or shut up and it will be like its always been y'all will go silent and never be heard from again. This runs in cycles when sombodys got some they want to sell put them out there put in the the hunts or let it go one thing about it you ain't going to bull chit ole tar he's already been there and the kcs loved ole lipper he made them a million dollars and they had very little paper work to do.



Prove me wrong I want to see a dog directly out of lipper in the top 20 of next years world hunt should be easy for you to do Wjoey !

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Registered: Jan 2005
Location: N.W. Indiana
Posts: 1078

I know u ole timers think your experience and studying means something but it doesn't. If any of you knew the key the reproducing %'s would be increasing. Yes there is a few freak litters here and there that reproduced 50% or bettter but the norm is 20%. No matter what it's all a gamble. You can increase your odds by trying different crosses, getting them to quality pup trainers, getting them to competition hunters etc. I do know dogs throw certain traits in pups so we try to capitalize on those traits but still only a few will be quality out of most litters. Finding a cross that works higher than that is dumb luck. The average litter out of a top stud dog will have 1 or 2 nice ones 1-2 decent ones and the rest garbage. No one has a magic key to unlock this mystery. Coondog to Coondog doesn't always = Coondog. Lipper was a nice loud dog that threw some good traits and so was Rattler but the majority of both studs pups were garbage like any other dog. A few freak crosses may have whole litters doing good but I doubt many of those all finished to being exceptional hounds.

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Registered: Jan 2013
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Like I said I am just an old dog trainer that when and if I had the right dog I would compete. Let me put it to you like this you want to go eat a good hamburger you know where there is a good one everybody in town is going there buuuuut you got to stand in line for an hour to get a table then anouther 30 minutes for it to get cooked. Ok there's anouther place not as flashy but you don't have to wait you get right in your served quickly and the burger is just as good and affordable were you going to go.

Last edited by yadkintar on 01-17-2017 at 01:08 PM

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Registered: Aug 2003
Location: Yadkin County NC
Posts: 1657

You mentioned how trashy the Chico dogs were. I probably raised and trained more Chico dogs than anyone and myself and others were impressed with how few trash problems they had. Might have had something to do with raised running loose and deer thick as flys around here. However did have several that ran rabbits and treed squirrel as puppies but stopped when introduced to coon.
Kinda goes to show that the stud dog gets all the credit for all the good or bad. If in doubt just go back and reread your post.
Oh by the way, who was Chico's sire?

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