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wjoey
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Oct 2010
Location: La fayette Georgia
Posts: 606

quote:
Originally posted by H.W. Moore
$10 increase for pups up to 6mo will add $1000s
$200 to pay up pups 12-18mo currently ineligible If 50 dogs are payed =$10,000
$50 Sire increase will add $1000s
$10 Litter increase will add $1000s
$50 or less checks not processed will put $1,000s into the following years fund and no one would really miss it.

Ask yourself is it worth $10-$50 more per year to double a Performance Point increase entries, help out the clubs, and get bigger checks for wins?



Why don't you just donate to it since you like spending everyone else money

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423-802-4115
The home where the big time winners come from

Nt ch pkc ch BAM BAM The only one out of WORLD CH BIG D X GRNT SKIPPERS UMFORGIVEN SAIGE she has 21 pups 4nt ch 5 grnt ch thats 42.85%
He is a coon dog!
Nt ch ch Insane Minnie MouseInsane cain x Malden Branch Mouse
HOME OF 2 TIME AQHA HORSE OF THE YEAR
World champion working cow horse snaffle bit
SMART LITTLE LEGEND
ETCHA CHAMPION
HCHA CHAMPION
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Jerico Rebel our Movie star horse hes been in three films now 35 years old

Just passed away February 4th 2016

MY OLD DOGS GONE BUT NEVER FORGOTTEN
The one I will allways miss now deceased 01/09/2013
GR CH GRAND NT CH Handosme Trudy
SIRE PKC WLD CH GR NT WHATS UP DOC
DAM GR NT HUTCHINS SUGAR

GRCH GR NT CH COBBLER CREEK WENDY
GR NT STYLISH TUFF - WENDY X STYLISH LIPPER
GR NT STYLISH TACK - WENDY X STYLISH LIPPER

NT CH SOUTHERN STYLE - JP'S HIGH STYLE X HOUSES LADY

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Old Post 01-18-2017 05:14 PM
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shadinc
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jun 2014
Location: Louisiana
Posts: 1048

Any time money is involved..........well, you know.

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Old Post 01-18-2017 05:16 PM
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englishpride
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jan 2007
Location: South Carolina
Posts: 1134

No its not worth it.obviously you have no idea at what the stud owner already pays.and most of us wanna hunt something out our own dog.you have all these fee increases,not counting most of us keep at least 1 if not 2 of our own pups.not to mention wormer,shots,feed,my gosh if they increase it anymore it will sink the whole program.which is looking like it's gonna sink anyway.most people are not gonna pay anymore money anyway.so there for the stud owners are not gonna pay it the people that buy pups simply won't performance them and the fund wouldn't increase anyway.maybe the clubs should just go back to giVing out a nice trophy instead of just a yellow slip.or the club can always offer a light or 100 added on there own.I know you don't agree with this but look at most of the responses everyone is against o fee increase.

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Old Post 01-18-2017 05:19 PM
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H.W. Moore
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Dec 2016
Location: Ark/Miss
Posts: 110

If I owned a STUD payed it up in all the programs and did not make any money, break even or lost money, I wouldn't enter him in any programs or offer him at stud the following year as that would be an unwise financial decision. Because of fewer members and less entries clubs can't afford to purchase trophies like before. If you grand your dog out would you rather look at 11 $3 trophies or get a $1200 check?

Last edited by H.W. Moore on 01-18-2017 at 05:47 PM

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Old Post 01-18-2017 05:38 PM
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H.W. Moore
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Dec 2016
Location: Ark/Miss
Posts: 110

Fee increases are like TAXES very unpopular. I hate taxes paid over $21,000 in them last year. If they hadn't gone up in the last 10 years my road would still be gravel, I'd still have well water, my school would have outdated computers and disgruntled teachers, fewer police officers and higher crime rates, 1000s of acres less public hunting and higher fees to use what's there. I hate TAX increases. Are they necessary? ABSOLUTELY

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Old Post 01-18-2017 06:01 PM
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H.W. Moore
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Dec 2016
Location: Ark/Miss
Posts: 110

quote:
Originally posted by wjoey
Why don't you just donate to it since you like spending everyone else money
1 person could donate a LARGE sum to help everyone who benefits from these programs out. Or everyone who benefits from these programs could pay a SMALL increase and help themselves. .

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Old Post 01-18-2017 06:18 PM
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ov_blues
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Feb 2007
Location: Pomeroy, Ohio
Posts: 2213

quote:
Originally posted by H.W. Moore
$10 increase for pups up to 6mo will add $1000s
$200 to pay up pups 12-18mo currently ineligible If 50 dogs are payed =$10,000
$50 Sire increase will add $1000s
$10 Litter increase will add $1000s
$50 or less checks not processed will put $1,000s into the following years fund and no one would really miss it.

Ask yourself is it worth $10-$50 more per year to double a Performance Point increase entries, help out the clubs, and get bigger checks for wins?



Your assuming that the same amount of dogs will be enrolled as performance sires and performance pups. I believe that less will be enrolled nullifying the fee increase. Just my opinion.

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Old Post 01-18-2017 06:18 PM
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englishpride
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jan 2007
Location: South Carolina
Posts: 1134

If every single stud owner that was to completely quit paying up the program if at least 2 outside people didn't breed for 200 or more to his stud then the program would fall anyway.there is zero money to be made in the stud business unless you win the world.which means all these performance pups you see wouldn't be here.go look at the performance sires.most breed to see what our stud is throwing or breed for a pup.us stud owners obviously don't have the money you have if your willing to increase fees all across the board.

__________________
GRNTCH GRCH 'PR' ENGLISH PRIDE'S LITTLE LIZ
NITE CH.Englishprides Williams' Miracle
.Nite Ch.ENGLISH PRIDE'S Miss Daisey
Nite ch Englishprides Carolina Jasmine
Bobby Williams-803-288-3112

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Old Post 01-18-2017 06:27 PM
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rob thompson
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jan 2016
Location: Bois d'Arc, MO.
Posts: 1008

quote:
Originally posted by H.W. Moore
If I owned a STUD payed it up in all the programs and did not make any money, break even or lost money, I wouldn't enter him in any programs or offer him at stud the following year as that would be an unwise financial decision. Because of fewer members and less entries clubs can't afford to purchase trophies like before. If you grand your dog out would you rather look at 11 $3 trophies or get a $1200 check?
i bred for pups to hunt just paid him up to help the few folks who bought pups out. It's a hobby and hobbies don't make sense financially most of the time. If it goes up I'll just pay super stakes next time.

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Old Post 01-18-2017 06:35 PM
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H.W. Moore
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Dec 2016
Location: Ark/Miss
Posts: 110

quote:
Originally posted by ov_blues
Your assuming that the same amount of dogs will be enrolled as performance sires and performance pups. I believe that less will be enrolled nullifying the fee increase. Just my opinion.
Allowing 12-18mo old's to be enrolled at $200 alone should offset people getting out or not paying up do to minor increases.

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Old Post 01-18-2017 06:50 PM
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H.W. Moore
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Dec 2016
Location: Ark/Miss
Posts: 110

quote:
Originally posted by H.W. Moore
I would have thought long overdue slight increases & minor changes to double Performance check payouts would have been welcome, I was wrong. On the flip side as payouts and attendance continue to fall its very easy to title a dog! We've lost the Melbourne, Pleasant plains, Brookland, and Algoa clubs in my area with 2 more about to fold barring a miracle, I hope someone has a plan.
I don't think increases are coming soon. I'll give a free 5 year financial projection though. Point value, attendance, and club membership will continue to fall. Clubs will continue to be forced into closure due to lost revenue. Pup prices will remain stagnant and become harder to sell thus minimizing the need for studs who aren't heavily promoted. Cost vs. Reward will be to small to entice younger people to compete and New hunter numbers will continue to decline. And rather it's tomorrow or 5 years or 10, Ukc will raise fees to offset lost revenue..

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Old Post 01-18-2017 07:18 PM
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Doug Adams
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Oct 2006
Location: mechanicsburg, Oh
Posts: 1129

I know I'm in the minority with this statement but I'd pay more entry fee if I could possibly win a trophy.. everyone says they don't care about the dust collectors but I've enjoyed bragging on my for many years and my son enjoys the stories of how they were won! I won some in the $ hunts. The couple hundred here and there I blew on McDonald's or dog feed and now there is nothing to show the win and makes the story far less entertaining to others! I'll take a dust collector over a little bit of $ any day. Now if it was big $ I would rather have $ of course but I don't have enough power to worry about that lol.

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Old Post 01-18-2017 07:58 PM
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rob thompson
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jan 2016
Location: Bois d'Arc, MO.
Posts: 1008

quote:
Originally posted by Doug Adams
I know I'm in the minority with this statement but I'd pay more entry fee if I could possibly win a trophy.. everyone says they don't care about the dust collectors but I've enjoyed bragging on my for many years and my son enjoys the stories of how they were won! I won some in the $ hunts. The couple hundred here and there I blew on McDonald's or dog feed and now there is nothing to show the win and makes the story far less entertaining to others! I'll take a dust collector over a little bit of $ any day. Now if it was big $ I would rather have $ of course but I don't have enough power to worry about that lol.
x2

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Old Post 01-18-2017 08:30 PM
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rob thompson
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jan 2016
Location: Bois d'Arc, MO.
Posts: 1008

quote:
Originally posted by H.W. Moore
I don't think increases are coming soon. I'll give a free 5 year financial projection though. Point value, attendance, and club membership will continue to fall. Clubs will continue to be forced into closure due to lost revenue. Pup prices will remain stagnant and become harder to sell thus minimizing the need for studs who aren't heavily promoted. Cost vs. Reward will be to small to entice younger people to compete and New hunter numbers will continue to decline. And rather it's tomorrow or 5 years or 10, Ukc will raise fees to offset lost revenue..
any body ever consider the reason young people don't come to hunts has nothing to do with money? And the people that quit comp. Hunting didn't quit because of money? Maybe it's the people they had to deal with!

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Old Post 01-18-2017 08:35 PM
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wjoey
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Oct 2010
Location: La fayette Georgia
Posts: 606

quote:
Originally posted by H.W. Moore
I don't think increases are coming soon. I'll give a free 5 year financial projection though. Point value, attendance, and club membership will continue to fall. Clubs will continue to be forced into closure due to lost revenue. Pup prices will remain stagnant and become harder to sell thus minimizing the need for studs who aren't heavily promoted. Cost vs. Reward will be to small to entice younger people to compete and New hunter numbers will continue to decline. And rather it's tomorrow or 5 years or 10, Ukc will raise fees to offset lost revenue..
I agree with that but raising prices is not the answer .

__________________
JOE WILBANKS
423-802-4115
The home where the big time winners come from

Nt ch pkc ch BAM BAM The only one out of WORLD CH BIG D X GRNT SKIPPERS UMFORGIVEN SAIGE she has 21 pups 4nt ch 5 grnt ch thats 42.85%
He is a coon dog!
Nt ch ch Insane Minnie MouseInsane cain x Malden Branch Mouse
HOME OF 2 TIME AQHA HORSE OF THE YEAR
World champion working cow horse snaffle bit
SMART LITTLE LEGEND
ETCHA CHAMPION
HCHA CHAMPION
Top 16 NCHA WORLD Champion
Home of GHSRA All Around Cowboy Champion Chris wilbanks
Jerico Rebel our Movie star horse hes been in three films now 35 years old

Just passed away February 4th 2016

MY OLD DOGS GONE BUT NEVER FORGOTTEN
The one I will allways miss now deceased 01/09/2013
GR CH GRAND NT CH Handosme Trudy
SIRE PKC WLD CH GR NT WHATS UP DOC
DAM GR NT HUTCHINS SUGAR

GRCH GR NT CH COBBLER CREEK WENDY
GR NT STYLISH TUFF - WENDY X STYLISH LIPPER
GR NT STYLISH TACK - WENDY X STYLISH LIPPER

NT CH SOUTHERN STYLE - JP'S HIGH STYLE X HOUSES LADY

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Old Post 01-18-2017 10:53 PM
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wjoey
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Oct 2010
Location: La fayette Georgia
Posts: 606

quote:
Originally posted by H.W. Moore
I don't think increases are coming soon. I'll give a free 5 year financial projection though. Point value, attendance, and club membership will continue to fall. Clubs will continue to be forced into closure due to lost revenue. Pup prices will remain stagnant and become harder to sell thus minimizing the need for studs who aren't heavily promoted. Cost vs. Reward will be to small to entice younger people to compete and New hunter numbers will continue to decline. And rather it's tomorrow or 5 years or 10, Ukc will raise fees to offset lost revenue..
I agree with that but raising prices is not the answer .

__________________
JOE WILBANKS
423-802-4115
The home where the big time winners come from

Nt ch pkc ch BAM BAM The only one out of WORLD CH BIG D X GRNT SKIPPERS UMFORGIVEN SAIGE she has 21 pups 4nt ch 5 grnt ch thats 42.85%
He is a coon dog!
Nt ch ch Insane Minnie MouseInsane cain x Malden Branch Mouse
HOME OF 2 TIME AQHA HORSE OF THE YEAR
World champion working cow horse snaffle bit
SMART LITTLE LEGEND
ETCHA CHAMPION
HCHA CHAMPION
Top 16 NCHA WORLD Champion
Home of GHSRA All Around Cowboy Champion Chris wilbanks
Jerico Rebel our Movie star horse hes been in three films now 35 years old

Just passed away February 4th 2016

MY OLD DOGS GONE BUT NEVER FORGOTTEN
The one I will allways miss now deceased 01/09/2013
GR CH GRAND NT CH Handosme Trudy
SIRE PKC WLD CH GR NT WHATS UP DOC
DAM GR NT HUTCHINS SUGAR

GRCH GR NT CH COBBLER CREEK WENDY
GR NT STYLISH TUFF - WENDY X STYLISH LIPPER
GR NT STYLISH TACK - WENDY X STYLISH LIPPER

NT CH SOUTHERN STYLE - JP'S HIGH STYLE X HOUSES LADY

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Old Post 01-18-2017 10:53 PM
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H.W. Moore
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Dec 2016
Location: Ark/Miss
Posts: 110

quote:
Originally posted by wjoey
I agree with that but raising prices is not the answer .
Thanks, I've never missed a projection. I don't know of a greater motivator than money. I wish there was a better answer. I drew out with a man recently wearing a new Gravedigger light using a new Alpha griping because his $600 dog was losing. I guess I've been telling people how to properly invest their money so long it's spilling over into my hobby.

Last edited by H.W. Moore on 01-19-2017 at 03:22 AM

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Old Post 01-19-2017 03:20 AM
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Richard Lambert
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Aug 2004
Location: Chattanooga, Tn
Posts: 9906

quote:
Originally posted by H.W. Moore
Thanks, I've never missed a projection. I don't know of a greater motivator than money.


Oh my goodness, is that what you tell your clients? You must be a millionaire.

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Old Post 01-19-2017 02:46 PM
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johnny reb
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Nov 2004
Location: tennessee
Posts: 317

Everyone is complaining about the talk of a $10 dollar increase per pup or $50 per sire. I guarantee you will waist that same money on something over a years tTime. It sounds like the program needs some changes I pay mine up if there eligible. Maybe they need too start a program like the super stakes for performance pups. Have a 1 year old and 2 year old division. Have 1 big hunt a year and pay out the performance money like that

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Old Post 01-19-2017 04:47 PM
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H.W. Moore
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Dec 2016
Location: Ark/Miss
Posts: 110

Days of making a lot of money off dogs is about over. Raising pups when there's already to many and offering a stud when there's several in every state makes it tough. If you have a nice dog you can still Win money especially if its eligible for the programs. I noticed people with studs or raising litters were more against small increases vs. the hunters and club members.

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Old Post 01-19-2017 05:14 PM
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Richard Lambert
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Aug 2004
Location: Chattanooga, Tn
Posts: 9906

The best way to improve a program is to increase the cost to join the program? That sounds like the way some people in our government think. I would think that the best way to improve a program would be to make it more efficient.
And "money is the best motivator"? Doesn't that go against the principles that UKC is built on?

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Old Post 01-19-2017 07:28 PM
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H.W. Moore
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Dec 2016
Location: Ark/Miss
Posts: 110

quote:
Originally posted by Richard Lambert
The best way to improve a program is to increase the cost to join the program? That sounds like the way some people in our government think. I would think that the best way to improve a program would be to make it more efficient.
And "money is the best motivator"? Doesn't that go against the principles that UKC is built on?

Yes, if it improves the pay out, increases interest and helps the clubs. Has your phone, cable, gas, or retirement program increased in the last 10 years?

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Old Post 01-19-2017 09:10 PM
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