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quote:

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Originally posted by wart
it don't take much to tree coons folks

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Mr Richards you are correct a good accurate dog can tree them all year around thick or thinner coon,the problem is producing these kind regularly for some reason they are hard to come buy

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You are correct, they are hard to come by, but if you will not settle for less, they can be found. I think most folks just settle for decent when they should be wanting excellent. I learned at an early age that there were dogs and a few that were actually coon dogs. I try hard to hunt and own what I call a coon dog, but they have been few and far between in my case. I have found out that the more you demand the better the dog you will have, it's when you settle for less is when you get less. Dave

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Dave Richards Treeing Walkers Reg American Saddlebred and Registered Rocky Mt. Show Horses

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I am a little excited, my hunting partner and I have bought a half brother to his dog, just out of a younger litter that has the tools to be special. We do not summer hunt, but are looking forward to fall when WE can start polishing on this dog. I am starting to walk better on my leg with the torn ACL, and this dog has me excited for Fall and Winter hunting season. I needed something to motivate me to hunt this coming year and I hope this dog continues to excite me. Dave

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Dave Richards Treeing Walkers Reg American Saddlebred and Registered Rocky Mt. Show Horses

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quote:

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Originally posted by MUSKY
To me they are one in the same, stay treed with a coon, get open on the ground, go hunting and come when called. I am primarily a pleasure hunter but make no mistake a top pleasure dog will also excel in competition. I refuse to shock a dog for backing a dog, if they aren’t doing something on their own where I live they better get a piece of the action. I don’t expect them to be alone, I expect them to be first. Turning 4 dogs loose and they go 4 different directions isn’t competition at all. Around 1985-1995 at any local hunt in the country you could see real deal coondogs that were stiff and those same dogs were hunted by guys who put up hides all winter with them, if the fur market would come back so would the better dogs. Very few people hunt enough to truly make a good one.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Reuben


Something that really has had me thinking...why is it a dogs pedigree can be stacked with grand night champions, a few night champions and world champions yet the common talk is that they don’t produce???

My thoughts are that if they cannot reproduce themselves then there is something wrong with the system that titles them...these dogs should reproduce a decent percentage of likeness...

Redbones produce almost 100 percent red dogs...may have slightly different shades of red...

Black n Tans produce Black and Tan...

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Training dogs is not so much about quantity, it's more about timing, and the right situations...After that it's up to the dog....A hunting dog is born...

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The debate over meat dog vs competition dog is kind of silly, first a coon dog is a coon dog period. I do not care if you pleasure hunt or competition hunt, the objective is to tree coons, not trees. The best dogs I have owned and or hunted with were both top meat dogs and top COMPETITION DOGS. A lot of folks like to say that a competition dog is faster locating a tree, etc than a meat dog which is just not true. The very best dog I ever owned or hunted with was deadly accurate and you could tree her on her locate, she did not locate if the coon was not there and she was a TOP competition dog . Dave

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Dave Richards Treeing Walkers Reg American Saddlebred and Registered Rocky Mt. Show Horses

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quote:

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Originally posted by Dave Richards
The debate over meat dog vs competition dog is kind of silly, first a coon dog is a coon dog period. I do not care if you pleasure hunt or competition hunt, the objective is to tree coons, not trees. The best dogs I have owned and or hunted with were both top meat dogs and top COMPETITION DOGS. A lot of folks like to say that a competition dog is faster locating a tree, etc than a meat dog which is just not true. The very best dog I ever owned or hunted with was deadly accurate and you could tree her on her locate, she did not locate if the coon was not there and she was a TOP competition dog . Dave

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Training dogs is not so much about quantity, it's more about timing, and the right situations...After that it's up to the dog....A hunting dog is born...

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quote:

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Originally posted by Reuben
Dave...I agree with you...

I am pushing the issue as to why a stacked pedigree loaded with all types of champions can reproduce so low percentages of top dogs...

Bruce and Tar answered some of those questions as to why but no one has offered solutions to change that...

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Ridgerunner1988

Last edited by Ridgerunner1988 on 07-18-2020 at 07:28 PM

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[QUOTE]Originally posted by Ridgerunner1988
One solution would be not breeding to any female that is brought to them just for the money received from the stud fee. To many brood females are bred for stud fee and the money a pup will bring from a big name stud dog. The female needs to be a proven coondog before its bred, that compliments what the stud has to offer. Both dogs need to compliment each on hunting ability before there bred. To many people breed just for the money in the hound world, not all do this thee is some that are trying to do it the right way but alot do not. [/QOTE]



BEST ANSWER to a good question. Dave

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Dave Richards Treeing Walkers Reg American Saddlebred and Registered Rocky Mt. Show Horses

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About 40 years ago a fellow moved in next to me and told me had the best coon dog in Louisiana. Naturally I had to hunt with him. He had permission to hunt a good spot of private land with plenty coons. He turned the dog out and when he barked the man broke for him like a quarter horse. When we got to him he was running in circles with his nose on the ground. Then the got on a tree, barked twice and put his nose back on the ground again. The man said there he is. Sho nuf there was a coon in the tree. He did this three more times that night. Had a coon every time. He was a good locater but wasn't much of a tree dog. He caught over 100 coons with that dog that winter. Might've been the best meat dog in Louisiana, but I think he would have come up a little short on a competition hunt..

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Donald Bergeron

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Not in these mountains he would not be a good meat dog, you DO NOT run to trees up here. You may crawl to some, but definitely no running, not even in my younger days. Lol. Dave

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Dave Richards Treeing Walkers Reg American Saddlebred and Registered Rocky Mt. Show Horses

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Read all these comments and enjoyed them but the one thing that I think can separate a really good Meat dog from a competition dog is how he gets treed. A good meat dog can located hard on two or three trees before he parks where the coon is. That can be very hard on a handler in competition unless the dog has a total different locate when he's sure. I have a good young dog that will locate hard maybe 2-3 times on a feeding track. Sometimes your ready to say that's it and then he gets quiet, maybe moves 50 yards and sits down with the coon. On a good track when he locates he's done. But I would think this would keep him from being a top competition dog. But really not a problem pleasure hunting him. I do think he will get better with a little age and experience.

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Tom Wood

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You are correct in saying some dogs can be good pleasure dogs without being good competition dogs. I think some dogs are good meat and competition dogs in the same package, it just depends on the dog. I will always take the top meat dog over a competition dog that's not a good meat dog. Dave

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Dave Richards Treeing Walkers Reg American Saddlebred and Registered Rocky Mt. Show Horses

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Back in the day dogs packed for 3 long hours so a dog couldn’t milk dud around getting treed or sombody would steal first tree. They had to locate fast and be accurate and stay.



Tar

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quote:

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Originally posted by yadkintar
Back in the day dogs packed for 3 long hours so a dog couldn’t milk dud around getting treed or sombody would steal first tree. They had to locate fast and be accurate and stay.



Tar

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quote:

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Originally posted by Reuben
Dave...I agree with you...

I am pushing the issue as to why a stacked pedigree loaded with all types of champions can reproduce so low percentages of top dogs...

Bruce and Tar answered some of those questions as to why but no one has offered solutions to change that...

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Eric DePue
Hill Country Kennels Itty-Bitty
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And
Partners on a few common trashy young dogs

Gone but not forgotten

GrNtCh, PKC Ch Hillbilly Bildo
Pr Broken Oaks Wild Blue Gypsy

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quote:

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Originally posted by nextcoonhunters
Now days dogs don't pack for 1short hour so a dog can't milk dud around getting treed or somebody else will tree first. They have to locate fast and be accurate and stay until you get there.
Just saying

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Which is better 1 coon in 90 min or no coon in 3 hrs
Hmmm
Just sayin

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quote:

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Originally posted by nextcoonhunters
Which is better 1 coon in 90 min or no coon in 3 hrs
Hmmm
Just sayin

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quote:

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Originally posted by yadkintar
Been a while but last time I competed 3 first in 3 hunts and high scoring dog all 3 times. And there was daggum shore More than one coon treed on them cast. Up north were those hunts are there should be no excuse. I live in the crappiest hunting there is lots of coons but miserable hunting.


2 hour cast I won’t pack a 1 coon in 1 hour dog.



Tar

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Ridgerunner1988

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Eric, in the last 10 year's there have been 10 World Champions. I wonder how many pups were born in the last 10 year's? What percentage would that be?
I wonder how many good meat dogs there have been in the last 10 year's?

Last edited by Richard Lambert on 07-19-2020 at 08:24 PM

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a meat dog bought my first car when I was in 11th grade ,if he barked 3 times you could load the gun .nose had nothing much to do with his coon treeing ability . he had burning hate for a coon and a burning desire to sink his teeth in them , he hunted mostly by sight and if a coon ran he would catch them and kill or bay them until you arrived , one man alone on a night coon were moving could not skin and carry the coons he would put up, he was a coon treeing killing machine, half border collie half Australian shepherd .after 40 years of coon hunting I have never seen or owned a hound that I think could have won a coon treeing contest against ralph .lol

Last edited by thomasg on 07-19-2020 at 11:20 PM

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It’s really not about how many coon is treed in an hour or 3 if it was a such thing anymore. It’s about whoever has what it takes to win the cast . Might it be less minus , most circle. Granted whatever it may be , if you can get past what happens before the dog looks up more than likely it will be plus points. The way I see it being nowadays is that a man can win 4500.00 in two nights hunting, more than that in some hunts.I don’t think they really care how many hides their dog can gather or how many titles the past dogs in their dogs pedigree has. It’s a money driven sport now. It would probably be a proven fact that if competition hunting came to a end a lot of folks would quit all together.The tradition of going coon hunting in general is gone or dying at a rapid pace.

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When I started if you didn’t sell hides or sell a dog there was no money in it. They sure wasent getting rich on those $50 and $75 stud fees. But for $40 you could go to a hunt and all day you could eat good food, enjoy the day events , socialize, and maybe win a big trophy if you was packing a meat dog.



Tar

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