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Tim Green
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Dec 2003
Location: Burkburnett, TX
Posts: 503

The goal of the modern day coon hunter

This is a discussion thread.

I think we can all agree that coon hunting today is different than it was 10, 20, 30, + years ago. Dog’s are different, hunters are different, how long we hunt, etc.

So, has the hunter’s goals changed? Are they just wanting the next best thing to go win money? Is the goal still, go win a world title? Does that even matter to today’s hunter? Does hunter’s today even have a goal? Does the young kid still dream of owning that awesome pup that turns into a culmination of all his or her hard work when it trees it’s first coon on its own? Just doesn’t seem like it.

Has the breeder’s goals changed? Is it about breeding to sell high dollar pups? Is it studying pedigrees and looking for specific traits to improve your current line? Does anybody even do that any more? Is the goal to create all grand pedigrees because they look cool? Is the goal to have a stud dog....seems like everyone has one of those?

Does the registries have goals? Is it attract more youth? Is it just have Big hunts and give more money away? Does small clubs have goals other than take care of 7 people that come to every hunt and get their turn at winning?

Does anyone just pleasure hunt any more?

I don’t expect answers from anyone to all those questions. I just know this sport has changed over the years and it seems to be a job more than just enjoyment of raising a good hound, walking behind a good hound, and enjoying the fellowship of being together in this sport.

Tim

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arkansas cooner
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Registered: Sep 2005
Location:
Posts: 419

I’m probably younger than most on here (30) but am more old school in my way of doing things because of how I was raised. Taken over my my grandpas and dads goals has been something that I’ll cherish and strive to do before I die and hopefully my 1 year old son someday will keep it going.

We are hard hunting men that has kept a family of dogs and try to keep that line going and making it better every cross. We love to pleasure hunt but love to conk hunt too. Don’t care about the money but would love for us to have a World Champion that came off our place.

I don’t know if that answers your questions but im not into the new era, we will keep doing our thing.

My favorite trophy of all is the one at the end of kill season with all the hides nailed on the barn and the dogs in front. That picture means more to me than anything in the industry of coon hunting

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Cory Highfill
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Oct 2004
Location: Clarksville, AR
Posts: 1074

My goal/objective for a hound is relatively simple, but increasingly hard to come by. I want a dog I can turn loose in an area where I expect a coon to live, and I want that dog to tree it. I don't care if the coon stirred an hour ago. I don't care if it's on the ground when I cut loose. I don't care if there's water, or corn fields, or mountain and bluffs. My personal preference is a semi-tight mouthed dog, that is an above average treedog. I like for mine to be putting on a show when I get there. When he or she trees, I want it to be over, no exceptions.

I don't want to walk a dog.
I don't want to whip one off trees.
I hate a box barker, and absolutely, positively hate mouthy.


I can stand trashy.
I can stand an average mouth.
I can stand ugly.

I will never tolerate a kennel barker again.
I will never deal with another poop stomper.
I won't give a dog pills for optimum performance.

The next one I own will possess most of these attributes, or it won't be the next one I own, pedigree, competition, and flavor of the month be ****ed.

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Dave Richards
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Registered: Apr 2015
Location: church hill tn
Posts: 5612

Cory

X2. Dave

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Bruce m. Conkey
UKC Forum Member

Registered: May 2016
Location: Palatka, FL
Posts: 5103

.

Tim one thing I think we overlook on here is the Coon Hunters Foundation. This is a coon hound fourm and we mostly talk about coon hounds. We are also a group that want our hounds to run nothing but a coon. The foundation of what our coon hunters are built on, is what will carry us into the future. Up north when the pelts were high and many years ago when according to some on here the events were at a higher level. Coon Hunting had a stronger foundation.
I can only speak for down here in the South and the young hunters in this area. Most of them have cut their teeth following their fathers deer hounds or fox hounds. Many bear hunt and hog hunt. Many of them know dogs in and out. They just don't know the in and outs of coon hunting, especially competition coon hunting. Many come into the sport but bring a foundation of dog knowledge with them. Many like coon hunting and they stick with it and they are our future. The other side of the coin is the young, many with NO ROOTS in hunting. They read a story or see a coonhound and think that is what they want. What they are wanting is to get into the most advanced dog hunting with NO knowledge of dogs. I am not sure if the GOALS and DREAMS have changed with anyone wanting to Coon Hunt. But the foundation of the people getting into coon hunting has changed and it makes the sport look shaky at times.
I am not knocking anyone with dreams to coon hunt without any knowledge at all. That was me 55 years ago. I often wished I had a family foundation into coonhunting and just not a book with pretty pictures of coon hounds.

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yadkintar
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Registered: Jan 2013
Location: Marietta
Posts: 10790

There is one simple question if you can answer it you will make the young hunters get interested again :



How do you gain interest to the young hunters when it has at times been uninteresting to us that have done it our whole lives ?


Ukc rule 2A award 100 points to the dog that opens first.


$$$ rule you can win without plus points.


Both of those make me loose interest and I am a lifer lol.

Tar

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Bruce m. Conkey
UKC Forum Member

Registered: May 2016
Location: Palatka, FL
Posts: 5103

.

Tar the rules and all the ice cream you can give them. Doesn't bring them in. These young minds are not lured by rules that they know nothing about. If someone doesn't mentor them or they find a coon hunting partner to competition or pleasure hunt with. They will be gone before the Ice Cream melts.

I know several young men down here that coon hunt and try competition coonhunting. They do not view the hunts the same way people with a history in the hunts do. They do not like the same kinds of hunt formats that older people are use to. Some don't understand state races and could care less. I can't explain why or how they decide what they like. But I can tell you it is different than what I like. So instead of me trying to sell them the Flavor of Ice Cream I like. I try and learn to like the taste of theirs. Then I can at least explain some of the differences to them.

We all want UKC to change. I think some of the registries have changed too much. Several hunt formats with the same goals gets confusing. Sure, choose the one you like and stick with it. In what ever you do. If your going to be successful. Find your lane and stay in it till the pavement runs out.

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yadkintar
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Registered: Jan 2013
Location: Marietta
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Bruce I can’t speak for no where else but I talked to several the other night and this is what was discussed. If these three things pass.


Hunt director gets to hunt ( for the simple fact if I have a bigger turnout than I have guides I can put them in a good place to hunt ).


Tree countdown and no leash lock.


They want the double header 1 hr minie slams you get performance points. You get a win to your title and you get cash that night. My building is free so all it cost is my hunt packet. The bench show pays for the hunt packet. If only 4 young people show up I can build on that I can take them hunting and spend time with them I ain’t stuck at the club many of our mentors are stuck at the club.


Tar

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Bruce m. Conkey
UKC Forum Member

Registered: May 2016
Location: Palatka, FL
Posts: 5103

.

For those with some experience and an understanding then they should have a voice in shaping the coon hound world. The registries should listen or have ambassadors to explain why they can't go in that direction.

Please remember this. Look at the USA. We took parenting out of the families. We took discipline out of schools. We took a value of system of working for what you want out of peoples lives. Turn on the news and see what giving people what they want has done for this Country.

Everyone wants to change the rules to make them work for themselves. Your age, your physical ability, your dogs ability, your gender (even if you have more than one) LOL Can anyone or anything just perform under a system already in place. There is a difference in tweaking something and over hauling something. We like to overhaul and overhaul until what we started with is not recgonized anymore. Tweak a pretty woman and you have a prettier woman. Over haul her with face lift after face lift and WOW. That the WOW doesn't stand for Wicks Outdoor Works either. It stands for something you can't recognize.

Anyway Tar. Enjoyed pulling your chain a little this morning. The stores are fixing to open and I have some things to get done today. As always, God Bless and have a good day!

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yadkintar
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Re: .

quote:
Originally posted by Bruce m. Conkey
For those with some experience and an understanding then they should have a voice in shaping the coon hound world. The registries should listen or have ambassadors to explain why they can't go in that direction.

Please remember this. Look at the USA. We took what parenting out of the families. We took discipline out of schools. We took a value of system of working for what you want out of peoples lives. Turn on the news and see what giving people what they want has done for this Country.

Everyone wants to change the rules to make them work for themselves. Your age, your physical ability, your dogs ability, your gender (even if you have more than one) LOL Can anyone or anything just perform under a system already in place. There is a difference in tweaking something and over hauling something. We like to overhaul and overhaul until what we started with is not recgonized anymore. Tweak a pretty woman and you have a prettier woman. Over haul her with face lift after face lift and WOW. That the WOW doesn't stand for Wicks Outdoor Works either. It stands for something you can't recognize.

Anyway Tar. Enjoyed pulling your chain a little this morning. The stores are fixing to open and I have some things to get done today. As always, God Bless and have a good day!





Well you know how my mind works before when we only had ukc and hide hunted in the winter the system was wonderfull. Buuuuuuuut when the hides became worthless and the $$$ hunts started and those guys adapted those dogs to fit those rules to win that big money that took the place of the hide dog. Then they looked over here and it dawned on them our rules have gray areas and loopholes that fit their dog. So in turn you only see them show up at the hunts with big prize packages. They do not support year around like most. So yes we need an overhaul to level the playing field ole rover that trees coons every night and wins at the local level ain’t no match mr coonhunter and ole flame thrower that was man made to fit the loopholes in the rules to win.


Tar

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pamjohnson
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Feb 2012
Location: airville,pa
Posts: 2072

I look at some of the fellows that like the big $ comp hunts and they generally have 1 hound. They don't care about breeding it. Some don't even know there own dogs breeding. There is just one simple goal Win. To me this would be maybe the easiest simplest way to enjoy coon hunting. Not the cheapest or most lay back way.
Trying to breed a line of dogs has to be the hardest with the most challenges.

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Sgraves
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Registered: Dec 2017
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I agree that having one dog is the way to go. My hat is off to the guys that has spent their whole life breeding the same line dogs. If it goes your way that in itself is a goal many will never accomplish . Am not a very religious man. I believe there is a one an only true God. His ways are the only way a man should go by. By saying that I mean, there is no absolute truth in this country no more. Whatever floats a persons boat is the law of the land these days. Life will not work an the things we do will not work if everyone has their own way. Has to be a set standard. You can teach a kid an they will learn. But , they will learn faster by what they see. I believe seeing the coon is the only way it should be done. I was told that when there is money involved there has to be a winner. Don’t agree with that. That only creates a win with no cost mentality. Yes, it takes a coon dog to win the big money. There is just to many ways a man has in his favor these days. If you want to see how a real coon dog should operate go on Greg Maynard’s Facebook page an watch the play by play on the brown county blowout . Profit is a coon dog in my book.

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Sgraves
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I agree that having one dog is the way to go. My hat is off to the guys that has spent their whole life breeding the same line dogs. If it goes your way that in itself is a goal many will never accomplish . Am not a very religious man. I believe there is a one an only true God. His ways are the only way a man should go by. By saying that I mean, there is no absolute truth in this country no more. Whatever floats a persons boat is the law of the land these days. Life will not work an the things we do will not work if everyone has their own way. Has to be a set standard. You can teach a kid an they will learn. But , they will learn faster by what they see. I believe seeing the coon is the only way it should be done. I was told that when there is money involved there has to be a winner. Don’t agree with that. That only creates a win with no cost mentality. Yes, it takes a coon dog to win the big money. There is just to many ways a man has in his favor these days. If you want to see how a real coon dog should operate go on Greg Maynard’s Facebook page an watch the play by play on the brown county blowout . Profit is a coon dog in my book.

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Adam Wingler
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Registered: Mar 2006
Location: Western NC
Posts: 1529

quote:
Originally posted by pamjohnson
I look at some of the fellows that like the big $ comp hunts and they generally have 1 hound. They don't care about breeding it. Some don't even know there own dogs breeding. There is just one simple goal Win. To me this would be maybe the easiest simplest way to enjoy coon hunting. Not the cheapest or most lay back way.
Trying to breed a line of dogs has to be the hardest with the most challenges.



Absolutely! And that's why I never wanted to be a breeder. Ha.

It's a heckuva lot easier to jump on that bandwagon of a line or cross that best fits a person and where they live. Breeders, REAL breeders, do NOT get enough recognition.

I listened recently to the new Houndman XP Podcast where they interviewed Randy Smith. Goodness you could hear it in the man's voice what an accomplishment it was to win the world with breeding even he admitted to only building onto from many, many years ago. And to hear him describe how he wants a hound to operate wouldn't even fire up many of today's wham-bam-slam-a-tree dog lovers.

For youth, a coon HAS to be in that tree at the end of the walk, they WANT to shoot something, plain and simple. And it's built onto from that point forward.

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Bruce m. Conkey
UKC Forum Member

Registered: May 2016
Location: Palatka, FL
Posts: 5103

.

Pamjohnson breeding a line of hounds is something I wanted back in the late 60's. Then I met other breeders and I soon found out that there motors ran on a different fuel. I am Thankful for all of them that dedicated their lives to breeding and hence giving me a choice. But the egos, do anything to the other guy to stay on top. Didn't fit my personality. Then to build your kennel out of your bloodlines, all to often you close your eyes to other bloodlines. Problem is most of what your closing your eyes and mind to are better than what your trying to produce. Just doesn't have your name on it. I have purchased a lot of pups one at a time over the years. Everyone I purchased was out of a top hound. From a bloodline I believed in. Not any bloodline I claimed, but one that produced pups through genetics that handled my style of hunting. Thats the beauty of hounds. We all start out dreaming and have different ways of getting there.

I did decide to make a cross and have six puppies here right now that are 5 weeks old. I raised the mother from a pup and the father from a pup. I already know what the pups problems will be and where their good points will shine. My most important feature I require in a pup that I might breed. Is any young person can take that pup and if given a chance. It will make some type of coonhound and train the young person along the way. I generally give them away and the top dog men stay away from those type of hounds. So, no pup will ever be a big winner from here. But they will bring pleasure and a big smile to someone.
The most important thing that breeders in my opinion miss is being responsible for the pups they have born. People ask about breeding this to that and what should I breed all the time. Breed anything you want if your will be honest about the offspring and handle your mistakes responsibily. If your breeding to make a dollar. Then Don't Breed. Pups are not cheap to raise. If you have no problems and propery worm them and give them puppy shots. Even doing it yourself you have a couple hundred bucks into it. Then puppy feed and proper living quarters cost a lot. Then you register them and using say two registration places and if the sire is in the breeding programs. There is several more hundred bucks spent. All this for 6 pups to give away. You have to just love doing it. I didn't mention running an air conditioner in the puppy building. Feeding morning and night.

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Hittman
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Registered: Jan 2013
Location: Thackerville Ok
Posts: 202

I know for myself my goal is to have and put my bloodline iam working on at the top and enjoy it at the same time. I know it will take time to achieve. I know when I was a kid I use to get excited when the American cooner was in the mail. I use to like looking at all the stud ads and I would tell myself one day I'll be there.

I believe today problem in the world of coonhunting is greed. Poeple expect something for something. I know for one when I was a kid my family ran a very successful club in Cleburne Tx. They didnt ask for anything and the members all pitched in on there part not looking for nothing but a place for the family to have a place to go have fun.

I think if UKC had 4 or 5 state reps in each state to make sure the clubs where getting support and funds needed to run clubs for sure the small ones. We have poured are hard earned money to UKC for papers and club fees and so on so on for years. It's time we need help or coonhunting is going to fade away.

And #1 is the youth.
I know when I was a kid I had some of my best memories with my grandpa and dad hunting. It helped me threw the tuff times growing up and taught me to take ownership in what I had.

The problem now days is everything revolves around money. Nobody takes pride in hard work. And nobody has respect for anybody. A man word is not worth anything any more. It's just the way the world works nowadays.

Coonhunting either evolves or vanishes that's it.

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Melblank
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Let me state first that I am not a competition hunter. Tried it, not my cup of tea. My goal is the same since I first started. Have a good time. I love hunting withhounds and good friends. I will hunt behind any color dog and I am not real particular of it’s style as long as it has a coon at the end. Empty trees are not fun.

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Preacher Tom
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Registered: Feb 2015
Location: NW Arkansas
Posts: 1108

Don't guess I qualify as a modern day coonhunter because I've been at this for 60 years but my goal has never changed. I am not a breeder so that has not been my goal. My goal is a dog that hunts good but handles, opens only when he smells a coon, has good ability to move a track the right way with a good mouth, has good locating ability and once committed to a tree will stay there. Notice I didn't say great in any of these areas just good, because great in all of them would be a dog I am not likely to ever find. If you have a dog like I described call me I will try to buy him.

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Hittman
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Registered: Jan 2013
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I will always be a pleasure hunter over competition.

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Reuben
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Registered: Nov 2011
Location: Freeport,TX
Posts: 1903

The goal should be in fine tuning the competition rules so that the best coon dog wins a higher percentage of times...the rules should take into consideration the promotion of good all around nose...and not promoting a hot nosed dog that runs hard looking for a smoking hot track because that’s the only type of track he can run...

It should be about the best all around dog and not the best all around lawyer handler...lol

When this happens then there will be better coon dogs...

For me a good hunting dog looks good in any company and in any terrain...and when casted in an area and he comes back I might as well load up and move on because I know and have the confidence in that dog that there is no game of choice in the area...

I also like it best when a set of dogs are cast and they don’t strike and are loaded up to move elsewhere...and then I cast mine and in 5 or ten minutes they are running one...

I reckon we all like them like that...😳😊

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DL NH
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Registered: Jan 2016
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I would guess the goal of most modern day coon hunters is to own a hound that will consistently be found barking treed underneath a real live coon. Most probably desire a hound that will outshine whatever they hunt it with often, wether in competition hunts or pleasure hunting.

Not sure how much many even care that much about how the hound gets it done, what it sounds like, looks like, how it handles, if it runs trash, if comes when called, if it ever checks in...........and more, so long as at the end of the day they're sitting under a coon.

I'm probably just an old geezer that places value on many aspects of what makes an enjoyable hound to hunt. You certainly don't have much of a dog if it can't show you game at least 75-80% of the time provided their being cast where there is game to be found! That said if your only joy in owning a coon hound is seeing it under a coon treed, why waste the time of owning one! Go with someone else and be free of what it takes to own a true honest to goodness coon dog. There is so much more to enjoy about the sport and owning hounds than just seeing one sit under a coon barking treed!

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Old Post 07-02-2019 03:55 AM
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Tim Green
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Dec 2003
Location: Burkburnett, TX
Posts: 503

Thanks everyone that has commented so far. I really appreciate the perspectives. I enjoy the breeding part a lot and do my best to study different pedigrees looking for the right combination. If I had one over arching goal it would be to produce a dog that would be to the likings of the hard to suit hunter. I could only hope that it would be successful at the highest levels of competition. I do enjoy pleasure hunting more now, but do still attend a few smaller hunts, mainly to hunt with different people. Like someone mentioned, I would like one of my hounds to make the magazine one day.

Thanks again everyone.

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Old Post 07-02-2019 04:39 AM
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high ridge
UKC Forum Member

Registered: May 2008
Location: Kentucky
Posts: 3145

My only goal is to go coon hunting and enjoy a dog that doesn’t pay attention to stupid stuff going on around and enjoy myself.

I just love coonhunting. Probably more than a person should.

I think when you have a goal other than just going and enjoying a good hound you open up to many cans of worms,
Dog knocking, jealously among breeds, jealousy among KC’s, get feelings hurt by a buddy, etc.

Just go hunting and enjoy yourself. The rest will line up if it’s meant to be.

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Old Post 07-03-2019 02:59 AM
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100%hunter
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Aug 2014
Location:
Posts: 162

preacher tom/other,s

I want to start by saying thanks i really enjoy reading your thoughts on what a coon dog is. i have coon hunting for thirty years and have always wanted a hound that can work any kind of track and be very accurate. three yrs ago i bought a puppy from a man that has stayed true to that kind of hound for over fifty yrs and i have thanked him many times. I now have a young dog that has earned the trust/respect of me and others that have hunted with him. I want to thank all breeders that have done this.

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Old Post 07-03-2019 01:14 PM
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Vic Stoll
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Sep 2005
Location: Southwest Ohio
Posts: 1773

quote:
Originally posted by high ridge
My only goal is to go coon hunting and enjoy a dog that doesn’t pay attention to stupid stuff going on around and enjoy myself.

I just love coonhunting. Probably more than a person should.

I think when you have a goal other than just going and enjoying a good hound you open up to many cans of worms,
Dog knocking, jealously among breeds, jealousy among KC’s, get feelings hurt by a buddy, etc.

Just go hunting and enjoy yourself. The rest will line up if it’s meant to be.



VERY VERY WELL SAID!

Enjoying what you’re doing cannot be measured by any means, it’s priceless.

Everything isn’t peaches and cream all the time. As someone much wiser than myself used to say ... a man has to take a little water with his gravy now and again

Pretty darn neat to be able to share thoughts with folks all across this Country on a forum such as this.

I enjoy reading many of the threads and responses!

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Home of:
A couple blue haired potlickers

Gone but not forgotten:
Nt Ch Fanny's Midnite Blue Annie - aka Sodie Pop R.I.P. - I will miss you old girl

Nt Ch Becky’s Midnite Blue Hank - R.I.P. Old Boy, thank you for the memories

Gr Nt Ch S&E's Midnite Lite Blue Snow (Co-Owned with my good friend Harry Eidenier) - We had a blast following you ole girl!

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Old Post 07-04-2019 02:50 PM
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