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Tim Gump
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Mar 2006
Location: Brave Pa.
Posts: 223

Blues

I've always been a Walker man but about 8 years ago one of my buddy's said he wanted to try something new. So I said id try a bluetick and I go all out spent a pile of money. But the biggest thing I couldn't stand was the fact . You Blueticker's are a different bunch of people. Id ask about this or that and all id get is bad mouthing or bashing. so it didn't take long for me to go back to the Walkers. Just my 2 cents Thanks

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shadinc
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jun 2014
Location: Louisiana
Posts: 3369

quote:
Originally posted by pamjohnson
Gerald don't take this the wrong way. I want to pick your brain a little on the lay up dog your talking about. I figure you have way more wisdom and experience than me on this subject.
Here is my view of the lay up dog your talking about. It sounds good but most are just takin a guess which tree so poor accuracy goes hand n hand with this type dog. Not very appealing. Great ones would be very few and far between. Breeding for it seems like a nightmare. Then they still probably need to be a really good track dog or stay away from tracks all together.
Am I close or in left field?

Pam, you obviously never hunted with a true layup dog. If you did you wouldn't think they are guessing.

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Tim Gump
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Mar 2006
Location: Brave Pa.
Posts: 223

Blues

I've always been a Walker man but about 8 years ago one of my buddy's said he wanted to try something new. So I said id try a bluetick and I go all out spent a pile of money. But the biggest thing I couldn't stand was the fact . You Blueticker's are a different bunch of people. Id ask about this or that and all id get is bad mouthing or bashing. so it didn't take long for me to go back to the Walkers. Just my 2 cents Thanks

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Old Post 09-27-2018 04:21 AM
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ov_blues
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Feb 2007
Location: Pomeroy, Ohio
Posts: 2834

Re: Blues

quote:
Originally posted by Tim Gump
I've always been a Walker man but about 8 years ago one of my buddy's said he wanted to try something new. So I said id try a bluetick and I go all out spent a pile of money. But the biggest thing I couldn't stand was the fact . You Blueticker's are a different bunch of people. Id ask about this or that and all id get is bad mouthing or bashing. so it didn't take long for me to go back to the Walkers. Just my 2 cents Thanks


I’m not trying to bash at all. I’ve tried to think outside the box and not be kennel blind at all. I’m just stating some things that I’ve seen and experienced over several years of hunting, breeding, and being around blueticks. There are a lot of good blueticks in this world, and I believe the traits are there to produce a world class dog. But I honestly believe that what I stated is what is holding the breed back as a whole.

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Drummerblue2
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jun 2016
Location: Grassy
Posts: 233

I've always been a blue dog man

A cuple years ago my son decided he wanted to pkc hunt and he wanted to change breeds because he thought he could get in the winners circle more. As a good dad I thought I might get me a walker and hunt it up and get it ready for hunts for my son I learned a cuple things about them one thing is both these dogs was wound up all the time like they was on a drug all the time. Needless to say my walker dog fever got cured I got rid of that train reck my son still has his here behind house he has been doing alot of winning here latly heading to super steaks tomorrow I hope he gets in. There is alot if difference in the breed of walkers my son hunts and the breed of blue dog's I have here. No comparison. I'll say this and shut up I don't have what it takes to hunt a hound like my son likes . Good night.

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Darren Hollis
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jul 2005
Location: Winfield, ALABAMA
Posts: 2937

WORLD HUNT

"I’m not trying to bash at all. I’ve tried to think outside the box and not be kennel blind at all. I’m just stating some things that I’ve seen and experienced over several years of hunting, breeding, and being around blueticks. There are a lot of good blueticks in this world, and I believe the traits are there to produce a world class dog. But I honestly believe that what I stated is what is holding the breed back as a whole." originally posted by OV BLUES


I agree with you. I hear this from many bluetick breeders including some that will bash their own family's bluetick hounds. If it is a good one, I don't care what line it is from. I also hear people form an opinion on a bloodline after they hunt with one dog from that line. I think there are a few bluetick breeders out there that are not kennel blind and will produce the one to eventually win it all.
Darren

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pamjohnson
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Feb 2012
Location: airville,pa
Posts: 2072

quote:
Originally posted by shadinc
Pam, you obviously never hunted with a true layup dog. If you did you wouldn't think they are guessing.


I have. I wasn't impressed most nights. Ambush dogs or hot nosed dogs have impressed me more.

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ov_blues
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Feb 2007
Location: Pomeroy, Ohio
Posts: 2834

quote:
Originally posted by pamjohnson
I have. I wasn't impressed most nights. Ambush dogs or hot nosed dogs have impressed me more.


I’d have to agree with shadinc, you must have not hunted with a Good one. When a good one trees coon other dogs don’t know are around I don’t know how a houndsman can’t be impressed. When you see a dog come into a tree with their head up like a radar and slam a tree with a coon laying up in it asleep and dead to the world I personally love that trait and ability in a hound.

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Ohio Valley Bluetick Kennel

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shadinc
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jun 2014
Location: Louisiana
Posts: 3369

quote:
Originally posted by pamjohnson
I have. I wasn't impressed most nights. Ambush dogs or hot nosed dogs have impressed me more.
When your hot nosed dog is one mile from the truck looking for a track he can smell and your layup dogs trees a coon that hasn't come down yet, and has it, 100 yds from the truck, you've got to be impressed.

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southernthunder
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Aug 2012
Location: Oklahoma
Posts: 4834

quote:
Originally posted by shadinc
When your hot nosed dog is one mile from the truck looking for a track he can smell and your layup dogs trees a coon that hasn't come down yet, and has it, 100 yds from the truck, you've got to be impressed.


absolutely!

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pamjohnson
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Feb 2012
Location: airville,pa
Posts: 2072

quote:
Originally posted by shadinc
When your hot nosed dog is one mile from the truck looking for a track he can smell and your layup dogs trees a coon that hasn't come down yet, and has it, 100 yds from the truck, you've got to be impressed.
personal I don't have a hot nosed dog.
But them hot nosed dogs are winners. If someone has a blue dog that never takes a track that last more than 5 minutes and is an open track dog with great accuracy and Will hunt faster than 8 mph I'm very interested $$$$$$

By the way a great lay up dog is a very hot nosed dog.

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southernthunder
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Aug 2012
Location: Oklahoma
Posts: 4834

Its always a good sign to see coons setting up in an area your going to cut loose at. that gets everybody in the cast excited usually. its even better when those dogs run right by those layed up coon and your dog slams the tree shutting them out. in lots of cases the other dogs will come in to see what is going on and get some minus to go along with your dog getting to score that coon. I'm not ever going to be without a scent winding hound again. once you have this trait and watch it come to full fruition you won't do without it either. most usually this type of hound is very independent and very fast from what I've seen. it stands to reason that if a hound can run a scent with their head up winding the track and tree that they will be faster on the ground and to get treed. to each their own. I've been handling this type of hound for several years now and have been blessed with success in the hunts consistently. I don't care what type of hunt it is you will see all the same dogs at the larger hunts rather its ukc, pkc, chkc, ect. in some areas one kc is more popular than another but it doesn't have one thing to do with rather a dog is consistent about what it does. when folks quit making excuses and let go of their pride the dog breeding starts to change dramatically. I was one of those that loved what I had until I was blessed to find something better. I'm thankful that I made the change. best of luck to everyone hunting a blue dog. my post wasn't intended to be smart or sound like I know more than anyone else. I just posted my personal experience.

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Southern Thunder Bluetick Kennels

At Stud: GRNITECH PR HAMLIN'S BLUE WHIP
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2015 BBOA ZONE 7 CHAMPION / DOUBLE CAST WINNER / HIGH SCORE / KING OF HUNT
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2015 UNITED ENGLISH ARKANSAS STATE CHAMPIONSHIP CHAMPION / HIGH SCORE OVERALL CHAMPION
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2015 ELBERT VAUGHN MEMORIAL CHAMPION
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2015 BOOMER SOONER CLASSIC CHAMPION
2015 WESTERN ENGLISH SPRING CLASSIS CAST WINNER
2015 OKLAHOMA STATE YOUTH CHAMPIONSHIP CAST WINNER
2015 BLUETICK CHALLENGE CHAMPION
2015 BBOA OKLAHOMA STATE CHAMPION / DOUBLE CAST WINNER / HIGH SCORE / KING OF HUNT
2015 UKC WORLD HUNT CAST WINNER
2016 PURINA NATIONALS CAST WINNER / BREED CHAMPION / HIGH SCORING BLUETICK
5 Time World Qualifier and 3 Peat Zone Champion
Too many wins to list them all
2020 Performance Sire at Stud
GRCH GRNITECH PR HAMLIN'S DAVIE CROCKET HTX

Thanks to everyone who has breed to Crocket or is hunting one of his offspring

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southernthunder
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Aug 2012
Location: Oklahoma
Posts: 4834

quote:
Originally posted by pamjohnson
personal I don't have a hot nosed dog.
But them hot nosed dogs are winners. If someone has a blue dog that never takes a track that last more than 5 minutes and is an open track dog with great accuracy and Will hunt faster than 8 mph I'm very interested $$$$$$

By the way a great lay up dog is a very hot nosed dog.



how many great lay up dogs have you hunted with that are hot nosed? what are the dog's names and owners. I would like to hunt with one.

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Eddie Harp
918-448-7321
Laelaps Pro Staff
Southern Thunder Bluetick Kennels

At Stud: GRNITECH PR HAMLIN'S BLUE WHIP
PERFORMANCE SIRE $300 STUD FEE

HOME OF: GRNITECH GRCH PR HAMLIN'S DAVIE CROCKET HTX
2015 TRIPLE CROWN CHAMPION
2015 PURINA RACE BREED CHAMPION
2015 AUTUMN OAKS NATIONAL GRNITECH BLUETICK
2015 AUTUMN OAKS GRAND 16
2015 AUTUMN OAKS BBOA / BBCHA HIGH SCORING BLUETICK
2015 WINTER CLASSIC DOUBLE CAST WINNER PURINA POINTS EVENT
2015 WINTER CLASSIC BBOA HIGH SCORING BLUETICK
2015 ARKANSAS STATE PURINA CONTENDER CAST WINNER / HIGH SCORE
2015 MISSOURI STATE PURINA CONTENDER CAST WINNER / HIGH SCORE
2015 OKLAHOMA STATE PURINA CONTENDER CAST WINNER
2015 KENTUCKY STATE PURINA CONTENDER CAST WINNER
2015 INDIANA STATE PURINA CONTEDER CAST WINNER
2015 BBOA ZONE 7 CHAMPION / DOUBLE CAST WINNER / HIGH SCORE / KING OF HUNT
2015 BBOA TEXAS STATE CHAMPION / HIGH SCORE / KING OF HUNT
2015 BBOA / WESTERN ENGLISH SHOOTOUT DOUBLE CAST WINNER / HIGH SCORE / KING OF HUNT
2015 UNITED ENGLISH ARKANSAS STATE CHAMPIONSHIP CHAMPION / HIGH SCORE OVERALL CHAMPION
2015 BBOA YOUTH NATIONALS CAST WINNER 2ND OVERALL HIGH SCORE
2015 BBOA ZONE 7 HOUND OF THE YEAR
2015 BBOA/BBCHA GRAND REUNION RQE 1ST PLACE IOWA
2015 BBOA NATIONAL BLUETICK DAYS INVITATIONAL CAST WINNER / 1ST RUNNER UP
2015 ELBERT VAUGHN MEMORIAL CHAMPION
2015 BILL JACKSON MEMORIAL CHAMPION
2015 BOOMER SOONER CLASSIC CHAMPION
2015 WESTERN ENGLISH SPRING CLASSIS CAST WINNER
2015 OKLAHOMA STATE YOUTH CHAMPIONSHIP CAST WINNER
2015 BLUETICK CHALLENGE CHAMPION
2015 BBOA OKLAHOMA STATE CHAMPION / DOUBLE CAST WINNER / HIGH SCORE / KING OF HUNT
2015 UKC WORLD HUNT CAST WINNER
2016 PURINA NATIONALS CAST WINNER / BREED CHAMPION / HIGH SCORING BLUETICK
5 Time World Qualifier and 3 Peat Zone Champion
Too many wins to list them all
2020 Performance Sire at Stud
GRCH GRNITECH PR HAMLIN'S DAVIE CROCKET HTX

Thanks to everyone who has breed to Crocket or is hunting one of his offspring

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Ron Moore
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jan 2006
Location: WV
Posts: 821

I'm a little confused here. How did we go from traits to win the world to lay up dogs? If there are so many good lay up dogs in the bluetick breed, how come one of them can't get to the top? I've been hunting for a few years and have seen my shear of blue dogs in every fashion. Some which have made it high into the World hunt. Most of them were just good solid coon dogs through and through with good handlers. We're getting right back to arguing again about what we need and who has it. I for one know I don't have what I need to get to the top but you can bet I'm still trying to breed a better one. As far as lay up, it's always been a gray area for me so someone needs to enlighten me. I've had dogs that would just fall treed with the coon but the same dog would open very well on trail. Now, explain to me how a dog opens on scent on trail to get to the tree but don't open on floating scent that is traveling through the air to get to a tree with no scent on the tree at all? One other thing? With most all dogs being extremely independent, most to the extent that they won't even check another dog, how could you tell if that dog can't smell another dogs tree or it just doesn't want to bark on another dogs tree?? There are a lot of things that I still am trying to figure out, even after 50 years and I'm not ashamed to admit when I'm wrong. Not here to argue a point just pointing a few things out to kick around. Remember, don't hold a dog responsible for its owners actions. A good dog is a good dog no matter who owns it.

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Vic Stoll
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Sep 2005
Location: Southwest Ohio
Posts: 1774

quote:
Originally posted by Ron Moore
I'm a little confused here. How did we go from traits to win the world to lay up dogs? If there are so many good lay up dogs in the bluetick breed, how come one of them can't get to the top?


Ron, the same way we can tailor make a Blue dog to win elimination style hunts without ever entering that dog in an elimination style hunt

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BigContry
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jun 2014
Location: Louisiana
Posts: 958

quote:
Originally posted by Ron Moore
I'm a little confused here. How did we go from traits to win the world to lay up dogs? If there are so many good lay up dogs in the bluetick breed, how come one of them can't get to the top? I've been hunting for a few years and have seen my shear of blue dogs in every fashion. Some which have made it high into the World hunt. Most of them were just good solid coon dogs through and through with good handlers. We're getting right back to arguing again about what we need and who has it. I for one know I don't have what I need to get to the top but you can bet I'm still trying to breed a better one. As far as lay up, it's always been a gray area for me so someone needs to enlighten me. I've had dogs that would just fall treed with the coon but the same dog would open very well on trail. Now, explain to me how a dog opens on scent on trail to get to the tree but don't open on floating scent that is traveling through the air to get to a tree with no scent on the tree at all? One other thing? With most all dogs being extremely independent, most to the extent that they won't even check another dog, how could you tell if that dog can't smell another dogs tree or it just doesn't want to bark on another dogs tree?? There are a lot of things that I still am trying to figure out, even after 50 years and I'm not ashamed to admit when I'm wrong. Not here to argue a point just pointing a few things out to kick around. Remember, don't hold a dog responsible for its owners actions. A good dog is a good dog no matter who owns it.
Are their many lay up dogs out there? Shadinc’s young female is a lay up dog. She is 2 years old and will make you ask, what just happened? She is still learning, but is very very accurate. He calls her “An Old Man’s Dog”, because when everything else blows out of there, she trees one on the side of the road. Her daddy has done this from time to time, but I don't ever remember her mother doing this. So where did it come from? Where can we find a Stub that is passing on this trait.

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shadinc
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jun 2014
Location: Louisiana
Posts: 3369

Tommy, you might add, her sire comes from Gerald and her dam is out of Utchman's Thorn.

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ov_blues
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Feb 2007
Location: Pomeroy, Ohio
Posts: 2834

It’s not just layup ability, it is locating ability and a natural instinct to know where to look for a Coon.

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Ohio Valley Bluetick Kennel

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Old Post 09-27-2018 09:53 PM
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everett
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jan 2010
Location: Ar.
Posts: 2471

Ron

quote:
Originally posted by Ron Moore
I'm a little confused here. How did we go from traits to win the world to lay up dogs? If there are so many good lay up dogs in the bluetick breed, how come one of them can't get to the top? I've been hunting for a few years and have seen my shear of blue dogs in every fashion. Some which have made it high into the World hunt. Most of them were just good solid coon dogs through and through with good handlers. We're getting right back to arguing again about what we need and who has it. I for one know I don't have what I need to get to the top but you can bet I'm still trying to breed a better one. As far as lay up, it's always been a gray area for me so someone needs to enlighten me. I've had dogs that would just fall treed with the coon but the same dog would open very well on trail. Now, explain to me how a dog opens on scent on trail to get to the tree but don't open on floating scent that is traveling through the air to get to a tree with no scent on the tree at all? One other thing? With most all dogs being extremely independent, most to the extent that they won't even check another dog, how could you tell if that dog can't smell another dogs tree or it just doesn't want to bark on another dogs tree?? There are a lot of things that I still am trying to figure out, even after 50 years and I'm not ashamed to admit when I'm wrong. Not here to argue a point just pointing a few things out to kick around. Remember, don't hold a dog responsible for its owners actions. A good dog is a good dog no matter who owns it.
layup ability is one of the traits that its going to take to get to the top, but not just that one trait alone, as I mentioned earlier in this posts, track drifting ability no matter the track conditions, and one locate tree dog, The bluetick breed has all these traits but not in one hound as a package, that is being bred to other blue hounds with the same package, also keep I'm mind it will take these breeding practices as rule over a period of time to become the expectation when you cut a blue dog lose, that is when we will show up in the top dog spot with some level of consistency....... Gerald

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Gerald Everett/ Mad Dog South Central
[870] 820-4065
B.O.S.S. Vice President
Blueticks of the Southern States

TEAM MAD DOG "Hunt Hard Hunt Offten"
IN REMEMBRANCE OF MAD DOG TIM VAUGHN

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GRNITECH pr' Mad Dog coon Poppin
Wacko (Shellly) 2014 BBOA Arkansas State Hunt Queen of Hunt High scoring Grntch.
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Old Post 09-27-2018 10:00 PM
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pamjohnson
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Feb 2012
Location: airville,pa
Posts: 2072

Eddie I notice you called your dog a winding dog not a lay up dog.
To answer your question None, zero. I already said I never saw a layup dog impress me. Maybe for a tree or 2 but than the inaccuracies come out and bam!
Winding, locating, 1 bark tree dogs are awesome. Traits are very important in breeding.
What is the most important trait to breed for in any hunting dog hunting for any game?

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Old Post 09-27-2018 11:43 PM
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southernthunder
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Aug 2012
Location: Oklahoma
Posts: 4834

Winding, locating, 1 bark tree dogs are awesome. Traits are very important in breeding.
What is the most important trait to breed for in any hunting dog hunting for any game? [/B][/QUOTE]

Brains! If they dont have the goods between their ears nothing else matters lol

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Old Post 09-28-2018 12:50 AM
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pamjohnson
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Feb 2012
Location: airville,pa
Posts: 2072

Desire to hunt
Without it brains won't matter. Even a dumb hunting dog is better than a smart dog that doesn't hunt.

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Old Post 09-28-2018 01:06 AM
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Wayne Valentino
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Oakdale, Pennsylvania
Posts: 3753

I

recently had a conversation with a dear friend of mine who is a very successful Walker dog man. Winning BIG hunts and lots of cash in various KC's. What he breeds and trains for today is not what he bred for 30 years ago. Today he breeds to please the scorecard. 30 years ago he bred to please the coonhunter in the winter with emphasis on increasing track speed while maintaining strong treeing instincts. I would not want one of his dogs today. Bluetick guys are more coonhunters than competition hunters and don't breed to please scorecards. Some are trying to do it, they are few in my book. IMHO, I don't want dead loners that are socially dysfunctional, a bit grouchy at trees, that horse race 500 yards into the timber trying to create separation from their cast mates before they even start looking for a coon. That is not coonhunting. Blues that hunt from the second they are turned loose, have the proper amount of independence, increased speed and have nose power to tree February coon, not just July kittens is what I see Blue Guys want, and if competition wins fall into the mix then fantastic. To win big you gotta breed to please the scorecard, to those who want that go for all the gusto and achieve your goals !! I wish you well and much success. [/B][/QUOTE]

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Old Post 09-28-2018 01:56 AM
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Drummerblue2
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jun 2016
Location: Grassy
Posts: 233

I would

Like to see more Hustle come out of my yard .And I would like to see my hounds ether get faster at getting treed on a colder track r leave them alone. The walker dog's in my part of the country are some hard going get opened fast and getting treed fast all alone the 2016 pkc world champion is just down the road from me I've never seen a blue dog that covered the group as fast as she does in thick are thin coon she will put on a clinic. I'm hoping I can come up with a blue dog that has a big tank of gas and has no quit in it some day

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Old Post 09-28-2018 02:06 AM
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everett
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jan 2010
Location: Ar.
Posts: 2471

Re: I would

quote:
Originally posted by Drummerblue2
Like to see more Hustle come out of my yard .And I would like to see my hounds ether get faster at getting treed on a colder track r leave them alone. The walker dog's in my part of the country are some hard going get opened fast and getting treed fast all alone the 2016 pkc world champion is just down the road from me I've never seen a blue dog that covered the group as fast as she does in thick are thin coon she will put on a clinic. I'm hoping I can come up with a blue dog that has a big tank of gas and has no quit in it some day

X2

__________________
Gerald Everett/ Mad Dog South Central
[870] 820-4065
B.O.S.S. Vice President
Blueticks of the Southern States

TEAM MAD DOG "Hunt Hard Hunt Offten"
IN REMEMBRANCE OF MAD DOG TIM VAUGHN

GRNITECH pr' MAD DOG ANTi UP JOKER co winner of the all blue world championship, Sire of 2014 UKC world hunt high scoring Bluetick male(Grnitech pr' Walz Coontree Joker)

GRNITECH pr' Mad Dog coon Poppin
Wacko (Shellly) 2014 BBOA Arkansas State Hunt Queen of Hunt High scoring Grntch.
2015 zone 7 championship Queen of hunt

Grnitech Grch pr' Mad Dog Hey Jude 2008 National Bluetick Days Queen of hunt, 2013 ACHA Little world hunt 5th place overall.

pr' Mad Dog Two Gun Rhino (Astro x Jude)

Pr' Mad Dog Two Gun Doll Baby ( Astro x Shelly)
Critter Light co. Owner/Dealer

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Old Post 09-28-2018 12:35 PM
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