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DwayneWhite
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Feb 2015
Location: West Point, MS
Posts: 220

quote:
Originally posted by Richard Lambert
If you take a pregnant female to a comp hunt and she wins will that make the pups winners?


I wish it was that easy B)

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Old Post 06-14-2017 10:27 PM
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Richard Lambert
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Aug 2004
Location: Chattanooga, Tn
Posts: 22460

That is what I do and it seems to be working. I saw something on TV about "the smell of victory".

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Old Post 06-15-2017 02:37 PM
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Bruce m. Conkey
UKC Forum Member

Registered: May 2016
Location: Palatka, FL
Posts: 5103

.

Is there really a secret to breeding good dogs. Other than breeding good ones together? If you feel someone has the secret sauce then go buy some of theirs and breed them. Once you try to train a few you will think most people are smelling the sauce a little to much. If your successful in training them and they suit you. Stick with them.

Who in any breed buys a pup and cannot brag on their papers and list several of the breeds top hounds that are in the pups pedigree.

MEN and Women sit and plan out the details of a house. They plan their vacations. They plan how their landscaping will look. They also sit and look at papers and plan out a cross. Or they look at papers and think of the winning hounds in the background and one of them pups should work for them. Once the papers indicate they have dogs they think they want in their pups background. The planning is over but you had better go check out what that pedigree was built on.
Don't look at titles because you don't get titles. You get genetics. Those genetics coupled with a lot of training produce Titles.

Again, in todays world a lot pups are born with the genetics to make a nice hound. In todays world, most people are to busy to train a nice hound. You want soup, you open a can and microwave it. You want pudding you open to lid of one of them plastic things and eat it. You want Ice Tea you pop the lid on a bottle. You want a coonhound there is a lot more effort to get results than our lifestyles have geared us up for.

It may appear that hunting a pregnant female, stamps the pups with quality. Why because if your hunting a pregnant female she is probably a nice hound and that is what stamps the pups. The exercise is also good for her and the pups to a point. I hunted one in a comp hunts two years ago, two weeks before the pups were born. Why because I felt she could win the hunt. She made three trees that night and done a very good job. The ability in her pups were not because of that hunt. It came from here ability.

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Old Post 06-15-2017 03:15 PM
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Richard Lambert
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Aug 2004
Location: Chattanooga, Tn
Posts: 22460

Oh my goodness Mr Conkey, what a dreamkiller you are. I was just sitting here looking at my papers and imagining what it was going to be like to win the World Championship. Now you are telling me that I am going to have to actually get off my couch and train this pup? Maybe I can pay a handler to do it for me.

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Old Post 06-15-2017 04:15 PM
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chainsaw
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Feb 2016
Location:
Posts: 99

Secret

I've got the secret yall ready.....PUPS ARE A GAMBLE....it doesn't matter if you pay big $$$$$ or a free pup every pup out there is a gamble plan and simple all you can do is your part as a trainer the rest is up to the dog...

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Old Post 06-15-2017 05:41 PM
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Reuben
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Nov 2011
Location: Freeport,TX
Posts: 1903

This thread should of been named "Thinking Outside the Box"...
I recorded a Nova Show (documentary) about lead in water “POISONED WATER”, it was about water issues in the city of Flint, Michigan…
They were discussing how lead poisoning affected children to include babies in the womb…the scientists say that lead goes where calcium goes in our bodies and they also said an unborn child will be born with the lead in their system because it was transported from mom to fetus…lead will replace some of the calcium where calcium is supposed to be concentrated and one of these places is between neurons which are involved with the communications system of the nervous system and this includes the brain…the lead disrupts this function especially in young children with developing brains…Calcium is also vital in brain cell health and is needed in maintaining healthy cells and for cells to produce more cells for growth…
The average IQ in children of Flint, Michigan was tested to be 86 and the average should be 100…
As already mentioned the science research indicates that the pregnant moms fetus when needing calcium for fetus development will furnish the fetus with the needed calcium and since the lead tends to congregate where the calcium is located, then the fetus can get lead poisoning through this process as well…the brain that has been exposed to high levels of lead in a child will have a smaller brain than that of a child who has not been exposed to high levels of lead…there are many different studies about the mother and her unborn child about other conditions good and bad, and if we are to learn more about these things…then it is possible to breed better dogs and raise children with a head start in life…

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Training dogs is not so much about quantity, it's more about timing, and the right situations...After that it's up to the dog....A hunting dog is born...

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Old Post 06-23-2017 11:43 AM
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Reuben
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Nov 2011
Location: Freeport,TX
Posts: 1903

This is a long youtube presentation but a good one...first I heard it and verifies some of my beliefs and theories...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kqG5TagD0uU

__________________
Training dogs is not so much about quantity, it's more about timing, and the right situations...After that it's up to the dog....A hunting dog is born...

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Old Post 06-24-2017 07:10 PM
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swamp1
Banned

Registered: Aug 2012
Location:
Posts: 930

Foundation

Mr Bruce, you're right. Gotta have a good foundation to build a house that withstand the storm. A house won't build itself either.same goes for powerhouse hounds.seen some scientific coonhound breeders,good guys, don't workout real high % of time,from what I seen,in fact 0%. Coonhounds are born, have to be put at right place at right time and situation, and most likely the rest will take care of itself. In the meantime,I'm gonna check into getting me one of them scientific big winner robot dogs,Lol

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Old Post 06-25-2017 05:54 PM
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Bruce m. Conkey
UKC Forum Member

Registered: May 2016
Location: Palatka, FL
Posts: 5103

.

I find this interesting.


https://youtu.be/ZEOjlsUd7j8

__________________
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"Boss Lights"

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Old Post 06-25-2017 08:37 PM
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Reuben
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Nov 2011
Location: Freeport,TX
Posts: 1903

The article below I copied from another forum and I thought you folks might enjoy it as I did...

The YouTube post that Bruce posted about the taming of the foxes somewhat applies to the article...




The Hunter’s Horn
February, 1956
Page Twenty-eight & Twenty-nine

The July Hound of Yesterday—‘Quick to Jump, Runs to Catch’ –Sets the Pattern for Today
By Jack Davis, Temple, Ga.

Mr. July man, what do you want? Do you want a July hound patterned in performance and appearance after
some other strain or do you want a hound with the characteristics of the old original Julys? Are you going
to try to breed something to hush the criticism within the ranks of some other strains that do not have and
are not supposed to have the July’s characteristics? Or do you want to breed a July hound that is a true
July hound, “quick to jump, runs to catch”?

It seems to me there is not enough uniformity within the strain today. Perhaps some breeders are breeding
for oppositely different characteristics. Perhaps some are trying to breed a hound that will conform to the
standard of performance set up by the breeders of other strains. As a student of the July strain, I have
found a variation in type and performance of July hounds in different communities.

The July hound that attracted almost world-wide attention and gave birth to a burning desire with a
multitude of people to own them, was a strain with certain fixed characteristics. Breeders would do well to
recognize just what those characteristics were and set them up as their objective in their breeding
program.

Old July, when a growing pup, was scorned and laughed to shame. This was because his appearance was
so foreign to the ideal existing in the minds of men as to how a fox hound should look. In that day men of
the South had as their ideal of appearance and performance a smooth-coated hound, with extremely long
pendulous ears, that followed the track closely giving long, drawn-out, bawling musical notes. Old July was
just the opposite. One thing is certain; it was not their appearance or long, drawn-out, musical tonguing
that won the Julys their fame.
There came a day when old July had almost grown up and he jumped and ran a fox to death in the presence
of a number of men. From that moment on his stock soared high. Now, what was the factor that brought
about this sudden popularity? His performance, of course. There is simply no room for argument
whatever. His style of performance was one of being quick to jump and running with a determination to
catch his fox.

Let us analyze the slogan, “Quick to jump, runs to catch.” What enables the July, or any hound for that
matter, to quickly jump a fox even when the strike is cold? If the hound moves with a leisurely gait,
covering every crook and turn that a fox out hunting its dinner makes, that hound will never jump the fox
unless the fox stops, and beds down to rest. Even then it will take a long time for the trailing hound to
come up to him.

The hound that does not make every crook and turn, cuts a few corners and does some drifting, but does a
lot of tonguing meanwhile, will be a long time getting up to its fox. A fox hearing a great clamor from a
trailing pack will move faster and away, keeping its distance as long as possible.

A hound that does a lot of drifting, not following every crook and turn but coursing the general direction of
the line of scent, not wildly but efficiently and fast in a semi-silent manner, will surprise it’s quarry, as the
quarry, undisturbed and unaware of danger, leisurely feeds along its habitual range, and quickly jump it and
put it to running. This is the characteristic that won the July hound the right to be called the strain that is
quick to jump.

How did the July get its reputation of running to catch? Simply because the July hound ran with that
thought gripping and governing its whole being. A hound that runs to catch does not move forward and
give tongue just because it has scent of a fox in its nostrils, but because that scent denotes there is a fox
out ahead that it wants to catch. This type hound does not move ahead when it scents a fox in mechanical
manner just as if that was its whole duty and it was interested in performing its duty only. Any sense of
mechanical duty is thrown to the winds and the hound plunges excitedly ahead, its whole being stirred by
the excitement of the chase and the determination to catch that fox, the scent being only the means of
obtaining the end. It decidedly is not the end.
So, if the hound loses the scent it has not lost its chief object of interest. The scent being only secondary,
it casts ahead knowing full well that the fox almost always moves in a forward direction and the fox is its
primary object of interest, contacting the scent line again, confirming its belief that the fox went in that
direction.

With a slower track-running type of hound interested in the line of scent primarily and the fox secondarily, it
is different. When it makes a runover its chief concern is to find the line of scent again. It makes little
difference to this type of hound whether the line of scent is found closer to the fox or farther away. This
hound checks its pace and makes a tight or close circle searching mechanically for the scent and not for
the fox. A pack of hounds of this type will give one a lot of hound music and precise, mechanical action, but
not as much excitement as a pack that runs with ingenuity and intelligence—to be more exact, as the July
hound of the late nineties ran.

July performance should be the July breeder’s watchword. It seems to me that we as breeders of a strain
should agree on what that performance should be and breed for it, letting the chips fall where they may. In
choosing breeding stock we should choose individuals within the strain who perform according to the
accepted July standard. And these individuals should be from families that perform likewise.

We should refrain from becoming “pedigree happy” and using as breeding stock individuals who are poor
performers from families who are poor performers, although these families have a traditionally good
pedigree. Even if their forefathers were good hounds six or seven generations back, our chance of
getting good hounds from such a mating is one of getting a throwback only.
Any family line can “run out.” We see the proof of this in some human families.

Neither should we use good outstanding individuals whose background is unimpressive, especially in the
close up generations, nor individuals with a radical cross close up on another strain, for it is the July
characteristics we want to intensify and preserve. Just about all outcrosses on strains that perform in a
different manner to the July, made in the past, have been made by men who wanted to introduce other
strain characteristics into the July strain, and not to intensify and preserve the July characteristics. Such
people should get some hounds of another strain if they do not like the July. Let us not try to conform the
July strain to the pattern of some other strain.

The strain in its true and original state had individuality. The tenets of that individuality were such that the
breeders adopted a slogan that should be descriptive of every hound within the strain –“Quick to jump,
runs to catch.”

Evidently the July hounds of the late nineties packed close and well and would hark to one another quickly,
but they also displayed more individuality and ingenuity and executive ability than most strains. They were
keenly intelligent and fiercely determined, never contented to be just a cog in a machine. A pack of them
became a deadly cooperative group, not just a mechanical organization. Their speed and ability to stay
close to their quarry, keeping it running for dear life, supplied the hunter with thrills from the beginning to
the end of the race.

“Quick to Jump, Runs to Catch.” Three cheers for a July that is a July

__________________
Training dogs is not so much about quantity, it's more about timing, and the right situations...After that it's up to the dog....A hunting dog is born...

Last edited by Reuben on 06-20-2020 at 02:36 PM

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Cotton 1927
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Mar 2016
Location: Central,illinois
Posts: 569

Dogs

Mr Bruce, is right on target once again,he spoke what most don't wanna hear, it's not there pedigree that keeps them from making a coon dog, most don't wanna take the time to train a hound.......

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Old Post 06-20-2020 02:37 PM
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Reuben
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Nov 2011
Location: Freeport,TX
Posts: 1903

I also believe that in selecting for certain traits that it will go hand in hand with other trait changes...just as the fox YouTube I posted...I am talking about hunting traits but same principles apply...

When reading the Jack Davis July hound article it made me think of this fox YouTube...Davis is saying the exact same thing as the fox video but in a different way...the look and hunting style of the July hound of yesteryear and that of the July hound of today...the July of yesteryear was a more racy looking dog...we are talking in general here...I am sure there are some diehards around breeding fast tracking and drifting July’s with that run to catch mentality today but not as many as back then...but that dog probably won’t look as houndy as those of today...

Switching Gears....

I do not know much about the greyhound but I try to know something about all dogs...again personal theory...

What I do know is that they have thin skin and are built for speed and have smaller ears and a narrower aerodynamic type head and nose for cutting through the wind and with the lighter head for reduced weight which will help in increasing speed and endurance...

So how did all this happen? Many of these traits probably happened by accident and not because it was intentional...because as humans we tend to learn as we go and don’t get in it too deep because of our nature...at least the majority of us humans...

So how I believe it happened is exactly how the friendly foxes evolved in the experiment...

When the greyhound was bred to course hare and coyotes it started to take a certain look when bred for speed and the desire to catch...it was out of necessity...

And then when it was bred for racing...now the breeders are splitting hairs...the difference between 1st and fourth place In the race track isn’t much...

So as breeders started breeding for speed other traits started changing...and who cares what the dog looks like if he is winning and then after a while all the racing greyhounds start looking the same...

So in my mind there are two reasons for the thin coat...reducing weight to increase speed and possibly for running cooler...maybe I am wrong but probably not...but there could be other reasons I don’t know about as to why the thinner coat...it is safe to say the thin coat wasn’t an intentional trait that was thought out as a trait to breed for...but it had to happen to be winner...

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Training dogs is not so much about quantity, it's more about timing, and the right situations...After that it's up to the dog....A hunting dog is born...

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Old Post 06-20-2020 02:56 PM
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Kler Kry
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Sep 2009
Location: Monticello, Wi
Posts: 744

LARRY ATHERTON

What is Larrys opinion

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Old Post 06-20-2020 06:13 PM
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Triple K Kennel
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Feb 2013
Location: Indiana
Posts: 4472

Agreed.....

quote:
Originally posted by yadkintar
When a dog either sex is born it's born with its reproducing ability. There have been world champions that could not reproduce at all there have been dogs that have never been hunted at all that through coondogs and there are no guarentees the same cross will work twice.



Exactly what I think.....!!!

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Old Post 06-20-2020 06:54 PM
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mike fleming
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Dec 2003
Location: Abbeville S.C.
Posts: 979

The biggest problem with pups is most never get a chance.when a cross happens on a dog that is hot everybody run out and gets one then the pup sets in the pen and never gets fooled with then it gets 6 months old they take it hunting about 3 or 4 times then whip it and kick it and shock it and scares it to death then they done with it.put it for sell got to many to hunt then go buy the next big thing etc etc.Am I wrong.

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Old Post 06-20-2020 08:41 PM
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Dave Richards
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Registered: Apr 2015
Location: church hill tn
Posts: 5612

Mike Fleming

Absolutely not, you hit the nail on the head. Years ago, men put the time in on a young dog, did not expect a world beater at 6 months old. Today, every one expects a world beater and a natural at 6 to 9 months old, never spending any real time with them. Way to much expectation put on today's dogs by impatient handlers. The real dog trainers know it takes time and boot leather to make a coon dog. Dave

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Ridgerunner1988
UKC Forum Member

Registered: May 2020
Location:
Posts: 315

quote:
Originally posted by Reuben
The article below I copied from another forum and I thought you folks might enjoy it as I did...

The YouTube post that Bruce posted about the taming of the foxes somewhat applies to the article...




The Hunter’s Horn
February, 1956
Page Twenty-eight & Twenty-nine

The July Hound of Yesterday—‘Quick to Jump, Runs to Catch’ –Sets the Pattern for Today
By Jack Davis, Temple, Ga.

Mr. July man, what do you want? Do you want a July hound patterned in performance and appearance after
some other strain or do you want a hound with the characteristics of the old original Julys? Are you going
to try to breed something to hush the criticism within the ranks of some other strains that do not have and
are not supposed to have the July’s characteristics? Or do you want to breed a July hound that is a true
July hound, “quick to jump, runs to catch”?

It seems to me there is not enough uniformity within the strain today. Perhaps some breeders are breeding
for oppositely different characteristics. Perhaps some are trying to breed a hound that will conform to the
standard of performance set up by the breeders of other strains. As a student of the July strain, I have
found a variation in type and performance of July hounds in different communities.

The July hound that attracted almost world-wide attention and gave birth to a burning desire with a
multitude of people to own them, was a strain with certain fixed characteristics. Breeders would do well to
recognize just what those characteristics were and set them up as their objective in their breeding
program.

Old July, when a growing pup, was scorned and laughed to shame. This was because his appearance was
so foreign to the ideal existing in the minds of men as to how a fox hound should look. In that day men of
the South had as their ideal of appearance and performance a smooth-coated hound, with extremely long
pendulous ears, that followed the track closely giving long, drawn-out, bawling musical notes. Old July was
just the opposite. One thing is certain; it was not their appearance or long, drawn-out, musical tonguing
that won the Julys their fame.
There came a day when old July had almost grown up and he jumped and ran a fox to death in the presence
of a number of men. From that moment on his stock soared high. Now, what was the factor that brought
about this sudden popularity? His performance, of course. There is simply no room for argument
whatever. His style of performance was one of being quick to jump and running with a determination to
catch his fox.

Let us analyze the slogan, “Quick to jump, runs to catch.” What enables the July, or any hound for that
matter, to quickly jump a fox even when the strike is cold? If the hound moves with a leisurely gait,
covering every crook and turn that a fox out hunting its dinner makes, that hound will never jump the fox
unless the fox stops, and beds down to rest. Even then it will take a long time for the trailing hound to
come up to him.

The hound that does not make every crook and turn, cuts a few corners and does some drifting, but does a
lot of tonguing meanwhile, will be a long time getting up to its fox. A fox hearing a great clamor from a
trailing pack will move faster and away, keeping its distance as long as possible.

A hound that does a lot of drifting, not following every crook and turn but coursing the general direction of
the line of scent, not wildly but efficiently and fast in a semi-silent manner, will surprise it’s quarry, as the
quarry, undisturbed and unaware of danger, leisurely feeds along its habitual range, and quickly jump it and
put it to running. This is the characteristic that won the July hound the right to be called the strain that is
quick to jump.

How did the July get its reputation of running to catch? Simply because the July hound ran with that
thought gripping and governing its whole being. A hound that runs to catch does not move forward and
give tongue just because it has scent of a fox in its nostrils, but because that scent denotes there is a fox
out ahead that it wants to catch. This type hound does not move ahead when it scents a fox in mechanical
manner just as if that was its whole duty and it was interested in performing its duty only. Any sense of
mechanical duty is thrown to the winds and the hound plunges excitedly ahead, its whole being stirred by
the excitement of the chase and the determination to catch that fox, the scent being only the means of
obtaining the end. It decidedly is not the end.
So, if the hound loses the scent it has not lost its chief object of interest. The scent being only secondary,
it casts ahead knowing full well that the fox almost always moves in a forward direction and the fox is its
primary object of interest, contacting the scent line again, confirming its belief that the fox went in that
direction.

With a slower track-running type of hound interested in the line of scent primarily and the fox secondarily, it
is different. When it makes a runover its chief concern is to find the line of scent again. It makes little
difference to this type of hound whether the line of scent is found closer to the fox or farther away. This
hound checks its pace and makes a tight or close circle searching mechanically for the scent and not for
the fox. A pack of hounds of this type will give one a lot of hound music and precise, mechanical action, but
not as much excitement as a pack that runs with ingenuity and intelligence—to be more exact, as the July
hound of the late nineties ran.

July performance should be the July breeder’s watchword. It seems to me that we as breeders of a strain
should agree on what that performance should be and breed for it, letting the chips fall where they may. In
choosing breeding stock we should choose individuals within the strain who perform according to the
accepted July standard. And these individuals should be from families that perform likewise.

We should refrain from becoming “pedigree happy” and using as breeding stock individuals who are poor
performers from families who are poor performers, although these families have a traditionally good
pedigree. Even if their forefathers were good hounds six or seven generations back, our chance of
getting good hounds from such a mating is one of getting a throwback only.
Any family line can “run out.” We see the proof of this in some human families.

Neither should we use good outstanding individuals whose background is unimpressive, especially in the
close up generations, nor individuals with a radical cross close up on another strain, for it is the July
characteristics we want to intensify and preserve. Just about all outcrosses on strains that perform in a
different manner to the July, made in the past, have been made by men who wanted to introduce other
strain characteristics into the July strain, and not to intensify and preserve the July characteristics. Such
people should get some hounds of another strain if they do not like the July. Let us not try to conform the
July strain to the pattern of some other strain.

The strain in its true and original state had individuality. The tenets of that individuality were such that the
breeders adopted a slogan that should be descriptive of every hound within the strain –“Quick to jump,
runs to catch.”

Evidently the July hounds of the late nineties packed close and well and would hark to one another quickly,
but they also displayed more individuality and ingenuity and executive ability than most strains. They were
keenly intelligent and fiercely determined, never contented to be just a cog in a machine. A pack of them
became a deadly cooperative group, not just a mechanical organization. Their speed and ability to stay
close to their quarry, keeping it running for dear life, supplied the hunter with thrills from the beginning to
the end of the race.

“Quick to Jump, Runs to Catch.” Three cheers for a July that is a July



This is exactly what is happening with most coonhound breeds now. Nobody can get together and agree on anything everyone wants something different. If they dont want what that breed has to offer then that breed probably isnt for them so it's time to move on and find what you like. And my belief is that there shouldn't be any brood females and here is why, yes some brood females to workout great but your taking a chance on the female being able to produce. It's a bigger chance than your taking on breeding a female that is a proven coondog, I know that just because the female is a good dog and the male is a good dog doesnt mean they're going to throw good pups but you have a better chance on producing a good coondog because the pups are going to inherit some of the traits the sire or dam have and if they're both proven coondogs thsn you have a better chance of a good cross. This is a very insightful thread I like it and believe alot can be learned by reading into everything here.

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Reuben
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Nov 2011
Location: Freeport,TX
Posts: 1903

quote:
Originally posted by mike fleming
The biggest problem with pups is most never get a chance.when a cross happens on a dog that is hot everybody run out and gets one then the pup sets in the pen and never gets fooled with then it gets 6 months old they take it hunting about 3 or 4 times then whip it and kick it and shock it and scares it to death then they done with it.put it for sell got to many to hunt then go buy the next big thing etc etc.Am I wrong.


This doesn’t have anything to do with breeding...but it will be one of the top reasons why a pup wouldn’t make a hunting dog regardless of how well it is bred...

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Triple K Kennel
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Registered: Feb 2013
Location: Indiana
Posts: 4472

Breeding.....

Here is the thing that most Breeding issues come from :
You can Read, Study, Ponder, Guess all you want and most of the time its Simply a Waste of Time......there is No Guarantee on what you will get.....Period.
I have seen Good Coonhounds Bred to each other and you might get a decent Pup or Two and you might get the Whole Litter that makes Top Notch Hounds.
There are alot of Hounds being pushed in the Hunts right now that sound like Coyotes barking, but they can get 1st Strike & 1st Tree and be Lonely & Deep......to Win that Big Check.
Thats what it is about these Days.....Money.
They will Breed those same "Winners" and Put a $1500 on those Pups and most of the time have them Booked b4 they are born.

Line Breeding Close or even Inbreeding is the only way you will get Consistency.
Just my thoughts & opinions......Everyone has their own.
Tim

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CONRAD FRYAR
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Registered: Jan 2004
Location: Northwest Georgia
Posts: 1621

I agree only thru a tight thought out breeding program, thought out being? do they have the traits that i want and do both posses? .......*Do not care what they have won!*........

So in this world, there are detail people and non-detail people, detail people need to breeders, non-detail do not, i am amazed when houndsman come over and we talk dogs, i will point to a particular dog and say what do you see? Most will answer a walker! ......yea go further? They don't see anything but a hound.
A detail person will say he has good feet, ear set well, solid tree dog, accurate, balanced etc.......... A balanced hound is the way to go, extreme in different area's will affect pups to go lopsided, that way.
Then there is the discrepancy in hunters thoughts on bloodlines, very few lines of Walkers i will breed to, because of too much tree and no nose, yet i see others bragging on those dogs saying they are track dogs, just because they can tree a coon does not make them track dogs!
Track dogs are Accurate!!!!!! You have to raise lots of pups to pick out these things and be good at it, and it helps to hunt what you raise

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Striving to breed balanced Treeing Walkers.

"Life is short boys, Hunt an intelligent hound"

Born in sin, convicted by the Word, saved by Grace.

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Dave Richards
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Registered: Apr 2015
Location: church hill tn
Posts: 5612

Conrad

Thank you for whst you are doing in your breeding program, stay true to whst you believe in and oreserve the kind if dogs that ared getting scarce. Dogs that sound like hounds should sound, dogs that can cold trail, dogs that tree layups, dogs that you can listen to as they track and tree and be proud of. Dave

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CONRAD FRYAR
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jan 2004
Location: Northwest Georgia
Posts: 1621

Thanks Dave, I also want to point out besides the breeding, how important it is to spend time and train the young hound about life and what you want, they are not robots.
Growing up old timers would say that's a hunting dog not a pet, you will ruin them (false)
Hardwood Saul sleeps in a recliner at my sons house and will hunt you to death...lol He thinks he is human.....
Challenge your pup to all kinds of stuff to make them smarter, it gives you better control and you will see they want to please you.
How many dogs are ruined by being left in the pen? It's a scary number i am sure, then many more because they do something wrong and the owner will not take the time to tweak the problem. It is work i promise you.
Find a good line of hounds that are calm and teachable and your life will be much easier

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Striving to breed balanced Treeing Walkers.

"Life is short boys, Hunt an intelligent hound"

Born in sin, convicted by the Word, saved by Grace.

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Dave Richards
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Posts: 5612

Conrad

You earned my compliment, and I sure agree with you on the training and the right bloodlines. My hunting partner age 82 is one of the best trainers ever, he always has a coon dog that he trained. I have never seen him being mean or cruel to any dog, just mild correction and very little of that. His dogs strive to please him and it shows, he currently owns one of the very best coon dogs I have ever seen and I have NEVER seen him do more than a mild scold or a tiny twig to get his attention. Dave

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Reuben
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Nov 2011
Location: Freeport,TX
Posts: 1903

Many folks on here talk about those that breed strictly off stacked pedigrees and many times they say this does not work...IMO it should work if it were done correctly...
Correctly would mean all the dogs in the pedigree had the right hunting traits and most were related and all had similar hunting traits...

We can’t keep track of all the pups...but if all the pups that were kept and socialized correctly and those that went to excellent hunting homes and those pups could be tracked and included in the percentage count for those that made hunting dogs and those that didn’t...the percentage of pups that made the grade would go up after each generation...

In the stacked pedigree of the grand night and world champions...not all handlers will care if the dog is a proper type hunting dog...they just care to win...and not all the dogs hunted will have consistency in traits nor will the handlers...and then the breeders...not all breeders have or maintain the same standards...

A dog can be line bred and or inbred and lack consistency...
There are many reasons why we can’t get consistency in a litter of pups...

Like Conrad said...a breeder needs to be detailed and consistent...

And before we say it isn’t working because a pup are two didn’t make the cut...step back and look at the big picture...and then compare to what others are producing before making your call...

It seems many folks see one or two data points and they are quick to say it isn’t working...

We also need to not produce one or two good pups and call the breeding a success...

We can go on and on...

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Dave Richards
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Registered: Apr 2015
Location: church hill tn
Posts: 5612

Reuben

Men like Conrad breed for the right reasons, while tons of others are breeding for the dollar. They say money corrupts and I sure see that being true in the dog breeding business. Thankfully we have several dedicated breeders like Conrad, Ceyenne Cummings, and several others that breed for quality and hunt what they breed. I am leaving out a lot of dedicated breeders only because I am not familiar with them, but they do exist in every breed. Those seeking quality pups know who these breeders are, they don't have to advertise. Dave

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