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BLCKRIVREDBONES
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Registered: Jul 2005
Location: Northern Michigan
Posts: 491

Re: Fireball Bred Hounds

quote:
Originally posted by ramiller59
Let me tell you boys a little something about the fireball bred dogs... I have coonhunted for almost 40 years now and I have hunted most all the big name bloodlines there are.. to me the fireball bred dogs were by far the hardest hunting dogs i ever had the pleasure of walking behind.. they could tree a coon when no other dog could find one and they would make it look easy.. could run a cold track like it was just laid and were 98% accurate..

The only other bloodline I thought was a close second was the older Timber Chopper line.. You have some beautiful looking hounds there .. keep them in the woods and look forward to seeing them in the winners circle.. Good luck..



Maggie goes back to Famous Amos who was Timber Chopper bred top & bottom. I think that's one of the reasons why that cross produced like it did and still carries through today. Scott Haynes Roxy female was a full sister to Maggie and produced some top hounds as well when bred to Yellow River Rocky.

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Old Post 03-15-2010 08:06 PM
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thecoondawg76
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Registered: Nov 2007
Location: SW Arkansas
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Twister bred pups?

Well at this point I am wondering which one of these do you all think was the most like old Twister? The reason I am asking is this. The unbeaten Ann Female I had out Twister and my Ginger female was a flat go getter that would go however far it took to find Mr. coon. However, she wasn't Walkery about it. What I mean by that she wouldn't blow past coons first one she smelt she was on him. It's just sometimes that was later than sooner but she wouldn't pass one up trying to get in front of everyone else like she was at the race track. I like a competition dog to go until it strikes move the coon quickly to the tree and do it by themselves if possible but with others if needed. Ann would do all this and make it look easy. The only problem with her and the others I was in contact out of the litter was that they didn't have much of what I call a winding nose. They had to follow the track to wherever it went. This is fine but when they got on a track that say went up a bush across a creek or somewhere a dog couldn't hardly go then it would slow them down until they got past it. I knew from my Hoss / Ginger bred male named Dan ( Who did beat World Champion Fireball Dan in a cast) how handy it was to be able to wind in those situations. This was the reason long before the breeders list I had decided to breed her to Rocky. I wanted to keep it Fireball because of the way they love competition and Rocky was throwing that winding ability in his pups. Also of course this made them triple Fireball from his next to the last litter. The idea was to then take that pup finish it out and breed it back to Twister. Well about that time I lost my NtCh Ginger, Ann, and my pup trainer Sandy got ran over. So I decided if I was going to go to college this would be the time. Well I also got deployed to Iraq for a year with a year of train up. So in all my four years of college ended up taking me almost 7 years. By the time I got back in things Twister unfortunately was no longer around. So back to where I started which do ya'll think is most like him? I sure liked what he produced and I now have a dog that can wind a coon even if it‘s just sitting around from hundreds of yards out, in Daisy.

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Old Post 03-16-2010 03:59 AM
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herdtrip85
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I sent you a pm.

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Old Post 03-16-2010 05:54 AM
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okreds
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Registered: Feb 2004
Location: martinsville, il.
Posts: 1468

Steve,

of those living today, there is a couple that remind me of the old dog very much in the way they hunt. Old Twister was a dog that would wind a coon and move in that direction to strike it. His daughter, Penney, was very good at doing this. You could cast both of them in a certain direction and both might strike in the opposite direction. The Light'in dog that Eddie Terry has reminds me so much, in the way he hunts and trees, of the old dog. The Brush Buster II dog also does the same thing. Each of these dogs prefer to tree split but will tree with other dogs. Of course, Light'in is out of Buster II and our Cootchie Brown female. Cootchie was an inbred female, being out of Penney and her son , the old Brush Buster dog. The old Brush Buster dog was out of Penney and her nephew, Petersons Illinois Red Bud, who came from Penneys litter mate sister. Penneys sister was bred to Ryals Fireball ( no relation to Meltons Fireball ), he was out of Gr. Nite Smiths Red Oak Mike and Gr. Nite Coxs Red Bell from Arkansas. So, Terrys Light'in and Buster II are the two that reminds me of the old dog the most.

Russ Jones of NW Illinois bred his Gr. Nite Female, Ellie Mae, to Light'in. There was thirteen pups, some went to Utah for Lion and bear dogs. Russ kept two, with the others being around his home. Russ's male pup, Little Twister, treed his first coon at the age of five months and three days old. He was hunting him with his mother, Ellie Mae. She struck the coon but Little Twister located and treed ahead of his mother, with the meat. This pup just keeps getting better every time Russ takes him to the woods. The litter mate sister that Russ has is also doing a great job. He describes both as awsome tree dogs. Russ bred Ellie Mae back to Light'in. We have a pup coming from this second cross. Russ also bred Dual Gr. Bunny to Light'in. Bunny is a Grand daughter of the Old Twister dog. We have a couple of these pups coming to our house in a couple of weeks.

Hope this answers your question.

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Old Post 03-16-2010 03:36 PM
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thecoondawg76
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Registered: Nov 2007
Location: SW Arkansas
Posts: 1275

Hmmmm

Well now I am wondering if it was just something about that cross. I only had one that didn't make a coon dog out of that one. But the winding ability was the only short coming. I think I still did the right thing by breeding to Rocky becuase that got me what I wanted just had to go a different way to get it. But that is really interesting. I didn't realize Cootchie was an inbred female, being out of Penney and her son , the old Brush Buster dog. The old Brush Buster dog was out of Penney and her nephew, Petersons Illinois Red Bud, who came from Penneys litter mate sister. That puts them in there tighter than it looks at first glance then on the papers. If he has got that much Twister in him then I would think he would come the nearest to producing like him of anything that is still around, just my opinion. B P & Vs Ok Red Twister did he just hunt a little closer, than Twister? Also the Ellie Mae female what does she go back to becuase if that Little Twister was going that early that may be another possibly down the road? I like those that pick up quick. I sure appreciate your time on getting me caught up since I've been out of the loop a little while. Thanks, Steve

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Old Post 03-16-2010 04:29 PM
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In Redman Hound
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In Redman Hound
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***HOME OF WHERE COONDOGS & TREEDOGS ARE BORN NOT MAN MADE***

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********(((One More Little Dump Kennel = Daylight)))********

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!********* I THANK GOD FOR EVERYDAY I'M LIVING & MY 2nd CHANCE ON LIFE *********!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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thecoondawg76
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Registered: Nov 2007
Location: SW Arkansas
Posts: 1275

Thanks

Thank you Mr. Terry.
Now I see what is going on. These females are being pushed by the same blood as Twister himself, Fireball on Swinging Red Rock. I really like the way this Bunny female is bred up tight like that when bred with Lightning or another close Twister bred stud they should really be producing. Now things are starting to come together. Thanks, Steve

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Old Post 03-16-2010 08:40 PM
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In Redman Hound
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Your Welcome Steve

Both of these crosses should produce coondogs the way they are bred. Russ sure is happy with his pups he will be breeding Bunny back to Light'in soon as she comes in.

Light'in is as good a layup dog as I have ever hunted in 44 years he is death on them & Rock is coming rite behind him,Rock has started droping in there & just dieing on them trees & is in no way a still dog he opens real nice on the ground.

To tell u a little about how Light'in can tree a layup here is a # you can call & ask this man how good he is on them 1-765-774-4292 Mr Guffey he is a English man ((BUT)) is hunting a pup off Light'in.

One night back last summer we treed 5 layup coons about 6 miles from where Mr Guffey was hunting, coon were not moving they were just laying out on there dens & thats a bad place to be if your a coon & Light'in is in the same woods. They couldnt find a track to run or didnt even make a tree feel free to call him & ask him what he thinks.

You cant go wrong on hunting them Fireball dogs. And Swing Red dogs. ((JMO))

Thanks REDMAN !!!!!

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***WE HAVE STARTED DOGS TIME TO TIME FORSALE. THANKS FOR LOOKING***

***HOME OF WHERE COONDOGS & TREEDOGS ARE BORN NOT MAN MADE***

***A PROVEN LINE OF DOGS THAT IS WORKING GREAT ON BEAR & COON & MT. LION HAVE PLENTY OF REFS. ON THEM YOU CAN CALL.***


********(((One More Little Dump Kennel = Daylight)))********

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!********* I THANK GOD FOR EVERYDAY I'M LIVING & MY 2nd CHANCE ON LIFE *********!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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thecoondawg76
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Registered: Nov 2007
Location: SW Arkansas
Posts: 1275

Ellie Mae

I just noticed last night that she is the #3 current reproducing female. That's interesting. Also I was wondering what all titled dogs that came out of Swing Red Rock you all knew? I want to say maybe NiteCh Ch PR Clouse's Talltimber Talker and GrNiteCh GrCh PR Morgan's Revern Red? If that's right then the grandad of the Ranger dog would also be heavy on this blood.

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Old Post 03-17-2010 02:43 PM
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okreds
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Registered: Feb 2004
Location: martinsville, il.
Posts: 1468

Steve.

Old Twisters mommy, Terrys Miss Mable, was strong in Timber Chopper on the top and strong Swing Red Rock on the bottom. In my opinion, the Swing Red Rock blood was where the hard hunting drive came from in the old dog. As you know, with the old dog, once turned loose, there was no return. He always would be treed when you found him. When the old dog struck, you might find him treed close or up to two and a half miles deep. Once struck, he was going to tree that track, regardless of how far it went. There was absolutely no quit in him and yes, he was a stay put tree dog. He had an outstanding mouth. I've heard him treed up to two and a half miles from where he was turned loose. He barked 75 to 80 barks per minute on the tree, very steady.

The B P & Vs Twister dog hunted a little closer than his daddy. He would get deep at times but maybe the difference was the number of coons here in Illinois vs down in Oklahoma where Old Twister spent his first three years. The coons down there were just not as thick as they are up here.

I too like the way Russ's Bunny female is bred. She and Ellie Mae are both strong Swing Red Rock bred.

Later.

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Old Post 03-17-2010 02:54 PM
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Glenn Garrett
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Alot of the pups off of Swing Red Rock were owned by hide hunters but they were coon dogs.Ole Rock didnt sire alot of pups. But for the small amount alot of houndsof today go back to Swing Red Rock. The two pedigrees shown on this post The hounds in them Ive been lucky to have hunted with most all of them and have raised and hunted alot of them. If you go back more on those pedigrees you will see alot of Swing Red Rock

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Old Post 03-17-2010 03:11 PM
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thecoondawg76
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Bloodlines

Sounds like then that Bunny and Ellie Mae may be alot like Lightning if you could see a few past the 3 gen. ped. then things start to line up more.

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Old Post 03-17-2010 03:20 PM
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thecoondawg76
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Registered: Nov 2007
Location: SW Arkansas
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Drive

For me anything I've hunted with out of Fireball would hunt hard. The difference I seen in my Ann female and her littermates was hunting hard and going however far it took to tree a coon, no matter what. I mean I had a, come to find out later, tornando come over us at a hunt in Tx. one night. She stayed out there through the whole thing waiting for the storm to blow over and then swung out after it past and a few mins. later was treed on the coon. In the mean time the three walkers I was with came in and got minused 3 times, a piece. There were times in the river bottoms if they weren't moving she would be miles in but I could hear her becuase she had a good loud voice. But there again she wasn't what I call walkery about it if something was close she'd slam it to.

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Old Post 03-17-2010 03:32 PM
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Roger Hall
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Registered: Jul 2003
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Nite Ch. Swing Red Rock


This is a picture of Mitchell Bennett and Nite Ch. Swing Red Rock in 1963 with some of his winnings. Rock was born Sept. 25, 1957. He was out of Keelings Magills Nero. Nero was out of the Great Magills Jungle Jim and Tenn. Valley Kate Cross.

I have a six generation pedigree on Rock I got from Mitchell. Rock goes back to the original Midnight Flyer dogs that helped start this breed years ago several times. He also had the great Payday in him several times. He had dogs in his pedigree with 4 digit numbers. Rock went back to where it all started for the Redbone breed.

Mitchell said Rock only produced about 75 pups but you will be hard pressed to find a dog today that doesn't have him at least once in their 7 generation pedigree. Over the years we have worked Rock into are program several times. C D has Rock in him 10 times in 7 generation and as close as the 5th gen. My first male Redbone back in1973 was Nite Ch. Halls Timber Tack he was a grandson to Rock.

Some of the dogs that Rock produced that you see in pedigrees today are Nite Ch. Clouses Silvertone Jet, Nite Ch. Clouses Talker, Nite Ch. Thunder Bill and McDonald's Comet. Some of the dogs that went back to him in later years that folks have used are Nite Ch. Hennings Chief and Gr. Nite Ch. Browns OK. Twister.

It's a shame this dog didn't get used more as a stud dog. It's had to say where we would be at if he had been. Some of the best coondogs and hardest tree dogs I hunted with back in the 1970's when I first started were son's and grandson's of old Rock.

Mitchell line breeds on old Rock still today and we have been working will Mitchell some in are breeding program the last couple years and have produced some pretty nice young dogs. We have a female hear now of Mitchell's that will be bred to CD when she comes in. She is Rock bred very heavy and a real nice coon dog and a super tree dog.

Just a little history about a Great coon dog.

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thecoondawg76
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Swing Red Rock

Well Mr. Hall I didn't realize that C.D. had that much Rock in him and thanks for the picture. Also I know for sure that my old NtCh Ginger female had both Nite Ch. Clouses Silvertone Jet, Nite Ch. Clouses Talker in at least the 6th. gen. with Timber Chopper 7 times many in the 7th gen. I need to look at her papers to she if any of the others match up. Also it's hard to tell from the picture but was Rock a lighter colored dog? I know alot of stuff out of him and shows up today still was lighter colored but I didn't know if that came from him or the females he was bred to. Don't bother me either way since he reproduced like he did.

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Old Post 03-17-2010 09:34 PM
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Glenn Garrett
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Ole Rock was med red and some white in his chest.

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Old Post 03-18-2010 01:13 AM
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thecoondawg76
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Thanks

Mr. Garrett I'm afraid I don't know you but you seem to very knowledgable on this old hound. I appreciate your time on this. Look forward to possibly meeting you in the future.

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Old Post 03-18-2010 01:19 AM
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Glenn Garrett
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Ive hunted with this strain of hounds since i was 14 years old. and be more than happy to talk to you about them.but if i was you i would call Mr Mitchell Bennett of Ashland Mo.He rasied Swing Red Rock and at 77 years old still hunts that strain of hounds.Ive been lucky to have Mitchell asa hunting partner for the last 30 years He knows this strain of hounds in side and out.Give us a call if we can help you out.Mitchells phone 573-657-4589 Glenns phone 573-657-2957

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okreds
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Steve,

I might add that Fire Ball himself went back to Swing Red Rock in his Ped. Just in case you didn't know.

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redpower
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As a redbone man I am really enjoying this post the history and all. Keep it up Thanks

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Old Post 03-18-2010 06:36 PM
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thecoondawg76
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Swing Red Rock and Fireball

I noticed I think somewhere earlier in the post that Swing Red Rock was in Fireball to. Makes me wonder if maybe there was enough of that, that pulled through on Fireball to make it where he cross so well on stuff out of Rock and why Fireball decendents still cross so well on his decendents. Something I have noticed is normally when something works well even if there is what some think is an outcross, if you look back a ways you will find some simularities, sometimes alot. Thing is it's not like there was some big pool of blood to draw from to start with and which ever ones were the best/promoted the most, are the ones that got bred to the most. I mean you can't even compare us and even Black and Tans to the rest. Walkers, Bluetick, or English way back there were all bred together as one breed, leaving thousands of choices to chose from. But I think we have done just fine with what we have through hard work. I just like to find out what all is going on in these crosses and about the dogs themselves, this stuff is priceless to me. I sure appreciate everyones contributions so far. Also Mr. Garrett you can garuantee I will be contacting you and Mr. Mitchell before to long to talk some more about these Rock lines.

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Old Post 03-18-2010 07:27 PM
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thecoondawg76
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I think we've got some of the go power straightened out.

Now I'm wandering what thoughts are on tree power? I'm talking about the feet on the wood or in Twisters and my old Ginger dogs case foot , can't knock em off the tree, tree power. This is how old Ginger got her first, everyone else broke out in a fight she just kept rotating around the tree to stay out of it. I sure like them if they a belly up like my Ann dog and my new female Daisy. But as long as they stick to the tree that's what I want. Trouble with some that don't stick to the tree they are great coonhounds but some folks will sure stick you if they can, if you got one that hangs back. Well shoot I even got minused at an RQE by a bunch of walker guys I had beat several times before becuase my dog stopped to pee while trailing. That would have made her a GrNtCh before I lost her. Can't do much about that but keep going. What I can do is breed for the stuck like glue tree dog. So what's everyones thoughts?

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Calamity in Ca.
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Sep 2007
Location: Anza, Ca.
Posts: 100

Fireball line

We are relatively new in the redbones (about 5 years) but have tried to acquire and breed some quality dogs. We are stuck out here in Ca. where coonhunting is in a class with stealin' kids and beatin' up grandmothers. I'm not aware of very many hunt competitions nearby. We did get some feild trial points on a male we own who is a grandson of GRNITECH GRCH'PR' Fireballs Little Hattie. We would be interested in a female pup out of your line to cross back on him. He is a GRCH as well. I like the looks of your dogs, They have nice looking heads and the big eyes. Please put us on the list for your next litter that you think would go with this.

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Old Post 03-19-2010 03:14 AM
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redpower
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Dec 2008
Location: arkansas
Posts: 1136

I cant remember what UKC calls it, but would be an ancestrial drop showing the different big name dogs down through the years that actually go back to Swing Red Rock .

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Old Post 03-19-2010 01:44 PM
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