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What do you think is the reason for some of the male studs being overlooked.

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Registered: Mar 2014
Location: Hartselle, AL
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Jealousy is the biggest thing. Our breed has so many ppl trying to promote a stud dog that they don't wanna go breed to anything else and push someone else's bloodline. The B&T breed will always have a jealousy side.

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I have an old myers bred male that is 13. Only bred him 4 times and have turned several people away during the past 11 yrs because of less than average females and I didn't feel that he reproduced a product equal to or better than him.

This biggest problem is people trying to breed females that are not worthy of breeding and expect the litter to be coondogs. I believe that the female is the big part of the breeding and if they don't turn out the stud dog gets blamed. Face the fact if 2 to 3 pups from each litter turn out it was a successful breeding. I'm sitting here with a female that is a 60% reproducer from the only time she was bred. That is from being in the right hands and right places.

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Because everyone with a male that has two nuts thinks they have a stud dog! Some years ago if you wanted to super stake your male it was 800.00 for a year,,,,, well most blue collar men didnt dare spend 800 unless they had hard proof their male was reproducing. Now came the performance sires of ukc, for 100.00 you get your dog on a list and have yourself a stud dog! Well about anyone can recycle beer cans and come up with 100.00 to perf sire their male and now they are gathering females and breeding junk to junk. Thus making the legitamate reproducers be under utilized and or overlooked.

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quote:

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Originally posted by nick miller
Because everyone with a male that has two nuts thinks they have a stud dog! Some years ago if you wanted to super stake your male it was 800.00 for a year,,,,, well most blue collar men didnt dare spend 800 unless they had hard proof their male was reproducing. Now came the performance sires of ukc, for 100.00 you get your dog on a list and have yourself a stud dog! Well about anyone can recycle beer cans and come up with 100.00 to perf sire their male and now they are gathering females and breeding junk to junk. Thus making the legitamate reproducers be under utilized and or overlooked.

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All of the above.

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Shane

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And thus, there again goes back to jealousy. Who is to say who does not have a legitimate stud and who does? What about those that have a real coondog but don't competition hunt? Do we need to have a true definition of a stud dog= a male dog who wins the big hunts and everyone has popularized, or, a male dog that ...............????
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I have a female now that I am really liking. Once she is titled I plan to breed her to Magnum. Not to sell puppies but to have one because I like both of the dogs and feel they can fill in gaps that both dogs have. After that I already have 2 males picked out to breed her to. Also not to sell pups but because I like the dogs I have seen out of them or the dog itself. Unlike a lot of people, I will title this female and watch her become a very nice dog. Not breed her to the hottest thing goin. The main problem right now is breeding everything as soon as it comes out the womb just to make money.

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Agree with all these comments. Flavor of the month. Jealousy and wont go out of the buddy system, and $$$$, and if its not titled just a flat out coon dog pleasure hunted forget about it. People need to wake up swollow the pride and do the research

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Registered: May 2013
Location: Rome Ga
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my male white's spring river runt is full of reproducers of there own kind saying that i dont no if my male has got the reproduceing ability have to see. if people would get off the score card dogs and get back to coon dogs it would get better. me and my guys has got a set of standers that has got to be met but we will breed to what the male or female is lacking to get what we want. the best male or female in a litter is not always going to be the reproducer it could be the lesser dog in the litter that is the reproducer. that has been proven, folks should breed to the ability of a dog and what they are lacking eather male or female not titles. i like mouth. track speed. nose, hunt and tree power i look for natural tree dogs. not saying they have to bark 100 barks a min to be tree dogs but they have got to look up and stay, and be tree minded. when you breed coon dog to coon dog you got a better chance. then put that speed in there.

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quote:

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Originally posted by nick miller
Because everyone with a male that has two nuts thinks they have a stud dog! Some years ago if you wanted to super stake your male it was 800.00 for a year,,,,, well most blue collar men didnt dare spend 800 unless they had hard proof their male was reproducing. Now came the performance sires of ukc, for 100.00 you get your dog on a list and have yourself a stud dog! Well about anyone can recycle beer cans and come up with 100.00 to perf sire their male and now they are gathering females and breeding junk to junk. Thus making the legitamate reproducers be under utilized and or overlooked.

---

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quote:

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Originally posted by dawgg03
Mr Miller I agree!! Can you buy me a cup of coffee lol. Andrew I know your intent of titling your dog is a good one. But I could care less if it's got that peice of paper because it don't make them any better. I'm not breeding to sell anyway just improve what I have. Most people get on here wanting to know what would cross on their female! Ever think about hunting a few of these studs to find out? Jealousy yes it is in the breed but I think the biggest thing people settle to easy anymore. You can feed a good one as cheap as you can feed junk.

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And hunting with their off spring don't show what your going to get. I've seen one litter throw two good ones out of five. Same cross junk. And just because he can throw a few good pups don't mean your female will. That's where it starts anyway for me a good female.

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But your right it's nice to see what he can throw in his pups.

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Not jealousy Larry, we all have spent more time in the woods than we probably should have and know the difference between a good hound with some traits to offer and one thats common as horse manure in a texas pasture,, the hard part is admitting to ourselves that the pup we paid 3-500 dollars for might need to be turtle bait and will never help going forward. A dog doesnt have to win big hunts or even be titled to be a nice hound or a reproducers no doubt, my point was how does a hunter offer a male at stud thats never covered a female,,, it just seems to me a dog should have some pups showing promise before offering them at stud. I know this all to well, I owned a grnt male that was a once in a lifetime hound and compete with anyone but could never throw anything like himself

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quote:

---

Originally posted by nick miller
Not jealousy Larry, we all have spent more time in the woods than we probably should have and know the difference between a good hound with some traits to offer and one thats common as horse manure in a texas pasture,, the hard part is admitting to ourselves that the pup we paid 3-500 dollars for might need to be turtle bait and will never help going forward. A dog doesnt have to win big hunts or even be titled to be a nice hound or a reproducers no doubt, my point was how does a hunter offer a male at stud thats never covered a female,,, it just seems to me a dog should have some pups showing promise before offering them at stud. I know this all to well, I owned a grnt male that was a once in a lifetime hound and compete with anyone but could never throw anything like himself

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so who is jealous of who exactly?

if any particular individual has the end all of stud dogs why would you want to push it anyway??? go clean house on everyone and take the "trophies and money".

and..... even if you have the latest greatest stud dog reproducing machine it doesnt matter very few are gonna hunt pups hard and make real deal hounds. them pups are already golden by birth. beating the bush is a lot harder than talking pedigrees.

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YOU TWO GUYS GET AROUND AND HUNT WITH DIFFERENT DOGS AND I KNOW THAT BOTH OF YOU KNOW WHAT A GOOD COON HOUND IS. RIGHT NOW OF ALL THE STUD DOGS BEING ADVERTISED AND PROMOTED AND HUNTED IN THE HUNTS OR MAYBE THERE JUST SUPER NICE REPRODUCING HOUNDS OWNED BY A PERSON THAT DONT HUNT THE HUNTS CAN YOU TWO GUYS GIVE ME YOUR TOP THREE STUDS THAT YOUS CALL A GOOD TOP REPRODUCEING HOUND AND THEY REPRODUCE BETTER THAN THERE SELVES ,,I RESPECT YOU TWOS OPINIONS.AND LIKE MATT ABOVE SAID,,PRETTY WELL YOU HAVE TO BEAT THE BRUSH AND HUNT ANY PUP THAT YOU BUY TO GET THE FULL POTENTIAL OUT OF IT TO PROVE A HOUND CAN REPRODUCE BETTER THAN ITS SELF AND THATS WHATS WRONG WITH A LOT OF PUPS THAT ARE BOUGHT THERE NOT HUNTED LIKE THEY SHOULD BE TO GET THERE FULL WORTH AND ABILITY HAVE A BLESSED ONE ,,,RON AND LOVIS THIS IS A GOOD POST !

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Getting those few pups on the ground without putting them out there for stud is hard for some as well. You need to have a good female to breed to and those are just as rare as the male IMO.

Me personally I have never been able to have two of that caliber at the same time until I was well off enough to go buy one, and believe me that ain't cheap if you get something above average.

So as it is I have three dogs, two good ones and a cull that is my daughters pet and has been fixed so she will never reproduce.

I have never bred my male, but I intend to in the future for myself. I am not saying he would but if on accident he were to have something to offer the breed nobody would know about it much cause I am making the cross for myself and will be keeping a couple pups, the others will go to friends that want one out of him. Even if all of them made World beaters and did well (which any litter is lucky to have 1 in 10 that is good and a few average to above average dogs I have enough sense to know that and wish it were better) he would be dead by the time anybody but my small circle of friends knew much about him.

So another way to look at it is maybe the numbers that hurt us in the hunts (it's hard to beat math and statistics) also hurt us. For years there were Walker studs on every corner. Kind of where we are today. But then a few came along and were bred early enough that everybody was able to get some that want some.

Maybe with this many offered we will find those few that can really continue to advance the breed.

That's my hope anyway.

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If jealousy isn't part of it then why is it everytime a stud dog question is on this forum very few people responds about another stud be sides their own ? I hunts at least 5 nights a week and maybe go to 6 hunts a year and from what I see by going to these hunts is there isn't enough culling in all the breeds and that is what has made the entire problem of what's out there. We would be better off if these big stud dogs would start being selective on what they bread to like the small time guys do who just want to get a pup for themselves. I got me a tuff young male now myself after 4 years of culling and I will be one of the small time guys who will never breed him to anything, buy my own person female if I ever get one. Just because I'm a poor man who loves to pleasure hunt and can't afford the game of the stud world, but if I could afford to hit the hunts and promote one every female would be hunted for at least a week and pass my standards before being bread.

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I'm not sure if I would call it jealous but maybe that you just don't like the owner of the stud. I have found myself not breeding to certain studs just because of the way I was treated or the owner was an arrogant jerk. We live in a fallin world and some people just can't get along with others. The reason for me not breeding to certain studs is definitely distance. First he has to have certain qualities that I'm looking for. I've driven many miles to get a top female bred only to have zero pups. Some times nature is a cruel lady.
For instance, after doing my homework on a stud, I sent a female to a IMO top stud only to have zero pups. But that's just the way it is. I don't breed dogs for a living. I just breed for me.

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CAN ANYONE ON HERE NAME 2 STUD DOGS THAT ARE BEING PROMOTED RIGHT NOW THAT REPRODUCES BETTER OFF-SPRING THAN THEY THERE SELF ARE ?AND NAME THE DOGS THAT ARE BETTER THAN THEY ARE THANKS HAVE A BLESSED ONE ,,,RON

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I personally think it's a combination of all the above.. Jealousy always has been part of it and always will be... Just a fact.. Lack of promotion plays a part bc some may not promote a dog as hard as someone else.. When I think of promoting it's more than just putting a ad in the year book or magazines etc.. Some just can't travel to the bigger hunts.. Which in my opinion plays a big part in what people start breeding to.. Along with reproducers list.. Which can be a useful tool but if you really look at it and see the percentage of all stud dogs in all breeds the numbers aren't really that great. Even at 20% that's only 2 out of 10.. Now you look at the females repo list n then you get into the bigger percentages but then the sample size is smaller..

The BBB issue I think is more influential bc we all ask our buddies what they'd breed to if it was them.. N then some seem like they don't have aind of there own n breed to what there buddies say instead of what they want to..

Location always plays a part just bc most don't want to pay the piper to travel to breed to a specific stud or pay for the chilled or frozen seamen.. So those good studs don't get bred as much..

N then there's those who will breed any ol bitch to the hit stud dog just to try and make a few dollars..

I think if more would do selective breeding and culling you'd see an improvement and the numbers would show it as well.. N what's the old saying numbers don't lie.. Lol

Good post Lovis

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I thought jealousy would have been the least factor, I'm not sure why that would matter much?

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Shane

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I THINK ITS A COMBINATION OF ALL THE ABOVE THAT LOVIS PUT ON HERE. WHEN YOU ADD IN THAT WE ALL HAVE DIFFERENT QUALITYS AND ABILITYS THAT WE LOOK FOR IN A STUD DOG.I KNOW OF A COUPLE STUD DOGS RIGHT NOW THAT ARE AWSOME BUTT KICKIN HOUNDS BUT I WOULDNT BREED TO THEM.BECAUSE THEY DONT HAVE THE MOUTH THAT I LIKE OR THEY LOOK LIKE A CUR DOG ECT,ECT, THIS IS JUST AN ILISTRATION ,WERE ALL DIFFERENT HAVE A BLESSED ONE ,,,RON

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