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nextcoonhunters
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jul 2015
Location: mo
Posts: 749

score this

Dogs are cut loose get struck in the one dog trees others go on after scoring the tree cast walks back out in the field no dogs heard barking eight is started one guy says dogs are getting close to a major highway and wants to call a time out majority 3 to 1 agree what should be done with the strike points and why just wondering

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Old Post 06-05-2018 02:20 PM
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yadkintar
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Registered: Jan 2013
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5f and 7a

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Old Post 06-05-2018 02:33 PM
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nextcoonhunters
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don't have a score case handy today would you mind posting what they say thanks

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Old Post 06-05-2018 02:40 PM
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yadkintar
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Actually 5g if if judge has to call time in accordance to rule 7 delete.

Rule7a says when dogs are getting on highway trail on to posted land or trail onto a place that is a danger to dogs or hunters call time out.



Tar

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Old Post 06-05-2018 02:46 PM
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nextcoonhunters
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Registered: Jul 2015
Location: mo
Posts: 749

Garmin

Okay but under no circumstances can telemetry be used in the scoring of a dog no dogs barking so I don't know about a highway but the rule quoted says dogs trailing on to posted land. Ain't they suppose to bark at least some when trailing without a Garmin you'd have no idea if they were getting close to a highway or standing fifty yards over in the timber so can you score points off a Garmin

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Old Post 06-05-2018 03:15 PM
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yadkintar
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Ain't no cast win worth getting Sombody hurt or a dog killed. Crap we all look at the garmins now if that guy shows me his dog is on the highway I am going to help him to keep his dog from getting killed.


But that's called sportsmanship !!


Tar

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Old Post 06-05-2018 03:21 PM
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JiM
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Regardless of anything else, if a majority of the cast votes to call timeout, then time is out and all strikes are deleted.

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Old Post 06-05-2018 03:25 PM
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DMG_3
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Registered: Mar 2009
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X2...what Jim said

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Old Post 06-05-2018 03:37 PM
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Bob Hennessey
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Nothings says you can't call time out. The question was what do you do with the points. The rules state you can't use a garmin to score the dogs, therefore if time out is called, dogs would be minused strike points and 1 hr. to catch dogs. If I was in cast I would take my minus and catch my dog as quick as I could. I would scratch my dog if I was outvoted to call time out.

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Old Post 06-05-2018 03:40 PM
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Dogwhisper
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Delete per 5 (f,g).

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Old Post 06-05-2018 04:10 PM
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JiM
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Registered: Sep 2010
Location: New Paris, Indiana
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quote:
Originally posted by Bob Hennessey
Nothings says you can't call time out. The question was what do you do with the points. The rules state you can't use a garmin to score the dogs, therefore if time out is called, dogs would be minused strike points and 1 hr. to catch dogs. If I was in cast I would take my minus and catch my dog as quick as I could. I would scratch my dog if I was outvoted to call time out.


I'm not quite understanding you here Bob, forget the Garmin, don't really matter why you call time out, if time out is called, then all strike points get deleted. There is nothing to minus.

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Old Post 06-05-2018 04:24 PM
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Blaine Stout
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Registered: May 2005
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I could be very wrong but if the 8 is started then the nothing can be done until the 8 is broke or 8 min. is up.

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Old Post 06-05-2018 04:27 PM
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joey
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jun 2012
Location: McRae Ar
Posts: 3701

quote:
Originally posted by yadkintar
5f and 7a


x2

and I do not think UKC would consider this scoring a dog.

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Old Post 06-05-2018 04:35 PM
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pttm08
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Registered: Apr 2011
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Posts: 1149

IMO you are not using the Garmin to score a dog, you are determining there location. Using a Garmin to score a dog would be staring at it and declaring the dog treed.
The purpose that everyone fought to get Garmin's in a hunt was because you had to be able to see if they were close to a road.

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Old Post 06-05-2018 04:40 PM
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pamjohnson
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Feb 2012
Location: airville,pa
Posts: 2072

quote:
Originally posted by JiM
I'm not quite understanding you here Bob, forget the Garmin, don't really matter why you call time out, if time out is called, then all strike points get deleted. There is nothing to minus.
it does matter why time out is called. now here is were stretching the rules come into play. because if time out is called for any other reason than safety reasons. than stretching bending or twisting is being done if the points weren't minus. seems everyone can up with an excuse when it's convenient though. just because three agree to call time out doesn't make it right. it could mean 3 agreed to bend the rules.

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Old Post 06-05-2018 06:05 PM
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JiM
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Sep 2010
Location: New Paris, Indiana
Posts: 7076

quote:
Originally posted by pamjohnson
it does matter why time out is called. now here is were stretching the rules come into play. because if time out is called for any other reason than safety reasons. than stretching bending or twisting is being done if the points weren't minus. seems everyone can up with an excuse when it's convenient though. just because three agree to call time out doesn't make it right. it could mean 3 agreed to bend the rules.


Go back and read the original question. There is no mention of Garmin. It is a very simple question. Dogs are going towards highway, time is called, what happens to strike points? That is the question I answered. All the Garmin stuff was brought up by others and was never part of the question. As if we never knew a dog was headed toward the highway until we got Garmins.

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Old Post 06-05-2018 06:13 PM
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pamjohnson
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Registered: Feb 2012
Location: airville,pa
Posts: 2072

i didn't mention garmin either.
jim you said didn't matter why time out was called, i was just stating that it does matter so everyone don't get confused.
highway threat should be deleted points.
calling time out when ever the cast just feels like they want to without minus wouldn't be ok.

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Old Post 06-05-2018 06:29 PM
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JiM
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Sep 2010
Location: New Paris, Indiana
Posts: 7076

Well, I think we will just have to disagree on this one because I cannot find anything in the rules that allow anything other than delete strike when time is called.

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Old Post 06-05-2018 07:02 PM
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Allen / UKC
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Registered: Nov 2004
Location: Michigan
Posts: 9197

quote:
Originally posted by JiM
Regardless of anything else, if a majority of the cast votes to call timeout, then time is out and all strikes are deleted.



That's it.

A majority of cast voting to call timeout because telemetry showed the dogs nearing a hwy and in danger, is not considered by UKC as using telemetry to score dogs. What you can't use telemetry for is to determine whether or not dogs moved after having been declared treed etc....

Dog safety was the #1 reason for implementing the use of telemetry during the course of a hunt. You would still need a majority to call time out. If a majority is not reached, at least the handler has the option to withdraw and go handle the dog.

Bob H. mentioned the 8 minutes was running therefore time couldn't be called. Not sure why not, if the dogs are in fact in or nearing danger. If handlers are misusing the timeout rule for anything other than its intent, then each one of them is exposing their personal lack of integrity and blatantly violating Rule 7. It's as simple as that. Handlers voting to call time out for any little road falls under that same category. I have to chuckle sometimes when handlers will pull over next to a road, park, turn the dogs out from there and later in the hunt "use" that same road as a dangerous place for the dogs to get near for nothing more than to delete points to benefit themselves.

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Old Post 06-05-2018 07:08 PM
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blueticker
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Registered: Jul 2003
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Posts: 5398

Pretty sure this rule is abused by cheaters. It's in place for several reasons but mainly hound safety. If a cast win is more important to you than the safety of someone eylses hound, you need to reevaluating your sportsmanship.

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Old Post 06-05-2018 07:13 PM
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joey
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Registered: Jun 2012
Location: McRae Ar
Posts: 3701

I had a guy a couple of months back want to call time for getting on posted land. Theirs was all on the leash and we were going to mine treed. He said we have to call time and I had to go get my dog. I asked who owned the land we were hunting on. He told me so I pulled out my Garmin and showed him mine was still on the property. I love technology.

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Old Post 06-05-2018 07:17 PM
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Pat Bizich
Banned

Registered: May 2004
Location: northeast
Posts: 1278

quote:
Originally posted by JiM
Regardless of anything else, if a majority of the cast votes to call timeout, then time is out and all strikes are deleted.


Jim, to me this is too generalized a statement and the way guys bend and twist rules to save points will/can be in the future used to not take minus points because it said so here. I am sure you did not mean it the way it sounds.
It "MUST" be stated that delete is only an option when in accordance with any statement in Rule 7.As the original question pertained to Highways and such.

Rules state 4(e)strike points minus for calling dogs off trail.
After viewing some of the results to Rule Questions Allen posed it appears that these rules definitely need fuller clarification on what is and is not allowed.
I know for fact this happened in a hunt.
Two dogs were grubbing a track. Third dog not opening.
8 minutes ran a couple times. Judge says lets call time out and try for a better track.The other guy agrees .So there you have your majority and the judge would not minus the two dogs because "Majority" agreed to call time out. The third guy was afraid to question it even knowing it was wrong because the MOH threatened if any questions came back he would scratch the whole cast involved.

This happened to me too in my earlier years .
I was guiding a 4 dog cast. There happened to be a fox denned in this one area we turned out in. Well,3 dogs were struck in.Pretty soon this fox goes to barking at the three opening hounds. Mine was not in with them cause he was broke off foxes.It was pretty obvious the three hounds were trailing this fox. The judge asks a couple times what is that? I chuckled a little and said oh.there is a fox that likes to try and get the dogs after it in here.Boy,did three grown guys start getting the shifty feet.
Finally judge states lets catch these dogs and get out of here.I protested they could not without calling minus.MAJORITY RULES !! Cast agreed . No one took minus points .

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Old Post 06-05-2018 07:48 PM
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yadkintar
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Registered: Jan 2013
Location: Marietta
Posts: 10790

Y'all realize this is the computer age when y'all can't agree with a rule that is in black and white on here with what you say against it you are assentionally showing this young bunch how to cheat with it thus creating your own problems just sayen lol.



Your right Allen !!!!!!!!


Tar

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Old Post 06-05-2018 08:06 PM
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Dogwhisper
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What u xpect ... In anutter thread we got 2 advisors being referenced...,pick one any one it's all good . .lol😁

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Old Post 06-05-2018 08:24 PM
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blueticker
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jul 2003
Location: Columbus, Ks
Posts: 5398

When i guide i wiil tell the cast theres a highway 2 miles south, three miles east, and a land owner a mile north that doesn't allow hunting. Situations often come about where interference may need attention but to use interference to win is cheating and that makes old grumpy men stay at home and pleasure hunt.

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The Hounds I Enjoyed Hunting:
Dual Gr Natural Smokey River Rebel, A buddy of mine
Gr. Nt Natural Blue Echo ( Gr Nt Quail Ck Jimmy X Nt Ch Natural Blue Bell)
Gr Nt Smokey River Chief's Joe (JBS Chief X Gr Nt Jeans Ruby)
Gr. Nt. Ch. Natural Smokey River Lucy (Chief's Joe X Muggins)
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