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Reuben
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Nov 2011
Location: Freeport,TX
Posts: 852

quote:
Originally posted by Richard Lambert
Why should they be healthier or less prone to illness? Canine illnesses are in canines. I don't know of any walker specific or bluetick specific illnesses. You might be breeding illness into your walker line from the blueticks. There is no reason to believe that the pups would be healthier than if you outcrossed to another line within the walker breed.


Richard...the way I understand it...prone to illness due to breeding depression (Tired Blood) means both parents have too many similarities in genes so there is not enough variation in the genes that the pups inherit...not enough gene variation is what makes the dogs prone to illness, smaller dogs, infertility issues etc...this affects all living beings...

There are genetic issues within certain breeds or strains that doesnít have anything to do with breeding depression...

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Training dogs is not so much about quantity, it's more about timing, and the right situations...After that it's up to the dog....A hunting dog is born...

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Old Post 12-10-2019 12:47 AM
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Reuben
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Nov 2011
Location: Freeport,TX
Posts: 852

If I owned a good line of walkers that needed a shot of new blood I would look to another strain of walker to help my bloodline out...

Second choice would be a different breed of hound that has similarities and it would probably be Big Country...

Next choice probably a dog from a long line of coon dogs...the Plott hound...while similar in hunting style this breed comes from Germany so there should be more diversification...

The choice between English pointer or German short hair...that is a no brainer...it would be the German short hair...the breed is measured against a working and hunting standard and not on competition wins...

IMO...there should be enough similarities in the dog used for outcrossing that there should be consistency in the offspring produced...

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Training dogs is not so much about quantity, it's more about timing, and the right situations...After that it's up to the dog....A hunting dog is born...

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Old Post 12-10-2019 01:03 AM
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Reuben
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Nov 2011
Location: Freeport,TX
Posts: 852

Diversity in the mutt gene pool...

When I was a kid all my dogs were mutts that were thrown away way out in the country and they just showed up at our front porch...some I kept and others my dad moved them on...every one I hunted made excellent hunting dogs...most of what they ate daily was what we caught...if I couldnít hunt for a few days they went on their own... I think they fit in the pack because they had a great incentive...donít catch...donít eat

We never wormed nor vaccinated the pups or dogs...never even took a dog to the vet...

When I got my first real job I bought a large type Airedale...a man needed to get rid of him ASAP...I think he paid 350 delivered...that was a lot of money nearly 50 years ago...I paid 50 bucks and he was a great looking pup out of Quachita kennels in Mena, Arkansas...I had him for a month and he got pretty sick...my first time to take a pup to the vet...he was diagnosed with distemper and he passed away...after a little research I found out that purebreds pups run the risk of dying from illness or worms...more so than mutts because their genes are not as diversified...the genes not as diverse is why redbones look like redbones and walkers look like walkers etc...

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Training dogs is not so much about quantity, it's more about timing, and the right situations...After that it's up to the dog....A hunting dog is born...

Last edited by Reuben on 12-10-2019 at 02:28 AM

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Old Post 12-10-2019 01:20 AM
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shadinc
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jun 2014
Location: Louisiana
Posts: 2159

I think Tar wants a bluetick and don't wanta come out and say it.

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Old Post 12-10-2019 02:07 AM
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yadkintar
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jan 2013
Location: Marietta
Posts: 9591

quote:
Originally posted by shadinc
I think Tar wants a bluetick and don't wanta come out and say it.



I donít know why I canít get that blue dog off my mind I guess the way he operates I guess. Back when I lived in Texas in the 80ís we hunted rock hills and cedar brakes only big trees were on the creeks. Those old style dogs would run a coon in July and august for over an hour and I mean run it !! And tree it !! And it was hot and dust blowing then we would pull them off and tree a couple layups on the way to the truck. That blue dog is that kinda dog. But I like my dogs too so..............hybrid vigor.



Tar

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Old Post 12-10-2019 02:28 AM
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Reuben
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Nov 2011
Location: Freeport,TX
Posts: 852

Re: Big country

quote:
Originally posted by osimpson4
I haven't got the chance to hunt with him yet, but I seen Steve a couple months ago and we talked about him over supper one night. By the way he described he was a sure enough coondog with all the coin sense in the world. Said he would tree them close or far, in front of or behind a dog , whatever it took. And he always seems to know where to go find one. I'm kinda thinking about a crossbred one myself lol. [/


Who in their right mind want a straight running deep and alone when they can strive to have one like big country...I say cull them all and breed to the big country standard...a real coon dog or hunting dog for that matter...The quote is worth repeating...


Said he would tree them close or far, in front of or behind a dog , whatever it took. And he always seems to know where to go find one. I'm kinda thinking about a crossbred one myself lol. [/B]

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Training dogs is not so much about quantity, it's more about timing, and the right situations...After that it's up to the dog....A hunting dog is born...

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Old Post 12-10-2019 02:41 AM
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Donnie Stevens
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jul 2004
Location: Nova Scotia,Canada
Posts: 2381

quote:
Originally posted by yadkintar
I donít know why I canít get that blue dog off my mind



Don't be shy tar I want one too lol. Admitting it is the first step

There...I said it out loud I feel better already. ...

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Old Post 12-10-2019 02:42 AM
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Richard Lambert
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Aug 2004
Location: Chattanooga, Tn
Posts: 17681

Yes, admitting that you have a problem is the first step. The next step is to sell your walkers and get a couple of blueticks.

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Old Post 12-10-2019 02:50 AM
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DL NH
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Registered: Jan 2016
Location:
Posts: 226

I'm no breeder. Have only raised a few litters of beagles and coon hounds.

I probably don't know 1/4 of what many of you do about genetics and breeding hounds. My observations over the last 40+ years of owning and training hounds are likely not in the same league as many of you. It seems to me the best that the average amongst us can do is know exactly what we want in a hound and find someone who has or raises what we like. Wether we buy it as a fully broke and seasoned hound or a pup that comes from parents who came from parents and grandparents that were the type that fit what we like. Forget the titles as they mean little at the end of the day for the majority of "hunters" who are just looking to walk to the woods with a consistent hound that can account for its game.

Sadly, many or perhaps most who raise a litter are as concerned or even more concerned with having titled parents for fear of not being able to sell the pups without a pedigree laced with a titled ancestry. Somehow many of us seem to think that if the hound we're going to breed to or buy a pup from has to come from a few hundred miles away if it's going to be any good. In my opinion way to many breedings happen with very little or no first hand knowledge of what the hounds behind what they're breeding to or buying a pup from are.

I think my best chance for getting a decent hound comes from parentage that reflects a heritage of reproducing above average progeny. It seems to me that this is often where those once in a life time hounds arise from. And they just may be closer to home than we imagine they might be!😉

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Old Post 12-10-2019 03:34 AM
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Redneck Mafia
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Aug 2013
Location: Seneca, Mo
Posts: 4222

quote:
Originally posted by yadkintar
Completely out of the breed gives you a completely different gene pool still is a hound but no relatives multiple 5 or 6 times like the walkers.


Should also be healthier less prone to illness.


Tar


Unless that sire carries the same genetic disposition for those diseases. The idea that hybrids are actually healthier is not proven.
And as Richard asked earlier are all hybrids considered to have hybrid vigor, the answer is no. The offspring is only as good as the gene pool available. You are not guaranteed heterosis and an over dominance in all the things you are looking for. If so all these designer breeds of dogs would exhibit superior health, stamina and reproduction to their purebred counterparts. Even in the know coonhound world of x breeding and crossbreeding that has taken place for decades if not centuries in some cases you would see the same thing in a consistent basis and we know that is not true. Even in crossbreeding you should be selective in what you are breeding for and maybe you will get heterosis with over dominance in all the right places nose, speed, health, mouth and accuracy to go with it. Knowing what traits are brought to the table from each line on a consistent basis but if it were a guarantee the superior dog would not be an anomaly it would be as common as dirt. There was a time not that long ago that grade dogs were in bigger numbers than registered. Some were from selective crosses (chosen coonhound to chosen coonhound regardless of breed), some from ready and able nearby and many from when Harry met Sally (hound x ?). All hound gene pools are much more varied than many will ever know or admit if they do. Single registration of hounds by breed brought in lots of unknowns. I do think that breeds that bred and accepted only a low amount of color variations did fall more quickly behind by culling for color as opposed to for ability, no offense meant to anyone.
Point of all this make your crosses based upon what desired traits you are looking for but complete outcross, with in breed or even inbred with thousands and even hundreds of thousands variations that can happen there are no guarantees. Imo 50% of a dogs ability comes from natural genetic disposition the other 50% is environment and much depends upon you.
Best of luck and may the stars line up for everyone's future crosses!

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Old Post 12-10-2019 05:18 AM
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