Registered: Jan 2006
Location: WV
Posts: 821

One thing I believe is sometimes we can get stuck in a rut when breeding dogs. We may have one line that is doing what we like and want to stay close to that line, which is fine, but, with all the other good breeders out there, there's a good chance someone has improved quite a bit on certain traits we may desire. I've always tried to improve on what I have and to be honest what I have on the end of my leash. That's a hard thing to do, especially if we love the dog we're hunting but if we want to move forward, we must do this or be left behind. I enjoy a good dog but I enjoy a better dog more. Breeders are making improvements each and every day and if we don't capitalize on them, well, we have no one to blame but ourselves. As always, everybody is inclined they're own opinion and mine is just that, my own, lol.

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Registered: Jan 2013
Location: Marietta
Posts: 10790

Those kind of high caliber track dogs are scarce and once you have had one it’s hard to enjoy anything less.


Tar

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Registered: Dec 2013
Location: Nichols Ny
Posts: 1565

So do you have a superior track dog if it gets 100 strike off the snap on 90% of casts or better? Reason I'm asking is because some guys are confusing a babbler with superior tracking.

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Eric DePue
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Registered: Jan 2013
Location: Marietta
Posts: 10790

quote:

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Originally posted by novicane65
So do you have a superior track dog if it gets 100 strike off the snap on 90% of casts or better? Reason I'm asking is because some guys are confusing a babbler with superior tracking.

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Registered: Dec 2013
Location: Nichols Ny
Posts: 1565

quote:

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Originally posted by yadkintar
They know the difference !! They play the game to win they could care less about a good ole honest coondog.


Tar

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Eric DePue
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Registered: Jan 2013
Location: Marietta
Posts: 10790

If your dog opens off the snap every time you cut here where I live you got a babbling dog. If your dog opens off the snap and every coon is treed deep you got a babbling dog. If handlers wait till 10 seconds until the minutes up to strike their dog after it barked non stop from the snap or ( they strike them off the snap if they need it ) every drop.


They got babbling dog.


Tar

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Registered: Nov 2011
Location: north ala.
Posts: 902

If a guy don't know if his dog is babbling or not he needs to quit hunting!! It's not that difficult if you hunt the dog any amount at all.

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Registered: Dec 2017
Location:
Posts: 340

A dog can wind a coon a good ways. You will never get me to believe they are winding a coon on every drop you make though. If that was the case , why do they all get struck under the minute an split up at the 200 yd mark? Using that as an example. If the dogs today that are being struck off leash are legit, why is there a shortage of true track dogs. It doesn’t make sense an people are foolish to believe that a dog that is struck at every drop pretty much before it leaves the light an ends up a mile or more deep with coon. Yes , it has a coon . But it’s nothing more than a babbling fool running through the country looking for a hot pop up. Not saying that there is not any true , legit track dogs in the hunts today. It would sure take a mighty fast one to beat some of these so called track runners to the tree. It does take plus points to win in most any big hunt these days . Some might call the ones winning big a coon dog. I don’t. It’s what that is happening from the time the dog is cut loose to the time it makes it to the tree that has me against it.

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Registered: Dec 2013
Location: Nichols Ny
Posts: 1565

Ok, as long as most of us are on the same page. I do agree I wish I was more excellent track dogs not just in hunts but in general. I don't think they were ever very common to begin with. But I have seen a couple in my couple years seeing these dogs go. I've seen dogs track coons and many other critters 20 yards or more off the actual tracks that the animal left in snow. I won't say its a very common occurrence but I have seen it more than once. Just happens to be the conditions on those days the scent was drifting off the track a good ways.



Now I'm never going to say I know everything, or I know more than anyone but you have to be honest with what you've got on your lead.

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Eric DePue
Hill Country Kennels Itty-Bitty
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And
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Registered: Feb 2012
Location: airville,pa
Posts: 2072

Answer this question. If a dog strikes any track other than coon is it any different than a dog that is striking thin air?or Is it worse?

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Registered: Dec 2017
Location:
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quote:

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Originally posted by pamjohnson
Answer this question. If a dog strikes any track other than coon is it any different than a dog that is striking thin air?or Is it worse?

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Registered: Dec 2013
Location: Nichols Ny
Posts: 1565

quote:

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Originally posted by pamjohnson
Answer this question. If a dog strikes any track other than coon is it any different than a dog that is striking thin air?or Is it worse?

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Eric DePue
Hill Country Kennels Itty-Bitty
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And
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Registered: Sep 2009
Location: Monticello, Wi
Posts: 744

quote:

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Originally posted by Reuben
I agree with these comments...

When choosing pups I am looking for natural instincts or as others would say natural ability...

Example...

Bay style;

Taking all factors into consideration, the first time the puppy bays a shoat and gives chase is a big positive in my minds eye...if the shoat is backed into a corner and the pup is baying fairly tight with tail swishing and he’s hackled up is a big positive as well...I am reading the pups mind and I like what I am reading...and if he gets down on his front end when baying I know what the pup is wanting to do and I know how he will be when grown...all the above, a big A-Plus to the pup in this area of testing...

ACCURACY, Lack of accuracy or slick treeing are topics often discussed on this forum. A SLICK TREE IS AN UNFINISHED TRACK.

The next pup needs a few months of exposure before he bays and more time to give chase and he stands back back to bay and seems to be over cautious...I won’t be very happy with the results...the two things that are always in my mind when dealing with pups...I want natural abilities because this type of pup is born with it and he will make the best dog more often than not...and the second reasoning...because I don’t have much kennel space I want to keep dogs that are well rounded in all areas possible...besides making better hunting dogs I want a dog that has better potential as a breeding prospect...I want the dog that has a better chance of reproducing what I like...

Same thing with tracking ability...I test all my pups for winding and finding tiny pieces of meat in my back yard...some will say, that’s not testing for tracking ability...l will say this...when the dog is grown and he is hunting and when he gets in the woods and there is a slight breeze and he winds scent coming off of an older track...and he immediately goes 200 yards to it and works it out he will be a pretty good dog...and he runs the track with his head up and it is a feeder track...and find testing as a pup pays off here as well...because he makes it look easy finding The hot end of a feeder track...at least that is my perception of why to test pups...

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Registered: Jan 2016
Location:
Posts: 589

quote:

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Originally posted by novicane65
Ok, as long as most of us are on the same page. I do agree I wish I was more excellent track dogs not just in hunts but in general. I don't think they were ever very common to begin with. But I have seen a couple in my couple years seeing these dogs go. I've seen dogs track coons and many other critters 20 yards or more off the actual tracks that the animal left in snow. I won't say its a very common occurrence but I have seen it more than once. Just happens to be the conditions on those days the scent was drifting off the track a good ways.



Now I'm never going to say I know everything, or I know more than anyone but you have to be honest with what you've got on your lead.

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Registered: Sep 2009
Location: Monticello, Wi
Posts: 744

quote:

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Originally posted by DL NH
Believe it or not there are certain snow conditions that will make a man think he's got a hound with a lot more nose than it actually has. Snow with a favorable moisture content coupled with a barometric pressure that is lifting the scent to the dogs nose will make a medium nosed dog look like a million bucks if it posses the other necessary skills to push a track.

I'd dare say that the truly cold nosed track dog that can turn that track into a running track and put its game in a tree or to the hunters gun is rarer today than it ever has been.

Why would any competition hunter want a truly cold nosed dog? Sounds counterproductive to me if the name of the game is to rack up all the points you can get.

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Registered: Feb 2012
Location: airville,pa
Posts: 2072

How or even if a dog opens on track has nothing to do with what kinda track dog they are. Definitely not.

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Registered: Feb 2012
Location: airville,pa
Posts: 2072

quote:

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Originally posted by Kler Kry
Most competition hunts are won or lost due to lack of accuracy. A slick tree is an unfinished track which could indicate a poor tracking ability.

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Registered: Dec 2017
Location:
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quote:

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Originally posted by pamjohnson
you might be surprised by how many are offgame.

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Registered: Jan 2014
Location: Ky
Posts: 294

I was thought take a coon skin run it up a tree turn pup loose , if they found it and tree on it let them have it. I am just a pleasure hunter but alway willing to learn a new method. Where is the best place to get a book or dvd on teaching a dog to be more track driven

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Registered: Dec 2013
Location: Nichols Ny
Posts: 1565

quote:

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Originally posted by Joseph Nalley
I was thought take a coon skin run it up a tree turn pup loose , if they found it and tree on it let them have it. I am just a pleasure hunter but alway willing to learn a new method. Where is the best place to get a book or dvd on teaching a dog to be more track driven

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Eric DePue
Hill Country Kennels Itty-Bitty
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And
Partners on a few common trashy young dogs

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Pr Broken Oaks Wild Blue Gypsy

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 1540

What kind of nose/track dog will win the $50,000.00 next year!😉

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Registered: May 2016
Location: Palatka, FL
Posts: 5103

Pick 100 coon hunters and span about 3 generations of hunting experience with you choices. Ask them to describe a track dog. What one is and how one operates. I think the answers will be all over the place. Then you want to see if they really know anything. Ask them which breed has the coldest noses. If you aren't confused yet. Think about this. When two people can't agree on characteristics of hounds. How can two people breed dogs and expect results that both will like. They say it is lonely at the top. Not because you're the only one there. You're the only one that thinks what you have is tops.

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Registered: Aug 2004
Location: Chattanooga, Tn
Posts: 22462

Do comp hunters even want a dog with tracking ability anymore? Most of them want a dog that won't even fool with a bad track. If their dog bogs down on a track, they want them to go on and find a better track. They train them to do that by walking in and pushing them on or shocking/toning them. They don't let them try to learn to work a bad track.
Garmin's have taken a lot of the tracking ability out of our dogs. If they run a fast track, they get shocked. If they try to work a bad track, they get shocked.

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Registered: Dec 2013
Location: Nichols Ny
Posts: 1565

quote:

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Originally posted by Richard Lambert
Do comp hunters even want a dog with tracking ability anymore? Most of them want a dog that won't even fool with a bad track. If their dog bogs down on a track, they want them to go on and find a better track. They train them to do that by walking in and pushing them on or shocking/toning them. They don't let them try to learn to work a bad track.
Garmin's have taken a lot of the tracking ability out of our dogs. If they run a fast track, they get shocked. If they try to work a bad track, they get shocked.

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Eric DePue
Hill Country Kennels Itty-Bitty
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And
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GrNtCh, PKC Ch Hillbilly Bildo
Pr Broken Oaks Wild Blue Gypsy

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Registered: Jan 2013
Location: Marietta
Posts: 10790

As in any game the rules dictate how the game is played. In ukc I think at the major hunts you will see a difference in the scores for the better.


Tar

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