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Richard Lambert
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Registered: Aug 2004
Location: Chattanooga, Tn
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It is hard to minus a dog that doesn't have any strike points to minus. The silent part doesn't bother me as much as assigning minus points to a dog. That is going to run off more handlers than it will attract.
Hunts will quickly become a matter of turning 4 dogs loose and walking to 4 trees. Now that is great if you live in an area that has 4 coons in every tract or patch of timber. But if you live where there are only 1 or 2 coons then 2 or 3 dogs are going to have to leave the country to try to find their own.

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Team Mafia 2
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The same exact style of dogs that are winning the big hunts now are still going to be winning under these rules. Itís hard to beat a hustling loner type dog that has a coon when he parks. Babbling Me to dogs are a MINORITY IN THE WINNERS CIRCLE.

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yadkintar
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Registered: Jan 2013
Location: Marietta
Posts: 9436

quote:
Originally posted by Richard Lambert
It is hard to minus a dog that doesn't have any strike points to minus. The silent part doesn't bother me as much as assigning minus points to a dog. That is going to run off more handlers than it will attract.
Hunts will quickly become a matter of turning 4 dogs loose and walking to 4 trees. Now that is great if you live in an area that has 4 coons in every tract or patch of timber. But if you live where there are only 1 or 2 coons then 2 or 3 dogs are going to have to leave the country to try to find their own.




Dogs donít know the rules people do very few times are you going to pull off a tree and not have a dog still running so you have to cut anyways. If your dog when you pull off a tree runs strait past coons to a dog treeing and the tree is closed your dog is not properly trained and you need minused. I have got 300 minus in 15 minutes before ! 25 minus ainít nothing. I got 650 minus in a $$$ hunt one night and won my cast.



You need a drink brouther ?


Tarbaby

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Mike McCool
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Posts: 150

the problem thats going to happen is when all dogs are split up walk 1000 yds to dog a treed other dogs were still trailing in other direction dog a has coon walks 50 yds cuts his dog you think hes going to let you walk back where you can here your dog.

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novicane65
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Registered: Dec 2013
Location: Nichols Ny
Posts: 1220

You'll have to walk back the direction you last heard your dog. He can't recut until you hear the open dog or the 8 is over. Unless I'm not understanding the ruling at all. Basically the same as CHKC rules on that. Which if it was up to me at local hunts, I'd fire mine in your direction not away from it. But I can see what you're saying.

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pamjohnson
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Registered: Feb 2012
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quote:
Originally posted by Richard Lambert
Oh my goodness, didn't Dalton just voluntarily keep Shack on the leash for the last 15 minutes at AO Finals?
?

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Robert Johnson
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Registered: Dec 2006
Location: Springfield, Ga.
Posts: 3865

quote:
Originally posted by Richard Lambert
If a tree is "dead" after 3 minutes, you can't tree a dog on it. The new rule says that dogs at a tree when the cast arrives will be assigned next available position and minused. Now after 3 minutes the next available position is zero since the tree is dead and you can't tree in on it. What are they going to do?

Now having a tree countdown, I can understand. And saying that a tree is dead after 3 minutes, I can understand also. But this assigning tree points and minusing them makes no sense to me whatsoever.



This one rule is the absolute death of the sport in these eyes. It makes no sense at all, and there are going to be many "discussions " in the woods over this. TOTAL B S. Yep, everyone will have that deep, and deeper lonely nut, but around here there will not be a place to hunt them. Pleasure hunting is looking better all the time.

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yadkintar
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Registered: Jan 2013
Location: Marietta
Posts: 9436

quote:
Originally posted by Robert Johnson
This one rule is the absolute death of the sport in these eyes. It makes no sense at all, and there are going to be many "discussions " in the woods over this. TOTAL B S. Yep, everyone will have that deep, and deeper lonely nut, but around here there will not be a place to hunt them. Pleasure hunting is looking better all the time.



Rock your wrong It keeps the cast competing closer instead of blowing past coons yíall need to hunt under it before you draw judgement. I have hunted under it a bunch ! think about this you think this ole fat , crippled , washed up kid would be for somthing that hurts you ? I would be crying fowl on every post lol.


Ainít many going to take minus thatís dogs are treeing coons. All the old guys are coming back they are gonna be some coon clinics put on. But if you want to be Debbie downer go ahead.


Mr positive !!


Tarbaby

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Richard Lambert
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Registered: Aug 2004
Location: Chattanooga, Tn
Posts: 17541

quote:
Originally posted by yadkintar
.... yíall need to hunt under it before you draw judgement. I have hunted under it a bunch !
Mr positive !!
Tarbaby



Mr Positive, what kennel club that you have hunted in a bunch has this rule?

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novicane65
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Dec 2013
Location: Nichols Ny
Posts: 1220

quote:
Originally posted by yadkintar
Rock your wrong It keeps the cast competing closer instead of blowing past coons yíall need to hunt under it before you draw judgement. I have hunted under it a bunch ! think about this you think this ole fat , crippled , washed up kid would be for somthing that hurts you ? I would be crying fowl on every post lol.


Ainít many going to take minus thatís dogs are treeing coons. All the old guys are coming back they are gonna be some coon clinics put on. But if you want to be Debbie downer go ahead.


Mr positive !!


Tarbaby




I don't get why guys are so against these rules. If your dog is treed for 3 minutes it would be still been there for the 5 min. Its just now you can't cut your backing dog towards a treed dog and get 75 points for doing nothing but covering. I do like the new rules by reading them, I'm hoping I understand them correctly is all.

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Sgraves
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Registered: Dec 2017
Location:
Posts: 248

quote:
Originally posted by Robert Johnson
This one rule is the absolute death of the sport in these eyes. It makes no sense at all, and there are going to be many "discussions " in the woods over this. TOTAL B S. Yep, everyone will have that deep, and deeper lonely nut, but around here there will not be a place to hunt them. Pleasure hunting is looking better all the time.
Have hunted under this rule, like it a lot. Takes a trained dog that knows what you want an can stay out of trouble. This rule will take care of the back packers. If you have a dog that doesnít blow through the country an can tree every coon it comes to ole deep an lonely will have his hands full. No leash lock on top of that to.It will be a must that a man spends as much time as can be spent pleasure hunting an working on his dog for these rules. Yes people will find ways to cheat. A real hunted up coon dog will prevail with these rules.

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novicane65
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Registered: Dec 2013
Location: Nichols Ny
Posts: 1220

quote:
Originally posted by Sgraves
Have hunted under this rule, like it a lot. Takes a trained dog that knows what you want an can stay out of trouble. This rule will take care of the back packers. If you have a dog that doesnít blow through the country an can tree every coon it comes to ole deep an lonely will have his hands full. No leash lock on top of that to.It will be a must that a man spends as much time as can be spent pleasure hunting an working on his dog for these rules. Yes people will find ways to cheat. A real hunted up coon dog will prevail with these rules.



Absolutely agree. Some of the guys that are having a hard time grasping the rules have never hunted CHKC.

For all the nay sayers.......Go check out when Dark Side of the Moon won the CHKC World hunt. She treed more coons close than the deep n lonely dogs. But she wouldn't have been able to if she was on the leash.

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Richard Lambert
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Registered: Aug 2004
Location: Chattanooga, Tn
Posts: 17541

quote:
Originally posted by Sgraves
..... and working on his dog for these rules.......


What exactly does this mean? I take it to mean that you think that we will now have to retrain or change our dogs just to fit this new rule change.
And isn't the CHKC defunct now? These rules must not have helped them. If we were going to copy another Kennel Club's rules, maybe we should have picked a successful one.

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yadkintar
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Registered: Jan 2013
Location: Marietta
Posts: 9436

quote:
Originally posted by Richard Lambert
What exactly does this mean? I take it to mean that you think that we will now have to retrain or change our dogs just to fit this new rule change.
And isn't the CHKC defunct now? These rules must not have helped them. If we were going to copy another Kennel Club's rules, maybe we should have picked a successful one.




The **** problem is a management problem not a rules problem. They did have the best rules in the business
Now we do ! I am 30 miles from headquarters hunted in a bunch of them really Richard quit loven ole red just because he is red and you are old. If you going to race get you a race car if not learn how to tidley trot at the bench shows.

Tarbaby

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Sgraves
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Registered: Dec 2017
Location:
Posts: 248

Another thing, people saying the silent, independent dog will take over . I canít see that either. Two dogs or all four strick the same track an tree . No matter if they are open or silent they will be competing against one another. Thatís what we want . Because it will be the handlers job to tree first an the tree points will work out .Yes there will be pitching going on .But this is what everyone is so butt hurt over. An this is my honest opinion. More than likely if your dog wasnít involved with what I said above , an shows up at the tree after the 3 is up it left what it was doing an deserves a minus. An besides if my dog done that I wouldnít like it . Heís wasting my time an I am drawing minus. Stiff competition is coming, an the rules are set for it.

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Nathan Phenix
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Registered: May 2017
Location: West Plains Mo
Posts: 344

I think new rules works good for seasoned houndsman that can train dog not cover ( not as many naturally independent dogs as people say) But for young guy starting out he fixin take lots minus and get really discouraged. Also some older men still attending hunts will not like new rule. I understand 2 things that everyone needs to. 1 you cant please everyone. 2 complaining about something isnt goin change it so either play by new rules or stay at house. I personally dont see any problem with new rules. I hate one hour hunts but with new rules being faster pace it should let cream rise to top more on shorter hunts.

Guess we will all know more in another 5 or 6 months.

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ov_blues
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Registered: Feb 2007
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Under the current rules a dog fiddle farts around and backs a dog on a slick tree and most people don't have a problem with assigning next available on the tree and minusing the backing dog.

New rules a dog fiddle farts around and backs a dog on a tree with a coon and people are having a problem with assigning next available on the tree and minusing the backing dog.

I think it all comes down to whether a person feels like a dog should back another dog on a tree with a coon in it whether the backer treed a few seconds behind the other dog or treed a few minutes behind the other dog.

My initial feeling was that was wrong to minus the backer on a coon but then I thought about just pleasure hunting and I don't want my dog hitchhiking behind another dog that far behind another dog no matter what the circumstances. Pleasure hunting one night with a guy and his two dogs treed, mine was in and out on the tree and she didn't want to tree with them for whatever reason but wouldn't get out of there. I ended up busting her butt and sending her out of there. The guy I was hunting with got a little mad when I did and said "you don't think my dogs have a coon?". I told him "it doesn't matter, she needs to either get on the pot or get off of it." We didn't find a coon on his dogs tree but I found mine shortly after that under a coon. So my point is, if I am training for a coon dog I am training for a competition hunt too.

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Sgraves
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Registered: Dec 2017
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I donít mind if a dog backs as long as he helps run the track. A dog can travel a long ways in 3 min. No one wants to get beat by a dog that stole undeserving points. This is competition not pleasure hunting.Makes me mad pleasure hunting to.😆

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nextcoonhunters
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jul 2015
Location: mo
Posts: 380

Rule 7

Proposal 7. Treeing but not Declared Treed When Judge Arrives. (Passed 5-2)
Any dog(s) treeing, but not declared treed, when the judge arrives shall be assigned next available tree points. The dog shall be awarded next available tree points and minused both strike and tree if; coon is seen, tree is slick, or off game is seen. In the case of more than one dog; split available points.
I don't know if they go in for 75,50,25 divide if more than one dog, or just 25. "In the case of more than one dog; split available points" makes it look like they would get 2nd tree right on down? And no I have no problem giving a dog that is out there doin nothing minus for finally coming in and backing. Don't know that I agree with giving a dog minus for treeing a coon than seeing what your dog has treed and treeing if it has a coon. As far as no leash lock does that mean when I get to the tree before we shine I recut my dog, than we score the tree. No sense in him watching me shine for 8 min. he knows he has him, time for him to go get another one.

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Tony Dominguez
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If a dog is running the same track & backs later then 3 min it deserves a minus, if itís not running the same track & covers it deserves a minus for quitting its track. Either way this rule was changed for a dog that trees the most coons to win...

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ov_blues
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Registered: Feb 2007
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The problem is that if a dog is the first dog treed and scored that when they are recast they might get with another dog that treed after they did and the three minutes is up on the second dogs tree. This is going to get the first dog to tree a coon some minus points and the second dog treed is still going to have more points overall even though it took him/her longer to get trees with a coon than the first dog. This is going to mean to avoid those minus points people are going to have to train or breed even more for dogs that are independent. A dog would always get their strike minused before but now they will also get some tree points minused. That is the biggest difference.

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G.W. Harring
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Registered: Nov 2016
Location: Nebraska
Posts: 35

quote:
Originally posted by Richard Lambert
What exactly does this mean? I take it to mean that you think that we will now have to retrain or change our dogs just to fit this new rule change.


I'm going to go out on a limb here......but as I read the new rules, I'd assume anyone used to hunting a backpacker might not like them and might want to do some training.
If someone wascounting on getting first "bark" points and then slide'n in 3+ minutes late on a tree after the coondog treed the coon and they would pick up 175 plus points for it in the past...well, now they may want to do some train'n.
BUT, you can bet those that don't feed or hunt that style will be smile'n now when Ole First Bark Meeee Tooo rolls in after 3 mins.

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Mt tough
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I donít hunt pkc much because I hate a dead loaner there is no place for one at my house. I like a dog that will tree his coon get a piece of yours tree himself another one and then get some of somebody elseís. I absolutely refuse to break my dogs from covering, hounds are pack animals. Itís no fun to me to turn four dogs loose then walk to the four points of the compass to different trees. When I cut my dog off a tree and a dog opens I expect him to go help that dog,unless he strikes a track going to him. I wonít change what Iíve bred for 20 years to fit the rules. The way the rules are now Iíll get minused for cutting off my tree towards a treed dog thatís tree is dead. Do I think he should get a piece of that coon ,no. But should should he be minused for covering because thatís what heís bred to do when he did nothing wrong by my standards I donít think he should. With that pleasure hunting looks really good right now

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yadkintar
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Registered: Jan 2013
Location: Marietta
Posts: 9436

quote:
Originally posted by ov_blues
The problem is that if a dog is the first dog treed and scored that when they are recast they might get with another dog that treed after they did and the three minutes is up on the second dogs tree. This is going to get the first dog to tree a coon some minus points and the second dog treed is still going to have more points overall even though it took him/her longer to get trees with a coon than the first dog. This is going to mean to avoid those minus points people are going to have to train or breed even more for dogs that are independent. A dog would always get their strike minused before but now they will also get some tree points minused. That is the biggest difference.




Buuuuuut indapendant in a way to keep stuffing coons up ole snoop barkie barks backsides instead of going to him playing his game.


Tar

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ov_blues
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Feb 2007
Location: Pomeroy, Ohio
Posts: 2599

quote:
Originally posted by yadkintar
Buuuuuut indapendant in a way to keep stuffing coons up ole snoop barkie barks backsides instead of going to him playing his game.


Tar



I absolutely agree! A person who puts some time in with a real good & well trained coon dog has got even a better chance of winning now which may upset some folks that will like to blame the "screwed up" rules when they get beat.

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