Registered: Oct 2003
Location: soddy daisy,tennessee
Posts: 448

Posing this questions for any and everybody to throw their two cents in on.
1. WHAT IS UKC'S POSITION ON HEAVY, TIGHT, LINEBREEDING?
2. WILL THEY REGISTER THE LITTER?
3. WHAT IS EVERYBODY'S OPINION ON SELECTIVE TIGHT LINEBREEDING.

iM TALKING ABOUT FATHER/DAUGHTER...MOTHER/SON.....FULL BROTHER/SISTER CROSSES. IF YOU HAVE A MALE WITH WHAT YOU CONSIDER THE TOTAL PACKAGE AND YOU HAVE HIS DAUGHTER AND ALSO THINK SHE IS THE TOTAL PACKAGE, HAS ANYONE EVER CROSSED THE TWO FOR A 3/4 LITTER. MY OPINION IS, ITS LIKE A SACK OF POTATOES. YOUR ONLY GONNA DUMP OUT WHATS ALREADY IN THERE WHETHER GOOD, BAD OR BETTER. WHAT YALL THINK? REMEMBER IM TALKING ABOUT SELECTIVE NOW, NOT JUST CROSSING TO PUT PUPS OUT, BUT TO TRY AND BETTER WHAT EVER YOUR HUNTING..

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Registered: Jul 2003
Location: Buffalo, NY
Posts: 2147

Sounds like inbreeding to me. I am personally not a fan.
Line breeding, different story.

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Registered: Feb 2005
Location:
Posts: 1739

quote:

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Originally posted by khester7923


iM TALKING ABOUT FATHER/DAUGHTER...MOTHER/SON.....FULL BROTHER/SISTER CROSSES.
That's inbreeding .

As long as your breeding for your own pleasure ...why be concerned what someone else thinks , but yea
Go for it.......don't live life regretting you "SHOULD of done" ......jmo


IF YOU HAVE A MALE WITH WHAT YOU CONSIDER THE TOTAL PACKAGE AND YOU HAVE HIS DAUGHTER AND ALSO THINK SHE IS THE TOTAL PACKAGE, HAS ANYONE EVER CROSSED THE TWO FOR A 3/4 LITTER. MY OPINION IS, ITS LIKE A SACK OF POTATOES. YOUR ONLY GONNA DUMP OUT WHATS ALREADY IN THERE WHETHER GOOD, BAD OR BETTER. WHAT YALL THINK? REMEMBER IM TALKING ABOUT SELECTIVE NOW, NOT JUST CROSSING TO PUT PUPS OUT, BUT TO TRY AND BETTER WHAT EVER YOUR HUNTING..

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Registered: Mar 2009
Location: tn
Posts: 667

UKC will register inbred pups, but papers will say inbred. Some will criticize, some will approve. At the end of the day, it's your decision. I have made crosses like this, and my only advise is to be responsible for your actions. Cull what needs culling. Don't convince yourself that they all have to be good, caused you raised them. If it works continue with only the very best of the pups. Judge them as hard as you would if you were trying a dog to buy.JMO

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Registered: Jan 2004
Location: Northwest Georgia
Posts: 1621

I have a coming 3 yr old cross that is half brother x half sister. nothing on papers, like them so much i will take her back to her sire. Just like ssgied said be responsible.

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Striving to breed balanced Treeing Walkers.

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Registered: Aug 2007
Location: SE Iowa
Posts: 950

I have yet to see a coonhound that I thought was so flawless that I would consider doing this. Not against the idea, just have never seen one specimen that was worthy.

My guess is even if you had that specimen, and made a cross like that you would probably get one or two keepers and a handful that had some real issues since you are doubling down on bad faults and traits as well. Seen or unseen.

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Registered: Jan 2004
Location: Northwest Georgia
Posts: 1621

What i find in doing this is a couple may not make it to the grade i want, but that is normal in any litter, and there traits are very close to the original grandam which i love.
and they are passing those same traits to outcrosses
If you start with good healthy stock it usually takes a long time to start seeing anything negative,(years) and then it is generally just a slow down in reproduction or a smaller size.
I doubt i will ever go back to just outcrossing and getting the box of chocolates.
Instead of getting dogs i might like, i am getting hounds i know i like.

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Striving to breed balanced Treeing Walkers.

"Life is short boys, Hunt an intelligent hound"

Born in sin, convicted by the Word, saved by Grace.

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Registered: Jul 2003
Location: Wooster, OH
Posts: 1673

JUST MY OPINION

I have tried it all. When I tried the crosses like you are speaking of, I always got a couple of REALLY nice dogs in a litter, several that were common, and a few that were idiots and needed culling.

Sad part is, I never kept one of the couple that made outstanding dogs and couldn't buy one of them. I always ended up with a candidate for culling.

I'm not saying they can't be a little bit kin, but winding it up too tight never worked for me. Others will tell you different.

Someone started the myth that you have to have close line breeding to have top shelf dogs. This is far from the truth.

Good luck with whatever you decide to do.

You need to read UKC's definition of inbreeding. The crosses you listed are in fact inbreeding and it will be stamped INBRED on their papers. You can cross half mates, uncle x neice, grandfather x granddaughter and that isn't considered inbreeding, but linebreeding.

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Registered: Oct 2003
Location: soddy daisy,tennessee
Posts: 448

thanks ritchie, in the mt cur world ive seen it done in a good way and ive seen it taken to far for my liking. i am one that likes to try and consolidate all the good i can in one package but just looking at other peoples opinions. cant seem to find the right bluetick female that suits me so always trying to build one. thanks again for you input. always liked the dogs you follow. take care.

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Registered: Aug 2014
Location:
Posts: 780

The ONLY way to keep what you got is line breeding with some inbreeding mixed in. Check out some peds of big game studs, you will find a lot of similar reg. numbers. Big game dogs don't get fed if they are not catchin game.

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Registered: Mar 2015
Location: Mi.
Posts: 1930

quote:

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Originally posted by khester7923
Posing this questions for any and everybody to throw their two cents in on.
1. WHAT IS UKC'S POSITION ON HEAVY, TIGHT, LINEBREEDING?
2. WILL THEY REGISTER THE LITTER?
3. WHAT IS EVERYBODY'S OPINION ON SELECTIVE TIGHT LINEBREEDING.

iM TALKING ABOUT FATHER/DAUGHTER...MOTHER/SON.....FULL BROTHER/SISTER CROSSES. IF YOU HAVE A MALE WITH WHAT YOU CONSIDER THE TOTAL PACKAGE AND YOU HAVE HIS DAUGHTER AND ALSO THINK SHE IS THE TOTAL PACKAGE, HAS ANYONE EVER CROSSED THE TWO FOR A 3/4 LITTER. MY OPINION IS, ITS LIKE A SACK OF POTATOES. YOUR ONLY GONNA DUMP OUT WHATS ALREADY IN THERE WHETHER GOOD, BAD OR BETTER. WHAT YALL THINK? REMEMBER IM TALKING ABOUT SELECTIVE NOW, NOT JUST CROSSING TO PUT PUPS OUT, BUT TO TRY AND BETTER WHAT EVER YOUR HUNTING..

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Registered: Mar 2009
Location: OKLA
Posts: 1132

I think what a lot of people forget is we're not getting the dogs in a cross, we will get what ever traits those dogs throw. Before I would even consider such a tight cross I would want to know what traits those dogs put in their pups. Just because you have the same ancestor several times in a three generation pedigree those pups might not resemble that ancestor in any way. There is nothing less fun than hauling pups and having to cull them for some genetic flaw that could have been avoided with some research.

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Registered: Mar 2015
Location: Mi.
Posts: 1930

quote:

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Originally posted by pigsit
I think what a lot of people forget is we're not getting the dogs in a cross, we will get what ever traits those dogs throw. Before I would even consider such a tight cross I would want to know what traits those dogs put in their pups. Just because you have the same ancestor several times in a three generation pedigree those pups might not resemble that ancestor in any way. There is nothing less fun than hauling pups and having to cull them for some genetic flaw that could have been avoided with some research.

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Grnitech Pkc ch Skuna River Midnite Moe
{Skuna River Bark x Trackman's Sassy}

Nitech Stylish Clover Shark Jill - RIP 'Ole Girl
{Great White Shark x Brush Creek Patch}

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Registered: Sep 2009
Location: Monticello, Wi
Posts: 744

quote:

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Originally posted by khester7923
Posing this questions for any and everybody to throw their two cents in on.
1. WHAT IS UKC'S POSITION ON HEAVY, TIGHT, LINEBREEDING?
2. WILL THEY REGISTER THE LITTER?
3. WHAT IS EVERYBODY'S OPINION ON SELECTIVE TIGHT LINEBREEDING.

iM TALKING ABOUT FATHER/DAUGHTER...MOTHER/SON.....FULL BROTHER/SISTER CROSSES. IF YOU HAVE A MALE WITH WHAT YOU CONSIDER THE TOTAL PACKAGE AND YOU HAVE HIS DAUGHTER AND ALSO THINK SHE IS THE TOTAL PACKAGE, HAS ANYONE EVER CROSSED THE TWO FOR A 3/4 LITTER. MY OPINION IS, ITS LIKE A SACK OF POTATOES. YOUR ONLY GONNA DUMP OUT WHATS ALREADY IN THERE WHETHER GOOD, BAD OR BETTER. WHAT YALL THINK? REMEMBER IM TALKING ABOUT SELECTIVE NOW, NOT JUST CROSSING TO PUT PUPS OUT, BUT TO TRY AND BETTER WHAT EVER YOUR HUNTING..

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Registered: Jan 2017
Location:
Posts: 173

It's the only way to improve on brains,track speed,how they use there nose.with the right stuff it makes hard core hounds it should be all about performance right?there more than most can handle,no matter how close your related ,there not usally that close,even your own sister or brother,you don't always have the same blood type,hair,skin,ect,it has to be as fault free as possible but it's the only way to create a real strain then keep what you have every time you out cross you take the chance of letting diabetes,hips ,feet,traits etc it takes a lot of doing 20to30years.it's how you make a line or your just breeding dogs hopeing to come up with something great,which can happen but you breed the right stuff your line will through soldier's that are performers.been there and done it more than once .dogs are disappointing when you've had them....

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Registered: Dec 2011
Location:
Posts: 805

Half sister to half brother, UKC might not stamp it inbred but it is. Line breeding is also inbreeding......

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Registered: Apr 2014
Location: batsville ark
Posts: 1110

quote:

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Originally posted by Jason Baldwin
I have seen outstanding success with Half brother / half sister crosses.

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Registered: Dec 2011
Location:
Posts: 805

Ya, but BlackWater Pearl I think beat them all with 75% in UKCs reproduction list and she was out of Wipeout Zeb a good bred Wipeout Hound, Had Bozo in her but NOT the Dixie cross. When they bred that daughter of Old River Bend Flag in that Bozo Blood is what started it all. Most of Pearl's pups were hunted in PKC to boot! This was about the time the Wipeout hounds started dominating the UKC hunts. A little bit of infomation that goes back about 20 years.... LOL!

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Registered: Dec 2011
Location:
Posts: 805

In other words GO WITH THE BEST AND FORGET THE REST! Best reproducers that is! LOL

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Registered: Apr 2014
Location: batsville ark
Posts: 1110

quote:

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Originally posted by edwardfasteddy
Ya, but BlackWater Pearl I think beat them all with 75% in UKCs reproduction list and she was out of Wipeout Zeb a good bred Wipeout Hound, Had Bozo in her but NOT the Dixie cross. When they bred that daughter of Old River Bend Flag in that Bozo Blood is what started it all. Most of Pearl's pups were hunted in PKC to boot! This was about the time the Wipeout hounds started dominating the UKC hunts. A little bit of infomation that goes back about 20 years.... LOL!

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Registered: Dec 2011
Location:
Posts: 805

I can answer any and all questions on line breeding or inbreeding because I have the experience, 45 years to be exact..LOL A lot of the Big Shots brought their dogs here for me to start.... Example: I just was at a guys house today that had a Hall Of Fame Plaque that he received for his female that I started and put most of the wins on. I hunted that female in about 15 states in all. Has anyone on here ever had there hands on four Hall Of Fame dogs or any as far as that goes? LOL!

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Registered: Dec 2011
Location:
Posts: 805

UKC GR. Nite Champions not that big of a deal. Hall of Fame,World Champions, Grand America Winners, another story. Anyone on here know anything about dogs? LOL

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Registered: Aug 2004
Location: Chattanooga, Tn
Posts: 22462

Mr Hester is talking/asking about inbreeding. I myself wouldn't do that. But in my opinion linebreeding only works if you have a family of very nice balanced hounds to work with. You have to know exactly what you are dealing with in these hounds. Just getting any half brother and sister and breeding them together doesn't usually work. But if you really want to know, you need to ask Mr Eddy. He has far more experience than I do. Actually I don't even know what a Hall of Fame Plaque is.

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Registered: Dec 2011
Location:
Posts: 805

Heavy Linebreeding

Posing this questions for any and everybody to throw their two cents in on.
1. WHAT IS UKC'S POSITION ON HEAVY, TIGHT, LINEBREEDING?
2. WILL THEY REGISTER THE LITTER?
3. WHAT IS EVERYBODY'S OPINION ON SELECTIVE TIGHT LINEBREEDING.

iM TALKING ABOUT FATHER/DAUGHTER...MOTHER/SON.....FULL BROTHER/SISTER CROSSES. IF YOU HAVE A MALE WITH WHAT YOU CONSIDER THE TOTAL PACKAGE AND YOU HAVE HIS DAUGHTER AND ALSO THINK SHE IS THE TOTAL PACKAGE, HAS ANYONE EVER CROSSED THE TWO FOR A 3/4 LITTER. MY OPINION IS, ITS LIKE A SACK OF POTATOES. YOUR ONLY GONNA DUMP OUT WHATS ALREADY IN THERE WHETHER GOOD, BAD OR BETTER. WHAT YALL THINK? REMEMBER IM TALKING ABOUT SELECTIVE NOW, NOT JUST CROSSING TO PUT PUPS OUT, BUT TO TRY AND BETTER WHAT EVER YOUR HUNTING..

You don't line breed or inbreed to better what is no good to start with. to answer the last sentence...

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Registered: Jan 2018
Location: South Carolina
Posts: 47

I have been researching inbreeding, line breeding heavily for the last several months. First of all, it's nothing new... It's been used for years, I mean like the last century... To keep this very short, yes, UKC will register the crosses, yes it can increase your chances on passing the traits you desire if done carefully, correctly.

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