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yadkintar
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Registered: Jan 2013
Location: Marietta
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Here is anouther variable dog gets struck and is struggling with a track and shuts up next time you hear him he is a 800 yards deeper and rolling hot goes about 300 yards and trees and has the coon. The guy says boy my dog did a good job on that coon I said which one the first or second one ? I hurt his feelers lol.


So what percent would y’all give that dog ?


Tar

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Old Post 01-17-2020 08:33 PM
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Dave Richards
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Vic Stoll

I have found out that the really accurate coon dogs tree very few dens as opposed to digs that miss a lot. Now I accept the fact that you are going to tree some dens, but not a lot. We tree very few dens and actually find over half the coons that tree in a den. You will see that a accurate dog does not tree a bunch of dens, a lot of dens are just slick trees especially this time of year where rutting coons check dens and move on looking for mates. I do not buy the only tree dens this time of year, not with an accurate dog. Dave

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Richard Edinger
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I think some on here are misinterpreting my comments. I do not and will not put up with a slick treeing dog
On a good night when cppn are down and moving there's no reason to be missing. It's on the nights that the cards are all stacked against you he has to gamble to pull the proverbial rabbit out of the hat that other dogs don't know exist . The difference is a coondog or coontreer

A MVP runningback doesn't have positive yardage everytime
He will have runs of no gain, loss, and even fumbles, but he's always shooting for the endzone.end zone.

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Old Post 01-17-2020 09:06 PM
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Dave Richards
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Richard

I get your point, but here's my take on accuracy, a real accurate dog that knows when the coon is there at least what I have witnessed. Example, the most accurate dog I have even owned or hunted with would not even pull s bark up a slick tree no matter how many digs were treeing or how hard they were treeing. She would go out trailing and tree the coon, she was a fast tree dog and you could tree her on her locate. I have seen other dogs locate, get down and circle the tree before coming back and treeing that still missed, she just did not miss. Accurate digs have both nose and brain power. We are hunting one now that will tree a coon here and when you shoot that coon will drop 100 yards and fall treed on another if it's there, he just knows where those coons are. All the truly accurate dogs I have hunted had uncanny ability to tree coons other dogs did not know existed and paid no attention to dogs treeing slick. Dave

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Sonny Phipps
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Re: Vic Stoll

quote:
Originally posted by Dave Richards
I have found out that the really accurate coon dogs tree very few dens as opposed to digs that miss a lot. Now I accept the fact that you are going to tree some dens, but not a lot. We tree very few dens and actually find over half the coons that tree in a den. You will see that a accurate dog does not tree a bunch of dens, a lot of dens are just slick trees especially this time of year where rutting coons check dens and move on looking for mates. I do not buy the only tree dens this time of year, not with an accurate dog. Dave



X2

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Old Post 01-17-2020 10:57 PM
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Trueblood85
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Registered: Nov 2016
Location: Bath, NC
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by yadkintar
[B]Here is anouther variable dog gets struck and is struggling with a track and shuts up next time you hear him he is a 800 yards deeper and rolling hot goes about 300 yards and trees and has the coon. The guy says boy my dog did a good job on that coon I said which one the first or second one ? I hurt his feelers lol.


So what percent would y’all give that dog ?


I'd say he may not be the best trail dog if he couldn't work it out but for me, if he can't figure it out I'm ok with him leaving the track to find one he can run. Not super proud of him but at least I'm not a mile in the woods staring at empty limbs. I'd have to claim he's smart enough to know he's not great haha but at least he's honest

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Old Post 01-17-2020 11:03 PM
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Richard Edinger
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Registered: Mar 2009
Location: Oklahoma
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Dave, I also have owned and seen that kind of dog. That's what I call brains and independence to think for their self
Willing to go the extra distance to try to be right he gambled that he was right that takes a dog with extra

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Old Post 01-17-2020 11:32 PM
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shadinc
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Registered: Jun 2014
Location: Louisiana
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Mr Edinger

quote:
Originally posted by Richard Edinger
Your scenario has a track going away from the tree mine did not.
Yes yours does. Your dog just didn't know it.

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Old Post 01-17-2020 11:34 PM
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Richard Edinger
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Dave,
I think we like the same type of dog just look at it at different angles.

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Old Post 01-17-2020 11:36 PM
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Richard Edinger
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Location: Oklahoma
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Mr Edinger

quote:
Originally posted by shadinc
Yes yours does. Your dog just didn't know it.

New year's eve I had a dog leave a tree with a coon in it to tree the second .. He not eating my feed anymore.

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Old Post 01-17-2020 11:42 PM
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Dave Richards
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Registered: Apr 2015
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Richard

You are correct, we both love a real coon dog. Dave

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Old Post 01-18-2020 12:38 AM
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pamjohnson
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Registered: Feb 2012
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Re: Richard

quote:
Originally posted by Dave Richards
I get your point, but here's my take on accuracy, a real accurate dog that knows when the coon is there at least what I have witnessed. Example, the most accurate dog I have even owned or hunted with would not even pull s bark up a slick tree no matter how many digs were treeing or how hard they were treeing. She would go out trailing and tree the coon, she was a fast tree dog and you could tree her on her locate. I have seen other dogs locate, get down and circle the tree before coming back and treeing that still missed, she just did not miss. Accurate digs have both nose and brain power. We are hunting one now that will tree a coon here and when you shoot that coon will drop 100 yards and fall treed on another if it's there, he just knows where those coons are. All the truly accurate dogs I have hunted had uncanny ability to tree coons other dogs did not know existed and paid no attention to dogs treeing slick. Dave
interesting statement you made. The most accurate dog you ever owned wouldn't make a bark on a slick and you could tree her on her locate. I to have seen this with the best dog I ever hunted with.
The worst slick treeing dogs I have seen locate on way to many tree's.

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Old Post 01-18-2020 02:18 AM
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pamjohnson
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Re: Vic Stoll

quote:
Originally posted by Dave Richards
I have found out that the really accurate coon dogs tree very few dens as opposed to digs that miss a lot. Now I accept the fact that you are going to tree some dens, but not a lot. We tree very few dens and actually find over half the coons that tree in a den. You will see that a accurate dog does not tree a bunch of dens, a lot of dens are just slick trees especially this time of year where rutting coons check dens and move on looking for mates. I do not buy the only tree dens this time of year, not with an accurate dog. Dave
just my opinion but a dog that trees a lot of dens are treeing squirrels.

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Old Post 01-18-2020 02:21 AM
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Dave Richards
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Pamjohnson

I tend to agree regarding dens, maybe not squirrel all the time, but certainly some if the time. It's the rutting coons that mess a lot of scent driven dogs to tree a lot of dens. I believe the real accurate dogs with brains just won't pull up on light scent, they kind of know when it's there or not. Even some dogs that know better will back a slick treeing dog sort of like a bird dog backing another dogs point. Now the really accurate dog will not tree with old slick, but go on and tree the correct tree with the coon. Accuracy is born not man made in a dog, now you can correct old slick and put him to looking for where the coon went and he may tree the coon right, but will never be a real accurate dog on his own. A naturally accurate dog does not need help in locating the correct tree. Man can help, but never really make those truly accurate dogs, it's just natural. Dave

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Vic Stoll
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Re: Pamjohnson

quote:
Originally posted by Dave Richards
I tend to agree regarding dens, maybe not squirrel all the time, but certainly some if the time. It's the rutting coons that mess a lot of scent driven dogs to tree a lot of dens. I believe the real accurate dogs with brains just won't pull up on light scent, they kind of know when it's there or not. Even some dogs that know better will back a slick treeing dog sort of like a bird dog backing another dogs point. Now the really accurate dog will not tree with old slick, but go on and tree the correct tree with the coon. Accuracy is born not man made in a dog, now you can correct old slick and put him to looking for where the coon went and he may tree the coon right, but will never be a real accurate dog on his own. A naturally accurate dog does not need help in locating the correct tree. Man can help, but never really make those truly accurate dogs, it's just natural. Dave


Dave, you never answered my question, what is an acceptable percentage of den trees?

I’ve come to find I must be bad luck. I’ve hunted with dogs over the years that are said to be 90% plus accurate, only to watch them make slicks or dens as well as tree coon. I guess they have coon on the outside a lot more if I’m not hunting with them to maintain that 90%?

I’ve not been at it as long as some, only since 1979. Sure doesn’t make me any kind of expert, but I’ve yet to see any 90% accurate dog using coon seen/coon not seen percentages. Folks counting dens as a coon seen pretty much discounts any accuracy claims I hear.

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Redneck Mafia
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Cheyenne remembers the days of toting an axe to get coons out of those dens back when hides were high. No one went to chopping thinking it may be in there or maybe not.
As Dalton stated there are dogs that may have a coon and dogs that have coons - the latter may miss occasionally but even in dens will be just as likely to have them as a tree you can shine.

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Dave Richards
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Vic Stoll

I will give you my take on den trees, based on what I have experienced with 4 dogs that I called a COON DOG. Maybe 2 to 3 dens in a month of hunting 5 to six nights a week, rarely treeing a den tree. The more ACCURATE the dog the less dens you will tree. When other local hunters are complaining about all the dens they are treeing and my hunting partner and myself are treeing few dens, hunting in the same weather conditions and same hunting areas, treeing coons on the outside every night, I know it's the dogs accuracy that makes the difference. If you are making a lot of dens every night, you need to look at what's on the end of your chain. I used to hear from other hunters in my area that would tell me how lucky I was treeing coons every night, I told them Luck has nothing to do with it, it's dog power. By the way, we were taking the coons we caught to another local hunter as he was skinning the coons, so he kept all of the hunters aware of how many coons we were catching on nights they were not getting a coon. I can feed a good dog as cheap as a plug. Lol. Dave

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yadkintar
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Boy we better hope all you 90% accurate boys don’t show up at the tournament of champions. Us ametures won’t stand a chance.



To poor to buy one to big a dummy to train one !!!


Tar

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Old Post 01-18-2020 12:45 PM
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novicane65
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quote:
Originally posted by yadkintar
Boy we better hope all you 90% accurate boys don’t show up at the tournament of champions. Us ametures won’t stand a chance.



To poor to buy one to big a dummy to train one !!!


Tar



I might be there. But I don't think I have a dog that fits in that 90% category.

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yadkintar
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quote:
Originally posted by novicane65
I might be there. But I don't think I have a dog that fits in that 90% category.



I seen some pretty gooderns go seen um have a good night even a good week but no dog is that way every night for their whole life. Especially here in this mess I hunt in. Now them little 5 acre patches or a hot nosed pop up dog might have a better average but an open trailing take their coons as they come to them dog is going to have bad nights. But if you hunt alone or just with one buddy it’s your story to tell lol.


Tar

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Old Post 01-18-2020 01:38 PM
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sleepy head
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quote:
Originally posted by yadkintar
Boy we better hope all you 90% accurate boys don’t show up at the tournament of champions. Us ametures won’t stand a chance.



To poor to buy one to big a dummy to train one !!!


Tar



Hopefully it'll be held early enough to beat the leaves and accuracy will be more important

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Vic Stoll
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Re: Vic Stoll

quote:
Originally posted by Dave Richards
I will give you my take on den trees, based on what I have experienced with 4 dogs that I called a COON DOG. Maybe 2 to 3 dens in a month of hunting 5 to six nights a week, rarely treeing a den tree. The more ACCURATE the dog the less dens you will tree. When other local hunters are complaining about all the dens they are treeing and my hunting partner and myself are treeing few dens, hunting in the same weather conditions and same hunting areas, treeing coons on the outside every night, I know it's the dogs accuracy that makes the difference. If you are making a lot of dens every night, you need to look at what's on the end of your chain. I used to hear from other hunters in my area that would tell me how lucky I was treeing coons every night, I told them Luck has nothing to do with it, it's dog power. By the way, we were taking the coons we caught to another local hunter as he was skinning the coons, so he kept all of the hunters aware of how many coons we were catching on nights they were not getting a coon. I can feed a good dog as cheap as a plug. Lol. Dave


Dave, you still never answered my question, what is an acceptable percentage of den trees?

I guess I’ll take a stab at it myself from your last post?

5 nights a week, two trees per night in those thin coon mountains. That’s 40 trees per month, 3 of them being dens. That would be 7.5% dens.

As far as the rest of your post, you’re preaching to the choir. I’ve been fortunate enough to have been able to hunt with a few on a regular basis over the years that were what I considered freaks. Nights when the common dogs were struggling they just seemed to have another good night. Even those dogs den tree percentage would go up some from that mid-late December to when the rut kicked in time frame. Although I never kept track, I would guess their annual den tree percentage was in the 10-15% range.

Years back I used to do some friendly bantering back and forth on accuracy percentage with a gent from Oklahoma named Tom Jones. As a result of those many conversations, we came to the conclusion.that geographical area may be a factor in determining accuracy percentages relative to den trees.

One thing is for sure, the “accuracy” horse will never be whittled down to small enough pieces ..... always good for conversation

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Old Post 01-18-2020 04:31 PM
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Dave Richards
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Vic Stoll

Lol. My percentage of dens that's acceptable would definitely be less than 10 percent over the entire season, more like 5 percent. I know from experience that the better the dog, the less dens you will tree. Now your comment about different parts of the country having more issues with dens may be spot on. I don't think there is any way we can fairly judge dogs hunting in extreme conditions with the same measuring stick. What's fair is comparing the results produced in your area against the dogs hunting in the same area every night. My thoughts are that you already know these things, there just isn't a one fits all formula for the entire country on what's acceptable for everyone. If my buddies hunt 6 nights this week and tree 29 coons on the outside and only 1 den tree, my dogs hunting the same 6 nights better not tree 6 coons and 20 den trees. Lol. Dave. P.s. I think you would be fun to hunt with.

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shadinc
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I think I have a different opinion on how a dog locates a tree than most people. Most think a dog smells where he went up and can't find a track leaving, so the coon is there. I don't think that. I think dogs tree on body scent. They smell the coon in the tree and know he's there. Now comes the problem. If a coon sleeps in a tree all day there's going to be plenty residual scent there. Just like if he's been eating acorns for a couple of hours. The same with den trees. The accurate dogs know the difference in body scent and residual scent.

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Dave Richards
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Donald Bergeron

I agree, the accurate dogs know the difference, the better nose with brains is what separates the truly great dogs from the run if the mill. Dave

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