Registered: Sep 2004
Location: Brookville, PA
Posts: 2460

some interesting discussion here.

Rob summed it up, there are some really nice all grand and there are some real garbage ones. Some of my all time favorites are all-grand. But I've seen a bunch of duds too. The ones that get retired after making grand or becoming 'too valuable' to hunt is a huge red flag.

I also agree with Tar that there are some characteristics that I've seen in a number that I don't care for.

We jumped on the all-grand bandwagon a number of years ago when it was becoming a big deal. We learned pretty quickly to look past looking for all-grand studs. We got tired of walking to empty trees pretty quick. Went back to looking at coondogs producing coondogs more.

Bruce said it nicely, "I have developed a favoritism for certain bloodlines that I think work well in my area".

I like Travis approach at looking at numbers. But that's dogs that are UKC titled. Current is looking at a whopping 13.7% for males but 42% for females. (#1 Girl at 42% and #5 Quicky at 33%, both are 3 gen all grand) But both got there by being bred to dogs that are on top list but not all grand, Bone and Jiggs. Think all Bone and Jiggs pups alive were titled and made pretty decent hounds

looking at numbers is a tool. UKC #'s, reproducers, PP, and $KC earnings and pup earnings. There are a number of things to consider when looking at breeding. and all-grand is way down the list for me.

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quote:

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Originally posted by thomasg
3 things you must have for your all grand pup.1 a bark collar to keep you sanity.2 a good vet on call to treat thyroid problems .3 a keen switch in your hand at 5 out of ten trees made when the leaves fall off the trees to send them on with. .lol

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Registered: Sep 2010
Location: New Paris, Indiana
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quote:

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Originally posted by Redneck Mafia
Nice how you just lump all dogs together. Ours have never had to wear a bark collar, if they have a thyriod issue it hasn't showed up yet or any other major health issue and slick trees have never been an issue.
I believe with your animosity toward Walkers after loosing your hounds you have a very sour taste and may need to switch to hunting small mixed breed curs.

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Registered: Jun 2005
Location: North of Panama City Florida
Posts: 1014

just my two cents... i'm no big time pro comp hunter by any means...

to me, all grand pedigrees are to be taken with a grain of salt. at a glance it shows the bloodline of the dog is more apt to competition hunting, and has won doing so. seeing as how that could mean a multitude of hunting styles that range from babbling slick treeing morons to million dollar classy coondogs i think you would be better off researching the bloodlines of the dogs and what they pass on rather than solely going off "all grand" on the pedigree.

i would think in a perfect world, it would give you a better chance of a competition type dog- which may be a down right coondog in any company and you just sit back and let him work.... or it may mean you have to pull some slick handling to make him live up to his papers. i think that depends on the luck of the draw, the reproducing ability and what traits are carried in the bloodlines themselves.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Redneck Mafia
Nice how you just lump all dogs together. Ours have never had to wear a bark collar, if they have a thyriod issue it hasn't showed up yet or any other major health issue and slick trees have never been an issue.
I believe with your animosity toward Walkers after loosing your hounds you have a very sour taste and may need to switch to hunting small mixed breed curs.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Redneck Mafia
Nice how you just lump all dogs together. Ours have never had to wear a bark collar, if they have a thyriod issue it hasn't showed up yet or any other major health issue and slick trees have never been an issue.
I believe with your animosity toward Walkers after loosing your hounds you have a very sour taste and may need to switch to hunting small mixed breed curs.

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Except for the one you bred to, right?

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AKC/UKC NtCh Sizemore's Timber Jam Jeff 5/2/2000 to 1/22/2012 R.I.P.
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Registered: Aug 2013
Location: Seneca, Mo
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quote:

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Originally posted by JiM
Except for the one you bred to, right?

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Location: Jackson, MO
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quote:

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Originally posted by Redneck Mafia
Redneck Mafia, all grand pedigree was UKC #1 reproducer when we quit breeding him @ just over 20% on the reproducer list and multiple years a SS reproducer. Total pups only 138 so he will never make the historical list, just over 100 being permanently registered. I know of several that died before being pemanently registered, several others that died of accidents that had wins and some that had a couple of wins and were bought by pleasure hunters and never finished.
Mafia at my last count had 13 GRNITECH and 25 NITECH, a total of 38 titled dogs for a UKC reproducers percentage of 27.34%. There are many like him that will never make a historical list under current standards.

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quote:

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Originally posted by JiM
Except for the one you bred to, right?

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Last edited by thomasg on 08-09-2018 at 01:35 PM

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Thomas now you have me stumped. Not sure if Tar is going to be over joy'ed because of Rattler or going negative on you because of Lipper. Guess, I will just have to wait and see how this plays out. LOL

Guess, I am getting like Richard. I am forgetting about the dogs and fixated on what Tar will think.
Richard, I think Tar has us under his control. He may not do any more free Master of Hounds work but he is moving into mind games. Think we fooled him for once. If he is testing out his work on us. He needs subjects with bigger minds.

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No Bruce I been doing what you you said although I have raised these dogs I got lipper and rattler about 5 times each bad habit once so in comes Harry way back there. The pup out of granny is out of a dog out of cold sweat and peppermint patty insane Cain on the bottom so you going to say whoa tar those are some of the dogs that throw traits you don't like !! The difference is I hunted with them and I watched the crosses on them that didn't have the bad traits that takes a long time and a lot of phone calls when training dogs for the public or hunting in the hunts I made a mental note what dogs were out of. Bottom line like you said you got to get a dog that works where you live here and I have said it before this stuff is so thick you have to have a track dog that will hunt out this stuff thouroly and be determined to finish what it starts shoot man hides haven't brought anything in over 20yrs any dog should be treeing 5 coons a cast but they ain't there are plenty of coons. Kinda like you get a good possum dog there are possums every 10 yrds you didn't know were they're lol.


No science to it just takes time that's why a lot of old men got top dogs they refuse to hunt chit.


Tar

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U guys ever think it maybe the handler not the dogs fault? Yeah remember the days back when certain lines ran all night , yes there were goodan bad. I’ll agre, there is to much tree in certain lines but if u hunt hard enough an correct at the right time u will find good in today’s dogs as well ! I’ve found generally the dog is smarter than it’s handler, not always but today’s dogs don’t require a love mat the tree but still u see guys liven an petted them up .

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quote:

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Originally posted by yadkintar
The pup out of granny is out of a dog out of cold sweat and peppermint patty

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See Donnie how a dog you trained in the past is a part of what I got today.



Tar

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Yes sir. And you and I both know Moons mother was out of Lipper lol. But I'll admit she carried more traits from Rattler then she did Lipper. As I remember Jay said he lived 30 miles from Delton. Sillsbee, Texas. I've also sent three dogs to a fella in Beaumont over the years. Texas has been good to me lol.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Donnie Stevens
I raised Patty's mother Maple Slough Moonshine. She was the one direct Rattler pup I told you I had tried. I had two pups out of the same litter shipped up here from Texas in 93. My buddy's didn't turn out but Moon was a nice young dog when I sold her back to Jay in 95. I needed a down payment on my first house lol. I think she shows up in the pedigree of Cheys Mafia dog as well. To this day Moon had one of if not the best locates I've ever heard hit a tree. Tight right and fast.

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Guys that missing peice of the puzzle was right where I said it was all the time amazing ain't it.



Tar

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quote:

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Originally posted by yadkintar
[B m] ..... right where I said it was all the time....Tar [/B]

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See, I told y'all that Tarbaby was always right.

If you knew where it was all of the time then it wasn't missing was it?

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Location: New Paris, Indiana
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quote:

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Originally posted by yadkintar
Guys that missing peice of the puzzle was right where I said it was all the time amazing ain't it.



Tar

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AKC/UKC NtCh Sizemore's Timber Jam Jeff 5/2/2000 to 1/22/2012 R.I.P.
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quote:

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Originally posted by yadkintar
Guys that missing peice of the puzzle was right where I said it was all the time amazing ain't it.



Tar

---

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quote:

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Originally posted by JiM
What's amazing is that you haven't broke your arm patting yourself on the back.

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quote:

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Originally posted by andycanada
U guys ever think it maybe the handler not the dogs fault? Yeah remember the days back when certain lines ran all night , yes there were goodan bad. I’ll agre, there is to much tree in certain lines but if u hunt hard enough an correct at the right time u will find good in today’s dogs as well ! I’ve found generally the dog is smarter than it’s handler, not always but today’s dogs don’t require a love mat the tree but still u see guys liven an petted them up .

---

Last edited by thomasg on 08-27-2018 at 01:53 PM

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Doesn't World Champion Willie have at least a 3 gen all grand pedigree?

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IVE GOT AN ALL GRAND MALE THATS 12 1/2 YEARS OLD THAT WOULD PUT IT ON YOU ANY GIVEN NIGHT. I REMEMBER THE CRITICISM I TOOK FROM HIM BEING ALL GRAND AND OUT OF 2 "UKC" WORLD CHAMPIONS UNTIL I STARTED PUTTING HIM OUT THERE AND ALL THAT SHUT UP QUICK WHEN I STARTED TAKING THEIR MONEY WITH 2 EYES LOOKING DOWN.

INSANE "X" ~ YOU SHOULD HAVE SEEN HIM IN COLOR

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