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Tbaker
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jun 2003
Location: SW Michigan-again
Posts: 2311

Hunt rule question-Camera

I'm sure this has been addressed already, however, I must have missed it.

All dogs treed, cast arrived-small hole at bottom of tree-you cannot see up in there, handler of dog "A" slides his camera in the hole and takes a picture. litter of coon plainly seen in picture.

How do you score? By the rules can you score this + ?
100 people will say " I would" what do UKC rules say?

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05-22-2014 01:02 PM

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Paul Frederick
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Registered: Nov 2012
Location: Laurel, IN
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Todd, it's just like a mirror. You can't use it to score the tree either way. You have to actually physically see the coon.

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05-22-2014 01:17 PM

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Tim Toler
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Registered: Dec 2011
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quote:
Originally posted by Paul Frederick
Todd, it's just like a mirror. You can't use it to score the tree either way. You have to actually physically see the coon.

That is sort of crazy... take a picture see a whole litter of coons... can't use that but we can use the technology of the Garmin to guide in the direction to walk so that we can hear, call and score our dog... hmmmmm thought we were embracing technology now??

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Last edited by Tim Toler on 05-22-2014 at 02:21 PM

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05-22-2014 01:36 PM

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Paul Frederick
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Registered: Nov 2012
Location: Laurel, IN
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1. Who's to say that picture was taken tonight and not a week ago? I know it's far-fetched but it's a possibility. I'm sure my phone time-stamps each photo but I'm checking it out now and I can't figure out where or how to check it. I shouldn't be expected to know how to check the time-stamp on every different brand of cell phone's pictures to ensure the picture is correct.

2. When scoring trees it has always been UKC's policy that you can use three things: a light, a mechanical coon squaller (notice mechanical), and your eyes. You can use a laser pointer to point out something since technically it is a light, just a very bright, very concentrated one. This means no binoculars, no mirrors, no cell phone pictures of what you claim is the inside of this tree, etc. It's been a policy as long as I've hunted UKC hunts. You can read more about it on pg. 107 of The Advisor in the article "No Smoke, No Mirrors".

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05-22-2014 01:47 PM

Tim Toler
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and as of just a few months ago Garmins wasn't allowed to be carried either... and everyone was saying that we should be allowed to use the "Technology" available.. and so here we are now... as far as the picture being taking that night or not... if every one is standing there when I stuck my phone in the whole (would have to be using the flash since it would be dark so that you could see what is in the picture) and everyone sees the flash go off I would think that we would realize that the picture was just taken.

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05-22-2014 01:52 PM

Tim Toler
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Registered: Dec 2011
Location: Winfield WV
Posts: 507

sitting here thinking about technology... now that we can use the garmins and look at them for the whole hunt and so forth... Powers to be should now also consider allowing us to use the apps for hunt timers also...

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05-22-2014 02:19 PM

Paul Frederick
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Registered: Nov 2012
Location: Laurel, IN
Posts: 1478

quote:
Originally posted by Tim Toler
sitting here thinking about technology... now that we can use the garmins and look at them for the whole hunt and so forth... Powers to be should now also consider allowing us to use the apps for hunt timers also...

You have been able to since January 1, 2014. No one much talks about it because the Telemetry Rule gets all the attention, but it was changed in the most recent rulebook. I think there has been only one thread about it since the policy was changed.

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05-22-2014 02:47 PM

Tim Toler
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Posts: 507

Yes guess you are correct about the topic.. wasn't really aware of that... Thanks for the information...

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05-22-2014 02:58 PM

Bengie Bengala
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You can use it now

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Allen / UKC
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Registered: Nov 2004
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Re: Garmins

quote:
Originally posted by prostockpat
Was told only judge will be carrying a Garmin on casts in the near future {1-2yrs}.Which I feel will be more of a issue;I know I can zoom in on my dog treed and my Garmin will show my dog is moving.Even tho its not!!!

Probably a good idea to nip this one in the butt before it gets too far out of context. For the record, UKC is not involved with working towards any such thing.

Of course there's been talk of such possibilities but that comes from general discussions regarding all the technology available these days. Before you know it, general discussion turns into "it's happening next year"! lol. Probably a stretch.

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prostockpat
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nice

Thanks

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05-22-2014 03:40 PM

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buck brush
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Registered: Mar 2008
Location: LaPorte IN
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Re: Re: Garmins

quote:
Originally posted by Allen / UKC
Probably a good idea to nip this one in the butt before it gets too far out of context. For the record, UKC is not involved with working towards any such thing.

Of course there's been talk of such possibilities but that comes from general discussions regarding all the technology available these days. Before you know it, general discussion turns into "it's happening next year"! lol. Probably a stretch.

who knows what technology can bring us in a year or two, heck a car can park it's self and who would of thought two years ago we would be useing gps in hunts.

from what my CI tells me it is not that far off the technology will be there, the ?? is will we use it.

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05-22-2014 03:57 PM

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Allen / UKC
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It wouldn't surprise me a bit if something like that did become available at some point. You're right, corn rows a mile long are as straight as arrows and cars are parking themselves these days. Seems logical to think we should be able to hunt and judge dogs in the next ten years without even getting out of the truck! Probably won't even need a dog. Four handlers will sit alongside the woods with their handhelds seeing who can find the most coons in that woods. Dens, squirrel holes and leafy trees will no longer be questioned. Either they will be there or not! Landowners and hunters will be the ones earning degrees and titles! lol.

In all seriousness Skip, that's a question I can't answer.

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05-22-2014 04:23 PM

JTROTT
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Question!

If you can use a "Light" - Does that include an infrared light? A nite vision camera? A thermal imager? They use "Light" to detect what is in front of them!!!!!!!!!!

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05-22-2014 04:47 PM

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buck brush
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Allen i agree we just do not know.

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05-22-2014 04:59 PM

Paul Frederick
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Registered: Nov 2012
Location: Laurel, IN
Posts: 1478

Re: Question!

quote:
Originally posted by JTROTT
If you can use a "Light" - Does that include an infrared light? A nite vision camera? A thermal imager? They use "Light" to detect what is in front of them!!!!!!!!!!

They use light, they are not light. Kind of a difference there. UKC has already ruled you can't use any of the above.

On a side note, I always thought a thermal imager would be neat especially when hunting a young dog in the summertime. Then you could check accuracy a little easier. Still, it's not foolproof. Just because a big ball of heat is in the tree does not mean it's a coon. Could be a possum, bird, sasquatch, neighbor kid, etc.

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05-22-2014 05:01 PM

Tim Toler
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Registered: Dec 2011
Location: Winfield WV
Posts: 507

Starting to sound like the beer commercial about the guys playing golf and they just pull up and look at the hole and tell each other that it is a "give me" and count the hole as par... LOL..

Last edited by Tim Toler on 05-22-2014 at 07:22 PM

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05-22-2014 05:31 PM

Tbaker
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jun 2003
Location: SW Michigan-again
Posts: 2311

Phone app

I still believe UKC should come up with a scorecard app for smart phones, all clubs to have a computer. Cast comes in and downloads the score card. dogs are placed accordingly and scores and report get emailed to UKC. this would work for bench shows, water races-everything. Just think of the time, paper and such saved. look at all the trees saved by UKC.

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05-22-2014 06:09 PM

prostockpat
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Re: Re: Question!

quote:
Originally posted by Paul Frederick
They use light, they are not light. Kind of a difference there. UKC has already ruled you can't use any of the above.

On a side note, I always thought a thermal imager would be neat especially when hunting a young dog in the summertime. Then you could check accuracy a little easier. Still, it's not foolproof. Just because a big ball of heat is in the tree does not mean it's a coon. Could be a possum, bird, sasquatch, neighbor kid, etc.

I like it.At least you'd have the right area pin pointed to shine.Just the size and cost is what kills that idea...right now.

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05-22-2014 06:27 PM

Allen / UKC
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quote:
Originally posted by Tim Toler
Starting to said like the beer commercial about the guys playing golf and they just pull up and look at the hole and tell each other that it is a "give me" and count the hole as par... LOL..

I take personal offense to your criticism Tim. Gimme's and mulligans are huge when it comes to my accomplishments on the course.

Golfers are a lot like some handlers. They come up with all kinds of excuses when they get beat. Just last weekend I won a carry-over skin and I've not heard the end of it yet. Hey, we all agreed that everyone could use at least one mulligan on the front and the back nine. Sore losers!

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05-22-2014 07:28 PM

Tim Toler
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Location: Winfield WV
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Allen... with only playing a couple times a year now... the first rule we discuss on the first T Box is a mulligan per nine!!! oh and also winter rules... so you can bump your ball.. LOL.. So I totally understand where you are coming from, but like in everything what you agree to in the beginning of the match/hunt could come back to bite you in the end.. LOL

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05-22-2014 07:32 PM

nitehunter2004
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I spectated on a cast an seen a mulligan used to sill the win, he told the other much younger handlers he bought it a the club, well that part was true just not a coon club..

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05-22-2014 07:48 PM

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Allen / UKC
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quote:
Originally posted by Tim Toler
but like in everything what you agree to in the beginning of the match/hunt could come back to bite you in the end.. LOL

So far it's worked well and we've not had to deal with any clubhouse officials. I have yet to turn in a scorecard, win or lose. Quite frankly, I'd be embarrassed to even turn in a winning card. If it were a hunt my scores would be great!

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05-22-2014 09:21 PM

JTROTT
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Location: Sylacauga, Alabama
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Re: Re: Question!

quote:
Originally posted by Paul Frederick
They use light, they are not light. Kind of a difference there. UKC has already ruled you can't use any of the above.

On a side note, I always thought a thermal imager would be neat especially when hunting a young dog in the summertime. Then you could check accuracy a little easier. Still, it's not foolproof. Just because a big ball of heat is in the tree does not mean it's a coon. Could be a possum, bird, sasquatch, neighbor kid, etc.

Infrared light is light! A thermal imager uses infrared light! They are light emitting devices! They "Put Out" light from them!

A light gathering nite vision device gathers ambient light, so that is correct, it is not a lite and can't and should not be used.

But if it emits light from it, is it not a "Light"????

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05-22-2014 10:17 PM