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Reuben
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Nov 2011
Location: Freeport,TX
Posts: 1907

Mr. Lambert...you are making some excellent points...

I do not want my dog to cower or submit to another dog but at the same time I do not want my dog to start a fight...

If a dog comes in to the bay I expect my dog to stay focused on the game...but if that dog jumps on my dog I expect him to defend himself and then get back to baying...if he continues to fight until he totally dominates the other dog that will have to be ok...he then needs to get back to baying the game...I don’t think I can fault my dog for this behavior...

If the other dog got whipped by my dog and he decides to bay alongside my dog then I would be pleased with the way my dog handled it...

The rule needs to be well thought out and then enforced otherwise there will be many alligator dogs in the future and that will become the next hot topic...might as well nip it in the bud now...seems many folks only care about winning and not so much about breeding for correct temperament and other traits...

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Training dogs is not so much about quantity, it's more about timing, and the right situations...After that it's up to the dog....A hunting dog is born...

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2nd Mac
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jun 2013
Location:
Posts: 195

Everybody wants to make excuses for touchy dogs. Kinda like my experiences years ago in certain establishments. If you ain’t kinda looking for trouble or have a chip on your shoulder most of the time you can avoid trouble.

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walkerfan
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Registered: Jun 2018
Location:
Posts: 10

heard an old man say one , mine ain't mean just very unafraid.

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Dave Richards
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Apr 2015
Location: church hill tn
Posts: 5630

Mean dogs

I do not think that a dog fighting back to defend himself should be considered mean. How many men would stand and let some other man beat on Him without taking his part and fighting back? Does fighting back make you a mean man? I owned one of the most peaceful dogs any man could want, dogs could crawl all over him at a Tree or anywhere else without so much as a growl from him, hut if a dog jumped on him he would fight back, he definitely was not mean. Dave

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pamjohnson
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Registered: Feb 2012
Location: airville,pa
Posts: 2072

A dog doesn't have to defend its self if it won't fight. Now does that mean that it won't stay treed with a mean dog. Not at all. There are dogs that will stay treed with a mean dog and not have too use everyone's excuse of defending itself.
We don't always get the perfect dog so we try to make do with what we get.
If they get in a fight regardless of what happened do we need to make an excuse? If we do need to use excuses where do we stop using them?

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groworg1
UKC Forum Member

Registered: May 2008
Location: Gillett, Pa
Posts: 1876

when you do have one that is smart enough to stay treed off of the tree a bit staying out of trouble then along comes the minus for being off tree !

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Reuben
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Nov 2011
Location: Freeport,TX
Posts: 1907

quote:
Originally posted by pamjohnson
A dog doesn't have to defend its self if it won't fight. Now does that mean that it won't stay treed with a mean dog. Not at all. There are dogs that will stay treed with a mean dog and not have too use everyone's excuse of defending itself.
We don't always get the perfect dog so we try to make do with what we get.
If they get in a fight regardless of what happened do we need to make an excuse? If we do need to use excuses where do we stop using them?



There are excuses and there are reasons...we can cull a dog for defending itself but that would be foolish In my book...many dogs would be culled in looking for the perfect dog that dodged a mean dog but stays treed...chances are that dog that side steps a mean dog will side step a coon...

I like a dog to side step a couple times and then defend itself...there aren’t many dogs like that...

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Training dogs is not so much about quantity, it's more about timing, and the right situations...After that it's up to the dog....A hunting dog is born...

Last edited by Reuben on 06-05-2020 at 03:29 AM

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Dave Richards
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Registered: Apr 2015
Location: church hill tn
Posts: 5630

Rueben

Some folks just do not get it, they think any dog that fights back is mean, which is just not true. There are many different scenarios where a peaceful dog gets jumped on by a mean dog and in most cases WILL fight back, that does not make them mean. The only difference in dogs fighting and men fighting is that men can tell you who the aggressor was and dogs can not. If I absolutely know which dog is the aggressive one, I will not correct the innocent dog that fights back. I will not stand and let another man assault me without defending myself and I will not correct a dog for defending itself, I don't care who likes my choice. I can not stand a mean dog or a man that bullies other men. Dave

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pamjohnson
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Registered: Feb 2012
Location: airville,pa
Posts: 2072

Dave and Reuben ya both make valid points.
Reuben yes we settle for what style of dog we get and live with it. Most of us. Far to often if were not careful.
Dave I feel very much like you. I hate mean dog and bullies.
I like honesty not excuses. When we start excepting bad behavior and making excuses were on a slippery slope is all im saying. Settling if ya will. I know you hate to feel ya settled for less but if ya need an excuse you did just that.

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Ron Moore
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jan 2006
Location: WV
Posts: 821

Mean??

First off, 9 times out of 10 a person knows if they have a mean dog when they turn it loose with another dog. So in that case, the person is as guilty as the dog. It's come to people hunting anything to score a win, at any cost. Mean dogs come from people who don't care about other peoples dogs or their own. A lot of folks have good hounds that are mean and other than admitting their dog is mean they'd rather turn their dog loose to show off their coon treeing ability in stead of admitting they're mean. I've dealt with mean dogs and handlers my whole life, in competition and with pleasure hunters. It all starts with people who don't want to change their style by weeding out the mean dogs. There are plenty of good hounds out there that aren't mean. Until the people who own and hunt mean dogs changes, we will continue to see this problem.

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Old Post 06-05-2020 05:29 PM
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Dave Richards
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Registered: Apr 2015
Location: church hill tn
Posts: 5630

Ron Moore

You nailed it, most folks do and should know if their dog is mean or aggressive. I put the blame on the owner if they knowingly hunt a mean dog in a hunt or with someone else's dog. Dave

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Old Post 06-05-2020 06:13 PM
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Stan Ferrell
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Registered: Aug 2014
Location:
Posts: 780

quote:
Originally posted by yadkintar
Over 40 years I can count the mean dogs I seen on my fingers.



And they were rumblen when We got there because one of them wasent putting up with it lol.


Tar

Yup, you are one of those guys who will say" just walk slow, they will have it all worked out by the time we get there"

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100%hunter
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Registered: Aug 2014
Location:
Posts: 162

groworg1/ron more

you both are 100% right the last $$ hunt i was in my dog was split treed alone 4 min, 70 yards from another dog treed when we scored his tree he recast his dog directly at mine it jumped on mine he backed off the tree twenty feet and the judge minused him for not being on the tree.

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Old Post 06-06-2020 02:01 AM
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yadkintar
Banned

Registered: Jan 2013
Location: Marietta
Posts: 10790

quote:
Originally posted by Stan Ferrell
Yup, you are one of those guys who will say" just walk slow, they will have it all worked out by the time we get there"



Nope you got that one wrong I won’t hunt a babbler and I won’t hunt a mean dog.



Tar

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Reuben
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Nov 2011
Location: Freeport,TX
Posts: 1907

quote:
Originally posted by yadkintar
Nope you got that one wrong I won’t hunt a babbler and I won’t hunt a mean dog.



Tar



Same with me...

__________________
Training dogs is not so much about quantity, it's more about timing, and the right situations...After that it's up to the dog....A hunting dog is born...

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Old Post 06-06-2020 12:56 PM
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Kler Kry
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Sep 2009
Location: Monticello, Wi
Posts: 744

Re: Mean??

quote:
Originally posted by Ron Moore
First off, 9 times out of 10 a person knows if they have a mean dog when they turn it loose with another dog. So in that case, the person is as guilty as the dog. It's come to people hunting anything to score a win, at any cost. Mean dogs come from people who don't care about other peoples dogs or their own. A lot of folks have good hounds that are mean and other than admitting their dog is mean they'd rather turn their dog loose to show off their coon treeing ability in stead of admitting they're mean. I've dealt with mean dogs and handlers my whole life, in competition and with pleasure hunters. It all starts with people who don't want to change their style by weeding out the mean dogs. There are plenty of good hounds out there that aren't mean. Until the people who own and hunt mean dogs changes, we will continue to see this problem.


DENILE of the fact that your dog is mean is what I'ved experienced over the years. Some of my best friends have had dogs that they kept and pleasure hunted until the dog died and they never admitted that their dog was very aggressive. Occasionally two different ones would come to go pleasure hunting not knowing that the other was coming and the next morning both would call and state that the other had an aggressive dog because they never had any trouble hunting with just my dogs.
There are bloodlines that i'ved seen consistently produce it for over 50 years that I know of.
Dogs that posture when they meet a strange dog should be harshly corrected.
Dogs that are possessive of the dog box, air or water and not willing to share with other dogs should be culled when young as you are just going to make your problem someone elses.
I've observed that the amount of dogs that will jump another dog while on track is happens more often than most think.

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pamjohnson
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Registered: Feb 2012
Location: airville,pa
Posts: 2072

Kler kry
Well said

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Old Post 06-07-2020 02:44 PM
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Team Mafia 2
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Registered: Feb 2018
Location:
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quote:
Originally posted by pamjohnson
A dog doesn't have to defend its self if it won't fight. Now does that mean that it won't stay treed with a mean dog. Not at all. There are dogs that will stay treed with a mean dog and not have too use everyone's excuse of defending itself.
We don't always get the perfect dog so we try to make do with what we get.
If they get in a fight regardless of what happened do we need to make an excuse? If we do need to use excuses where do we stop using them?


If you go to enough hunts sooner or later your dog is absolutely going to either have to fight or leave. There will come a time when that backing up and circling won’t work. I fully expect to handle anything I’m hunting when I get there come hell or high water. It may sound bad but I would rather handle one out of the middle of a dog fight and take my scratch than know that he or she didn’t have the guts to stay and take a minus.

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Reuben
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Nov 2011
Location: Freeport,TX
Posts: 1907

Team Mafia 2...

I agree with what you said...

The way I see it in hog dogs and would expect the same in a tree dog...

I want my dog to only focus on the game...because he is so focused and because he wants the game he will ignore a few bites here and there...but once the other dog over steps his boundary I want my dog to whip the other dog and make him back up...I expect that out of my dogs...
I can not feed a mean dog...or a dog that is constantly trying to establish dominance and creating issues because of it...

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Training dogs is not so much about quantity, it's more about timing, and the right situations...After that it's up to the dog....A hunting dog is born...

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Old Post 06-11-2020 03:00 AM
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Stan Ferrell
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Registered: Aug 2014
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A dog that fights another dog, is just that a, fighter. The only place this type of dog is allowed, put up with, and even defended is in the comp hunts. How many times has your hound had to "defend" himself while hide hunting?, Bear hunting? coyote hunting?

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DL NH
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Registered: Jan 2016
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Posts: 589

I like a dog that is content to stay back off the tree a few feet and bark treed when in rough company and practices “social distancing!” 😉😉

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Old Post 06-11-2020 03:13 PM
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johnny reb
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Registered: Nov 2004
Location: tennessee
Posts: 856

quote:
Originally posted by Stan Ferrell
A dog that fights another dog, is just that a, fighter. The only place this type of dog is allowed, put up with, and even defended is in the comp hunts. How many times has your hound had to "defend" himself while hide hunting?, Bear hunting? coyote hunting?



I don’t know you from Adam but I have a question. I walk up to you and knock the snot out of what are you going to do? Are you going to defend yourself? I sure hope so. There’s a very big difference in a mean dog and one protecting themselves.

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Old Post 06-12-2020 04:44 AM
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Stan Ferrell
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Then there is only one mean dog in the whole world cause all the others are just defending themselves. So once we find that dog, the problem will be over.

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Old Post 06-12-2020 12:53 PM
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pamjohnson
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Registered: Feb 2012
Location: airville,pa
Posts: 2072

quote:
Originally posted by Team Mafia 2
If you go to enough hunts sooner or later your dog is absolutely going to either have to fight or leave. There will come a time when that backing up and circling won’t work. I fully expect to handle anything I’m hunting when I get there come hell or high water. It may sound bad but I would rather handle one out of the middle of a dog fight and take my scratch than know that he or she didn’t have the guts to stay and take a minus.
I have heard this said many times. I may even start to believe it. LOL
Seriously though maybe that is what happened. We heard it. We been taught it.
Stan Ferrell makes a valid point.
Me and you Dalton have disagreed on the fighting rules and I imagine we will disagree on this subject as well.
I do understand where your coming from on this subject. With the money on the line or a shot at a world title on the line ya sure don't want to lose cause your dog won't stay treed no excuses. I know you fellows hunt way bigger hunts than me but I see and hear the same attitude at the small local club hunts. Unfortunately the attitude you have and many other is not a healthy attitude for the hunts or the quality of dogs we need. Some day maybe a dog will help change your mind or maybe not. I'm sure I won't. I 'll probably just get you mad at me.

Like I say in most cases we work with the style of dog we get cause it's real real hard to get everything under 1 collar.

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johnny reb
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Registered: Nov 2004
Location: tennessee
Posts: 856

quote:
Originally posted by Stan Ferrell
Then there is only one mean dog in the whole world cause all the others are just defending themselves. So once we find that dog, the problem will be over.



I don’t think anyone has ever said there weren’t mean dogs. I’ve also not seen people saying they want a mean dog. The majority just want there dog to do what it’s bred to do. Just like raising kids you don’t want them to be bullies and pick on people and fight. Also just like kids you don’t want them to be bullied and beat on. So you tell you’re kids in that rare instance that someone is assaulting them to defend themselves. This situation is no different I don’t understand why expecting your dog to defend itself is associated with you being ok or wanting a mean dog.

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