UKC Forums UKC Front Page :: Field Operations :: Show Operations :: Registration :: UKC Store
Here you can view your subscribed threads, work with private messages and edit your profile and preferences Registration is free! Calendar Find other members Frequently Asked Questions Search Home  
UKC Forums : Powered by vBulletin version 2.3.0 UKC Forums > Departments > UKC Coonhounds > Rules Proposal Results
Pages (3): « 1 [2] 3 »   Last Thread   Next Thread
Author
Thread Post New Thread    Post A Reply
deschmidt27
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jun 2008
Location: Burlington, CT
Posts: 1718

Re: off game

quote:
Originally posted by Emily
so if the hounds come back full of quills (reeking of skunk)but no one saw the porcupine (skunk)itself, they haven't been molesting off game?


Another good point!

I like most of these changes, but this one seems to be a license to ignore reality!

__________________
David Schmidt
219-614-0654

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Old Post 09-05-2019 02:35 AM
deschmidt27 is offline Click Here to See the Profile for deschmidt27 Click here to Send deschmidt27 a Private Message Click Here to Email deschmidt27 Find more posts by deschmidt27 Add deschmidt27 to your buddy list Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
Rocketman55
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Aug 2008
Location: SE Ohio, Glouster
Posts: 2183

2020 Rules

For those claiming these are the best rules EVER to hunt under, let just take a quick look at what is being called THE BEST.

Proposal 1- Babbling- With this rule as it is now written, I can agree with any judge or handler who doesn't like the fact that somebody else got first strike, and as soon as they question if the dog is babbling, I can agree, knock that dog out of strike points all together, and then gain tremendously on that particular dog so long as I get strike and tree points in the top two positions on that same track.

With the rule written as it is, it makes it VERY easy to knock someone out of strike points, thus allowing me to gain an unfair advantage of that very same dog that opened ahead of mine. And you will say why that will never happen as we are HONORABLE Sportsmen. Well we all have already seen just how honorable most folks are today with this WIN AT ALL COST attitude.

We are all so HONORABLE today that with these new rules we no longer have a need to require a hound to maintain a HOUND trait. You see, Silent trailing is a FAULT, in the eye of the TRUE Houndsman. And I am a TRUE HOUNDSMAN. This was a fault when the rules were originally written and has remained a fault until to passing of these past rules proposals. So from where I am sitting YOU Breed Reps that just voted to eliminate one of the most important characteristics of our HOUNDS have just done a GREAT dis-service to the true HOUND Breeders of this nation.

What now separates your style HOUND from the cur dog down the road. NOTHING. and I will say it again NOTHING!!

So Now, breed Reps, why won't you allow the cur dogs to hunt against you in competition? You have NO GOOD ARGUMENT as to why they shouldn't be allowed. But I will tell you this, IF I had wanted to breed for a cur dog I would have done it many, many, years ago.

Some say they are now coming back to hunt UKC, now that the rules are written so much more fair. I call Bull Crap on that one. You just sit back and watch how the silent trailing handlers gang up on the first and 2nd strike dogs, so as to not allow them to receive strike points, so they can strike and tree all in one breath for 225.

I say this is a SAD SAD day!!!!!


And while I am on a role let me just clarify one more thing. UKC did NOT implement these new rule changes, they simply gave the platform for which rules could be changed. YOU the Breed Reps are "in my opinion" fully responsible for making these changes, and it is YOU that will be responsible "in my eyes" for changing the traits of what we will call hounds from this day forward. If your gonna allow a HOUND to operate with cur traits, you should at least require that the term Silent trailer be stamped on the UKC papers so that the true roundsman doesn't get fooled into thinking that hound had superior HOUND traits that were better than most that allowed that dog to be successful in competition.

An if I may quote the famous Emmett Brohard, ENOUGH SAID!!!!!

__________________
Phone-740-767-2572
Dave Mayles
11210 Davis Road
Glouster, Ohio 45732
Home To:
Gr.Nt.Ch. Hooper Ridge Hang'em High Holly
Gr.Nt.Ch. Hooper Ridge Rockets Top Gun.
Gr.Nt.Ch.Hooper Ridge Rocket
Gr.Nt.Ch Hooper Ridge Dolly
Nt.Ch Hooper Ridge Queen
Nt.Ch Raw Dawg Rowdy
PR Tree Banging Buddy
HOOPER RIDGE ENGLISH-POUND FOR POUND THEY ARE ONE TOUGH HOUND!!!!

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Old Post 09-05-2019 04:19 AM
Rocketman55 is offline Click Here to See the Profile for Rocketman55 Click here to Send Rocketman55 a Private Message Click Here to Email Rocketman55 Find more posts by Rocketman55 Add Rocketman55 to your buddy list Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
MARSHALL AYERS
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Mar 2011
Location: candler nc
Posts: 1376

Clarification

With proposal 2 “tree countdown” all dogs treed after 2 min get awarded 25 points will that mean with proposal 7 “treeing but not declared tree” that if the dog that comes in to a tree after the tree is dead will be awarded next available of 25? And if split with 2 dogs 12.5 and if split with 3 dogs 8.33?


I like the full change no doubt just wanna know if it will be best to call my dog treed after the tree is closed and take 125 minus or not say anything and take 25 minus.

__________________
<BIGTIME KENNELS>
MARSHALL AYERS:
828-280-6769
DUAL GRAND GRNITECH'GRCH'PR'NITRO'S BIGTIME GOMER
http://i1178.photobucket.com/albums/x374/bigtimekennels/th_null_zpsaf6e7c86.png

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Old Post 09-05-2019 06:31 AM
MARSHALL AYERS is offline Click Here to See the Profile for MARSHALL AYERS Click here to Send MARSHALL AYERS a Private Message Click Here to Email MARSHALL AYERS Find more posts by MARSHALL AYERS Add MARSHALL AYERS to your buddy list Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
MARSHALL AYERS
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Mar 2011
Location: candler nc
Posts: 1376

Clarification

With proposal 2 “tree countdown” all dogs treed after 2 min get awarded 25 points will that mean with proposal 7 “treeing but not declared tree” that if the dog that comes in to a tree after the tree is dead will be awarded next available of 25? And if split with 2 dogs 12.5 and if split with 3 dogs 8.33?


I like the full change no doubt just wanna know if it will be best to call my dog treed after the tree is closed and take 125 minus or not say anything and take 25 minus.

__________________
<BIGTIME KENNELS>
MARSHALL AYERS:
828-280-6769
DUAL GRAND GRNITECH'GRCH'PR'NITRO'S BIGTIME GOMER
http://i1178.photobucket.com/albums/x374/bigtimekennels/th_null_zpsaf6e7c86.png

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Old Post 09-05-2019 06:31 AM
MARSHALL AYERS is offline Click Here to See the Profile for MARSHALL AYERS Click here to Send MARSHALL AYERS a Private Message Click Here to Email MARSHALL AYERS Find more posts by MARSHALL AYERS Add MARSHALL AYERS to your buddy list Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
Redneck Mafia
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Aug 2013
Location: Seneca, Mo
Posts: 4179

Re: off game

quote:
Originally posted by Emily
so if the hounds come back full of quills (reeking of skunk)but no one saw the porcupine (skunk)itself, they haven't been molesting off game?

No they haven't, you have to see the coon to plus it even when you know they have got one. We haven't got any porcupine but many of times dogs have gotten sprayed by skunks within in sight of running and treeing a coon never slowed down for the skunk and went straight to the tree with the coon.

__________________
Cheyenne & Jennifer Cummings
Seneca , MO
(417)317-4815
GRNITECH PKC SCH REDNECK MAFIA
NAT GRNITECH GRCH GRNITECH(3) PKC PCH REDNECK BACKWOODS SHACK
2014 OK STATE CH, 2015 MO PKC LEADER, 2016 PKC NATIONALS SEMIFINALIST, 2016 UKC TOP 20, 2O17 UKC WORLD CHAMPIONSHIP 3RD PLACE, 2018 PKC SENIOR SHOWDOWN TRUCK HUNT FINAL 4, 2018 MO PKC STATE CHAMPION, 2019 AUTUMN OAKS NATIONAL GRNITE CH, 2019 PKC WORLD CH SEMIFINALIST.
GRNITECH CH PKC CH REDNECK SHACK ATTACK aka TAC 2018 OKLAHOMA STATE CHAMPION

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Old Post 09-05-2019 06:48 AM
Redneck Mafia is offline Click Here to See the Profile for Redneck Mafia Click here to Send Redneck Mafia a Private Message Click Here to Email Redneck Mafia Find more posts by Redneck Mafia Add Redneck Mafia to your buddy list Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
MARSHALL AYERS
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Mar 2011
Location: candler nc
Posts: 1376

Re: 2020 Rules

quote:
Originally posted by Rocketman55
For those claiming these are the best rules EVER to hunt under, let just take a quick look at what is being called THE BEST.

Proposal 1- Babbling- With this rule as it is now written, I can agree with any judge or handler who doesn't like the fact that somebody else got first strike, and as soon as they question if the dog is babbling, I can agree, knock that dog out of strike points all together, and then gain tremendously on that particular dog so long as I get strike and tree points in the top two positions on that same track.

With the rule written as it is, it makes it VERY easy to knock someone out of strike points, thus allowing me to gain an unfair advantage of that very same dog that opened ahead of mine. And you will say why that will never happen as we are HONORABLE Sportsmen. Well we all have already seen just how honorable most folks are today with this WIN AT ALL COST attitude.

We are all so HONORABLE today that with these new rules we no longer have a need to require a hound to maintain a HOUND trait. You see, Silent trailing is a FAULT, in the eye of the TRUE Houndsman. And I am a TRUE HOUNDSMAN. This was a fault when the rules were originally written and has remained a fault until to passing of these past rules proposals. So from where I am sitting YOU Breed Reps that just voted to eliminate one of the most important characteristics of our HOUNDS have just done a GREAT dis-service to the true HOUND Breeders of this nation.

What now separates your style HOUND from the cur dog down the road. NOTHING. and I will say it again NOTHING!!

So Now, breed Reps, why won't you allow the cur dogs to hunt against you in competition? You have NO GOOD ARGUMENT as to why they shouldn't be allowed. But I will tell you this, IF I had wanted to breed for a cur dog I would have done it many, many, years ago.

Some say they are now coming back to hunt UKC, now that the rules are written so much more fair. I call Bull Crap on that one. You just sit back and watch how the silent trailing handlers gang up on the first and 2nd strike dogs, so as to not allow them to receive strike points, so they can strike and tree all in one breath for 225.

I say this is a SAD SAD day!!!!!


And while I am on a role let me just clarify one more thing. UKC did NOT implement these new rule changes, they simply gave the platform for which rules could be changed. YOU the Breed Reps are "in my opinion" fully responsible for making these changes, and it is YOU that will be responsible "in my eyes" for changing the traits of what we will call hounds from this day forward. If your gonna allow a HOUND to operate with cur traits, you should at least require that the term Silent trailer be stamped on the UKC papers so that the true roundsman doesn't get fooled into thinking that hound had superior HOUND traits that were better than most that allowed that dog to be successful in competition.

An if I may quote the famous Emmett Brohard, ENOUGH SAID!!!!!



I understand your point completely but the last real statement the pertained to a actual hound with the rules “sit back and watch a silent hound get struck and treed in one breath for 225” in my opinion if I have a open trailing type hound and your silent trail dog can strike and tree for 100 and 125 before my open trail dog gets its mouth open it deserves the 225. 90% of the time a silent trailing hound will take a low end strike. So what will beat you is when that silent dog is struck for a quarter and treed for 125 split with the meat. The strike points will not effect the outcome cast as much for a silent dog as much as it will with a babbling dog or a fast strike dog.

Like I said I understand where you are going but I do not believe it will open it up to where a silent dog has more of and advantage. Especially if you in a cast where you cut 4 dogs together and they stay together if the track is more than 10 yards long you should have at least 2 dogs that bark on the ground and get called struck before the silent dog is struck and treed in the same breath. If the dogs are together and the silent hound gets first strike that means your hound ran the track without opening its mouth as well.

__________________
<BIGTIME KENNELS>
MARSHALL AYERS:
828-280-6769
DUAL GRAND GRNITECH'GRCH'PR'NITRO'S BIGTIME GOMER
http://i1178.photobucket.com/albums/x374/bigtimekennels/th_null_zpsaf6e7c86.png

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Old Post 09-05-2019 06:57 AM
MARSHALL AYERS is offline Click Here to See the Profile for MARSHALL AYERS Click here to Send MARSHALL AYERS a Private Message Click Here to Email MARSHALL AYERS Find more posts by MARSHALL AYERS Add MARSHALL AYERS to your buddy list Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
Redneck Mafia
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Aug 2013
Location: Seneca, Mo
Posts: 4179

Rocketman you seem to not understand that in the past and now with the change a dog can be minused for babbling anytime during the hunt. Now just like in the past if you disagree you can ask for a vote. If the majority agrees dog was babbling it is minused, just like in the past. The only change that I see in this rule is the 2-2 vote or 1-1 vote strike will be deleted and required to re-strike where in the past it required a majority to overturn a judge (3-1 or 2-1), tie votes went with the judge.

__________________
Cheyenne & Jennifer Cummings
Seneca , MO
(417)317-4815
GRNITECH PKC SCH REDNECK MAFIA
NAT GRNITECH GRCH GRNITECH(3) PKC PCH REDNECK BACKWOODS SHACK
2014 OK STATE CH, 2015 MO PKC LEADER, 2016 PKC NATIONALS SEMIFINALIST, 2016 UKC TOP 20, 2O17 UKC WORLD CHAMPIONSHIP 3RD PLACE, 2018 PKC SENIOR SHOWDOWN TRUCK HUNT FINAL 4, 2018 MO PKC STATE CHAMPION, 2019 AUTUMN OAKS NATIONAL GRNITE CH, 2019 PKC WORLD CH SEMIFINALIST.
GRNITECH CH PKC CH REDNECK SHACK ATTACK aka TAC 2018 OKLAHOMA STATE CHAMPION

Last edited by Redneck Mafia on 09-05-2019 at 07:48 AM

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Old Post 09-05-2019 07:28 AM
Redneck Mafia is offline Click Here to See the Profile for Redneck Mafia Click here to Send Redneck Mafia a Private Message Click Here to Email Redneck Mafia Find more posts by Redneck Mafia Add Redneck Mafia to your buddy list Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
Jon Hadden
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Aug 2004
Location: OLMSTEAD KY
Posts: 185

I been waiting for this a long time.
THANK YOU UKC!!!!!!!!!!!!!

__________________
CH GR NITECH PR BACKWATER PICKLES HTX (RIP)
NTCH PR SMOKIN HOT DOT
NTCH PR HADDEN’S 100 PROOF FRECKLES
PR SMOKIN HOT WHEELS UP
PR SMOKIN HOT SWEET ANNIE
PR TREE PAC'N LITTLE PETE

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Old Post 09-05-2019 10:16 AM
Jon Hadden is offline Click Here to See the Profile for Jon Hadden Click here to Send Jon Hadden a Private Message Click Here to Email Jon Hadden Find more posts by Jon Hadden Add Jon Hadden to your buddy list Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
Redneck Mafia
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Aug 2013
Location: Seneca, Mo
Posts: 4179

Re: Clarification

quote:
Originally posted by MARSHALL AYERS
With proposal 2 “tree countdown” all dogs treed after 2 min get awarded 25 points will that mean with proposal 7 “treeing but not declared tree” that if the dog that comes in to a tree after the tree is dead will be awarded next available of 25? And if split with 2 dogs 12.5 and if split with 3 dogs 8.33?


I like the full change no doubt just wanna know if it will be best to call my dog treed after the tree is closed and take 125 minus or not say anything and take 25 minus.


Ok here ya go... if only 1 dog is declared treed next available is still 75 pts, if 2 dogs are declared treed and both were before the 2 min next available is 50 pts, if one of the 2 dogs was after the 2 minutes is up on the tree next available 25 pts. Multiple dogs can hold the 4th tree position of 25 points.
To split tree points you add up what ever places were available and divide by however many dogs are there but not treed in each will have at least 25 available to them so they will never take less than 25-.

__________________
Cheyenne & Jennifer Cummings
Seneca , MO
(417)317-4815
GRNITECH PKC SCH REDNECK MAFIA
NAT GRNITECH GRCH GRNITECH(3) PKC PCH REDNECK BACKWOODS SHACK
2014 OK STATE CH, 2015 MO PKC LEADER, 2016 PKC NATIONALS SEMIFINALIST, 2016 UKC TOP 20, 2O17 UKC WORLD CHAMPIONSHIP 3RD PLACE, 2018 PKC SENIOR SHOWDOWN TRUCK HUNT FINAL 4, 2018 MO PKC STATE CHAMPION, 2019 AUTUMN OAKS NATIONAL GRNITE CH, 2019 PKC WORLD CH SEMIFINALIST.
GRNITECH CH PKC CH REDNECK SHACK ATTACK aka TAC 2018 OKLAHOMA STATE CHAMPION

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Old Post 09-05-2019 10:44 AM
Redneck Mafia is offline Click Here to See the Profile for Redneck Mafia Click here to Send Redneck Mafia a Private Message Click Here to Email Redneck Mafia Find more posts by Redneck Mafia Add Redneck Mafia to your buddy list Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
Redneck Mafia
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Aug 2013
Location: Seneca, Mo
Posts: 4179

quote:
Originally posted by Sgraves
Maybe over looking the answer to my question. Say your scoring dog A tree . During shine time of dog A handler of dog B trees his dog. Dog B tree is dead. When recutting dog A it goes an trees with dog B. Will handler have to tree dog A or will dog A be minused for going into tree? Might not have worded this right so feel free to correct me.

This will depend if UKC leaves the option to lead dog A to dog B's tree if so leave it on the leash as your option. If they don't leave the option it in the rules, you would be minused next available for covering after tree time is up on coon, slick or off game if your dog is there before judge arrives.

__________________
Cheyenne & Jennifer Cummings
Seneca , MO
(417)317-4815
GRNITECH PKC SCH REDNECK MAFIA
NAT GRNITECH GRCH GRNITECH(3) PKC PCH REDNECK BACKWOODS SHACK
2014 OK STATE CH, 2015 MO PKC LEADER, 2016 PKC NATIONALS SEMIFINALIST, 2016 UKC TOP 20, 2O17 UKC WORLD CHAMPIONSHIP 3RD PLACE, 2018 PKC SENIOR SHOWDOWN TRUCK HUNT FINAL 4, 2018 MO PKC STATE CHAMPION, 2019 AUTUMN OAKS NATIONAL GRNITE CH, 2019 PKC WORLD CH SEMIFINALIST.
GRNITECH CH PKC CH REDNECK SHACK ATTACK aka TAC 2018 OKLAHOMA STATE CHAMPION

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Old Post 09-05-2019 10:51 AM
Redneck Mafia is offline Click Here to See the Profile for Redneck Mafia Click here to Send Redneck Mafia a Private Message Click Here to Email Redneck Mafia Find more posts by Redneck Mafia Add Redneck Mafia to your buddy list Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
Sgraves
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Dec 2017
Location:
Posts: 248

quote:
Originally posted by Redneck Mafia
This will depend if UKC leaves the option to lead dog A to dog B's tree if so leave it on the leash as your option. If they don't leave the option it in the rules, you would be minused next available for covering after tree time is up on coon, slick or off game if your dog is there before judge arrives.
That is my thoughts also. Basically same as chkc .

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Old Post 09-05-2019 12:37 PM
Sgraves is offline Click Here to See the Profile for Sgraves Click here to Send Sgraves a Private Message Click Here to Email Sgraves Find more posts by Sgraves Add Sgraves to your buddy list Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
Redneck Mafia
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Aug 2013
Location: Seneca, Mo
Posts: 4179

Yes and it will have included that you can't turn loose when the time is going on someone's strike and if trees are scored out of order for convenience. Those rules didn't change.

__________________
Cheyenne & Jennifer Cummings
Seneca , MO
(417)317-4815
GRNITECH PKC SCH REDNECK MAFIA
NAT GRNITECH GRCH GRNITECH(3) PKC PCH REDNECK BACKWOODS SHACK
2014 OK STATE CH, 2015 MO PKC LEADER, 2016 PKC NATIONALS SEMIFINALIST, 2016 UKC TOP 20, 2O17 UKC WORLD CHAMPIONSHIP 3RD PLACE, 2018 PKC SENIOR SHOWDOWN TRUCK HUNT FINAL 4, 2018 MO PKC STATE CHAMPION, 2019 AUTUMN OAKS NATIONAL GRNITE CH, 2019 PKC WORLD CH SEMIFINALIST.
GRNITECH CH PKC CH REDNECK SHACK ATTACK aka TAC 2018 OKLAHOMA STATE CHAMPION

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Old Post 09-05-2019 02:05 PM
Redneck Mafia is offline Click Here to See the Profile for Redneck Mafia Click here to Send Redneck Mafia a Private Message Click Here to Email Redneck Mafia Find more posts by Redneck Mafia Add Redneck Mafia to your buddy list Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
deschmidt27
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jun 2008
Location: Burlington, CT
Posts: 1718

Re: Re: off game

quote:
Originally posted by Redneck Mafia
No they haven't, you have to see the coon to plus it even when you know they have got one. We haven't got any porcupine but many of times dogs have gotten sprayed by skunks within in sight of running and treeing a coon never slowed down for the skunk and went straight to the tree with the coon.


Yes, you have to see a coon to plus it and if I look up a tree and only see a opossum, squirrel or porcupine, then I would clearly minus it and/or scratch. But sight is not the only sense an experienced houndsman has. In fact, up until the scoring of a tree, everything that was done that affected the outcome of the hunt was done by what we heard. And if I hear hounds blow through one woods and then another and another, in a matter of minutes, I don't have to see the off game to KNOW they're running it. If you don't believe me, look at the looks on everyone's face when that happens. No one will admit it, but they all know what's happening. I've recently experience porcupines, with my move to New England and I'm quite certain that my GrNtCh did not accidentally run into one. I also used to tell myself, for years, that my innocent dog accidentally got sprayed by a skunk. But the truth is, they ran it, got sprayed, remembered they weren't supposed to run them, and then went and got treed! If a hound is opening on track (of course that's no longer required) then skunks get out of the way! The only time they don't get out of the way, is when they can't because they're being tracked!

__________________
David Schmidt
219-614-0654

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Old Post 09-05-2019 02:05 PM
deschmidt27 is offline Click Here to See the Profile for deschmidt27 Click here to Send deschmidt27 a Private Message Click Here to Email deschmidt27 Find more posts by deschmidt27 Add deschmidt27 to your buddy list Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
Rocketman55
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Aug 2008
Location: SE Ohio, Glouster
Posts: 2183

Mr. Ayers, I must not have been clear enough on my explanation and for that I apologize but it seems as if You missed my point. You said you didn't believe this rule change would effect or give the silent dog an undue advantage. Let me try once again to explain to you what is NOW going to happen with NONE to little recourse.

Lets say your hunting a tight/silent dog and I'm hunting a dog that opens on scent just as soon as it smells it. You have a buddy that has drawn to your cast and I have a buddy drawn to that same cast.

My dog opens within 20 feet of where we cut, your buddy speaks up and says "I think that dog is babbling" I say NO it is not. With this new rule change, all you have to do is agree with your buddy and it doesn't matter what the rest of the cast thinks, I am NOT getting my strike point credited. So now my dog opens again, I cannot strike it for fear of you and your buddy doing the very same thing you just did. Now your dog opens a little farther in and immediately comes treed, Now you get the 100 strike NOT ME, and 125 tree points. You are now legally allowed to cheat me out of my strike points and it only takes one other person to agree with you to do that. Now I'm not even YET talking about misusing a dog for babbling, what I am referring to is simply not awarding strike points to a dog when the opportunity arises.

Now do you see how easily this rule CAN and WILL be abused.


Now for Your situation Mr. Cummings, I know it has always been the rule to minus a dog for babbling but that maneuver takes a MAJORITY to accomplish. I can now ignore your strike position by simply having a 2/2 vote. I no longer need a majority. Now your right in that I cannot really burn you with a 2/2 vote by misusing you but I can do the next best thing and IGNORE your strike points and gain an advantage by simply agreeing with one other person that the dog babbled. Thus I didn't have to minus you to cheat you I simply now have the ability to not award you strike points when I am behind going into the last drop.

And some folks think this will help bring back hunters that were once beaten by a babbling dog. Well it will certainly help to eliminate the dog that opens on track before it trees.

Way to think that one through before implementing!!

__________________
Phone-740-767-2572
Dave Mayles
11210 Davis Road
Glouster, Ohio 45732
Home To:
Gr.Nt.Ch. Hooper Ridge Hang'em High Holly
Gr.Nt.Ch. Hooper Ridge Rockets Top Gun.
Gr.Nt.Ch.Hooper Ridge Rocket
Gr.Nt.Ch Hooper Ridge Dolly
Nt.Ch Hooper Ridge Queen
Nt.Ch Raw Dawg Rowdy
PR Tree Banging Buddy
HOOPER RIDGE ENGLISH-POUND FOR POUND THEY ARE ONE TOUGH HOUND!!!!

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Old Post 09-05-2019 02:06 PM
Rocketman55 is offline Click Here to See the Profile for Rocketman55 Click here to Send Rocketman55 a Private Message Click Here to Email Rocketman55 Find more posts by Rocketman55 Add Rocketman55 to your buddy list Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
T Felderman
UKC Forum Member

Registered: May 2005
Location: Bellevue, IA
Posts: 1724

I could do without the changing of proposal 5 and 7.

#5 I liked the way it was. Hate AKC and CHKC leash lock rules. They worked out so well hunters are flocking to hunt them, lol.

#7 I don't need to pile on the minus tree points when a dog is treed with a coon. They are already taking strike minus. lots of casts will be determined on one tree.

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Old Post 09-05-2019 02:28 PM
T Felderman is offline Click Here to See the Profile for T Felderman Click here to Send T Felderman a Private Message Find more posts by T Felderman Add T Felderman to your buddy list Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
Rolin Blues
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Nov 2005
Location: Iowa
Posts: 2795

Yes

It's about time for some changes. I'm getting too old to compete much, but really think a lot of these new rules is going to get more hunters in your clubhouse doors, especially with the new 5 cast win qualification for some more BIG $$ in new hunt.

high ridge- Does that Ocean front property have a boat dock included? I might be interested!!! Or would trade you my Ice cube factory in Alaska, even up. Take care, Ron.

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Old Post 09-05-2019 02:50 PM
Rolin Blues is offline Click Here to See the Profile for Rolin Blues Click here to Send Rolin Blues a Private Message Find more posts by Rolin Blues Add Rolin Blues to your buddy list Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
Sgraves
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Dec 2017
Location:
Posts: 248

quote:
Originally posted by deschmidt27
Not sure about Proposal 11... that rule was rarely enforced as it was, and now it never will. It seems to me that a dog or dogs that in a matter of minutes, have blown out of the woods, across the bean field, through a fence row, another field and are still boogeying, are clearly on off game. I don’t know that anyone needs to actually see the deer, to know the dogs are running one! To simply call timeout and go get them, as opposed to minusing or scratching them, is BS.

In 30 years of hunting, mine and other’s dogs have ran quite a few deer, and I’ve only actually seen the deer once! Now, it did happen to be in a competition event, and there were those that still didn’t want to scratch the dogs!

The handler knows when his dog is messing with junk. Everybody else knows too even though no one can see it. No way will you ever get some one to say, minus my dog what he’s doing is not right. All this rule will do is protect trash runners if trash is not seen. As far as skunks go, I have seen dogs mess with them out of curiosity.My opinion if they get sprayed they get what they deserve. Some dogs just love them stinky things.

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Old Post 09-05-2019 04:00 PM
Sgraves is offline Click Here to See the Profile for Sgraves Click here to Send Sgraves a Private Message Click Here to Email Sgraves Find more posts by Sgraves Add Sgraves to your buddy list Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
deschmidt27
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jun 2008
Location: Burlington, CT
Posts: 1718

Grant,

Are you saying that since we have historically ignored the obvious, that it makes sense to know firm it up with a rule change? On a deer, I have attempted to do the right thing and had a Master of hounds overrule me. The dogs were 3/4 of a mile deep in less than 10 minutes (in Indiana, where we have plenty of trees to climb) and they were still going. Either that’s the fastest coon that ever lived or a deer! That makes me even less inclined to be a “judge”, if we’re not allowed to do the right thing.

On the skunk... maybe an argument that your innocent dog was in the wrong place at the wrong time. So that’s a tough one. But just seeing the skunk, won’t eliminate that debate! Someone will argue the coon and therefore it’s track, was there first!

On a dog face full of quills... how could you possibly argue that dog was not molesting a porcupine???

__________________
David Schmidt
219-614-0654

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Old Post 09-05-2019 04:07 PM
deschmidt27 is offline Click Here to See the Profile for deschmidt27 Click here to Send deschmidt27 a Private Message Click Here to Email deschmidt27 Find more posts by deschmidt27 Add deschmidt27 to your buddy list Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
Redneck Mafia
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Aug 2013
Location: Seneca, Mo
Posts: 4179

quote:
Originally posted by Rocketman55
Mr. Ayers, I must not have been clear enough on my explanation and for that I apologize but it seems as if You missed my point. You said you didn't believe this rule change would effect or give the silent dog an undue advantage. Let me try once again to explain to you what is NOW going to happen with NONE to little recourse.

Lets say your hunting a tight/silent dog and I'm hunting a dog that opens on scent just as soon as it smells it. You have a buddy that has drawn to your cast and I have a buddy drawn to that same cast.

My dog opens within 20 feet of where we cut, your buddy speaks up and says "I think that dog is babbling" I say NO it is not. With this new rule change, all you have to do is agree with your buddy and it doesn't matter what the rest of the cast thinks, I am NOT getting my strike point credited. So now my dog opens again, I cannot strike it for fear of you and your buddy doing the very same thing you just did. Now your dog opens a little farther in and immediately comes treed, Now you get the 100 strike NOT ME, and 125 tree points. You are now legally allowed to cheat me out of my strike points and it only takes one other person to agree with you to do that. Now I'm not even YET talking about misusing a dog for babbling, what I am referring to is simply not awarding strike points to a dog when the opportunity arises.

Now do you see how easily this rule CAN and WILL be abused.


Now for Your situation Mr. Cummings, I know it has always been the rule to minus a dog for babbling but that maneuver takes a MAJORITY to accomplish. I can now ignore your strike position by simply having a 2/2 vote. I no longer need a majority. Now your right in that I cannot really burn you with a 2/2 vote by misusing you but I can do the next best thing and IGNORE your strike points and gain an advantage by simply agreeing with one other person that the dog babbled. Thus I didn't have to minus you to cheat you I simply now have the ability to not award you strike points when I am behind going into the last drop.

And some folks think this will help bring back hunters that were once beaten by a babbling dog. Well it will certainly help to eliminate the dog that opens on track before it trees.

Way to think that one through before implementing!!



No under current rules it takes a majority to overturn the judges call of a dog babbling. His vote counts for essentially a vote and a half now he is just a vote much like the scoring of trees, no more weight than anyone else unless he is a non-hunting judge
Before if the judge said a dog is babbling all that had to agree is one cast member if you called for a vote and the dog would be minused. New rule if you ask for a vote and one cast member agrees with the judge it will be deleted points, it will take the majority to minus if you ask for a vote disagreeing that a dog was babbling. With the new rule it will be easier for a cast to get dtrike points deleted but more difficult to actually minus a dog than before.

__________________
Cheyenne & Jennifer Cummings
Seneca , MO
(417)317-4815
GRNITECH PKC SCH REDNECK MAFIA
NAT GRNITECH GRCH GRNITECH(3) PKC PCH REDNECK BACKWOODS SHACK
2014 OK STATE CH, 2015 MO PKC LEADER, 2016 PKC NATIONALS SEMIFINALIST, 2016 UKC TOP 20, 2O17 UKC WORLD CHAMPIONSHIP 3RD PLACE, 2018 PKC SENIOR SHOWDOWN TRUCK HUNT FINAL 4, 2018 MO PKC STATE CHAMPION, 2019 AUTUMN OAKS NATIONAL GRNITE CH, 2019 PKC WORLD CH SEMIFINALIST.
GRNITECH CH PKC CH REDNECK SHACK ATTACK aka TAC 2018 OKLAHOMA STATE CHAMPION

Last edited by Redneck Mafia on 09-05-2019 at 04:23 PM

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Old Post 09-05-2019 04:21 PM
Redneck Mafia is offline Click Here to See the Profile for Redneck Mafia Click here to Send Redneck Mafia a Private Message Click Here to Email Redneck Mafia Find more posts by Redneck Mafia Add Redneck Mafia to your buddy list Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
shadinc
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jun 2014
Location: Louisiana
Posts: 2111

quote:
Originally posted by deschmidt27
Grant,

On a dog face full of quills... how could you possibly argue that dog was not molesting a porcupine???

The porcupine was standing directly where the coon passed and the dog ran into him. You can make an argument for anything.

__________________
Donald Bergeron

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Old Post 09-05-2019 04:21 PM
shadinc is online now Click Here to See the Profile for shadinc Click here to Send shadinc a Private Message Click Here to Email shadinc Find more posts by shadinc Add shadinc to your buddy list Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
deschmidt27
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jun 2008
Location: Burlington, CT
Posts: 1718

quote:
Originally posted by shadinc
The porcupine was standing directly where the coon passed and the dog ran into him. You can make an argument for anything.


Poor choice of words. How about, “how can you honestly argue”???

__________________
David Schmidt
219-614-0654

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Old Post 09-05-2019 04:44 PM
deschmidt27 is offline Click Here to See the Profile for deschmidt27 Click here to Send deschmidt27 a Private Message Click Here to Email deschmidt27 Find more posts by deschmidt27 Add deschmidt27 to your buddy list Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
Grant Noeske
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jun 2003
Location:
Posts: 1058

quote:
Originally posted by deschmidt27
Grant,

Are you saying that since we have historically ignored the obvious, that it makes sense to know firm it up with a rule change? On a deer, I have attempted to do the right thing and had a Master of hounds overrule me. The dogs were 3/4 of a mile deep in less than 10 minutes (in Indiana, where we have plenty of trees to climb) and they were still going. Either that’s the fastest coon that ever lived or a deer! That makes me even less inclined to be a “judge”, if we’re not allowed to do the right thing.

On the skunk... maybe an argument that your innocent dog was in the wrong place at the wrong time. So that’s a tough one. But just seeing the skunk, won’t eliminate that debate! Someone will argue the coon and therefore it’s track, was there first!

On a dog face full of quills... how could you possibly argue that dog was not molesting a porcupine???



I don't have a problem with eliminating a rule that a judge often guesses at, can easily be applied incorrectly, can be abused and VERY rarely gets applied. Even in the scenario you provided the dog ended up not getting minused.

I can argue against all of the scenarios you mentioned. They may not be good arguments, in your opinion, but I can make them and a judge has to make a judgment call as to whether my argument is possible, even if it's unlikely. Now he/she doesn't have to guess. Either it was seen or it wasn't.

Just my opinion. Maybe the only way to get closer to perfect on an off game rule is to create a separate rule for each type of off game...?

__________________
Visit the Treeing Walker Association's Website at www.TWBFA.com

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Old Post 09-05-2019 05:07 PM
Grant Noeske is offline Click Here to See the Profile for Grant Noeske Click here to Send Grant Noeske a Private Message Visit Grant Noeske's homepage! Find more posts by Grant Noeske Add Grant Noeske to your buddy list Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
jay brademeyer
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Mar 2005
Location: north dakota
Posts: 2373

Awesome!!! About time we get some big boy rules... Nice job UKC

__________________
JAMES RIVER HOUND KENNEL
JAY BRADEMEYER 701 308 0490
Home of the late Ntch Moonshiners Sassy and 88 Walker Days Winner Grntch Ceder Hill Sass

"Building on a solid foundation starts on the bottom side"

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Old Post 09-05-2019 05:24 PM
jay brademeyer is offline Click Here to See the Profile for jay brademeyer Click here to Send jay brademeyer a Private Message Click Here to Email jay brademeyer Find more posts by jay brademeyer Add jay brademeyer to your buddy list Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
deschmidt27
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jun 2008
Location: Burlington, CT
Posts: 1718

quote:
Originally posted by Grant Noeske
I don't have a problem with eliminating a rule that a judge often guesses at, can easily be applied incorrectly, can be abused and VERY rarely gets applied. Even in the scenario you provided the dog ended up not getting minused.

I can argue against all of the scenarios you mentioned. They may not be good arguments, in your opinion, but I can make them and a judge has to make a judgment call as to whether my argument is possible, even if it's unlikely. Now he/she doesn't have to guess. Either it was seen or it wasn't.

Just my opinion. Maybe the only way to get closer to perfect on an off game rule is to create a separate rule for each type of off game...?



Grant, I agree there’s no easy answer. I guess I would have preferred an approach, that would have made it more likely that dogs be appropriately minused and scratched for running off game, than less likely. All too often, it happens we know it’s happening and nothing is done.

In the example I provided, I attempted to do what was right and had my legs cut out from under me by the master of hounds. Now we’re just doing that proactively.

__________________
David Schmidt
219-614-0654

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Old Post 09-05-2019 05:38 PM
deschmidt27 is offline Click Here to See the Profile for deschmidt27 Click here to Send deschmidt27 a Private Message Click Here to Email deschmidt27 Find more posts by deschmidt27 Add deschmidt27 to your buddy list Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
Toad Hill
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jun 2014
Location: missouri
Posts: 899

Far as Curs go , dont be fooled . Some been breeding them in for years now . UKC just hasnt caught em.


If a person previously dont like to judge a cast and or didnt ever carry a stopwatch , Starting in 2020 EVEN IF you dont judge you better get you a duck lanyard of them cause you're going to need them to keep track .... AND brush up on the new rules if you're gonna compete.

__________________
Home of >

* CH GR NT CH Lonesome Dove LORI ( 2018 UKC World top 25 ) World Qualified 3 years straight [ double bred , 2X WLD CH Eng Fem GRNTCH Backroads Rosie bred ]
* NT CH Small Town Bingo STAR DNA-VIP ( 2019 Winter Classic 2nd place ) [ HOF GRNTCH Wilcox Thunder Bingo X Dual Grand Tree Rockin' Nelly ]
* 'PR' Small Town Lone Survivor aka "LONER" DNA-VIP [ GRNTCH Cabin Creek Rowdy X CH GRNTCH Lonesome Dove Lori ]

+ I am the Wretch the song refers to

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Old Post 09-05-2019 05:57 PM
Toad Hill is offline Click Here to See the Profile for Toad Hill Click here to Send Toad Hill a Private Message Find more posts by Toad Hill Add Toad Hill to your buddy list Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
All times are GMT. The time now is 02:49 AM. Post New Thread    Post A Reply
Pages (3): « 1 [2] 3 »   Last Thread   Next Thread
Show Printable Version | Email this Page | Subscribe to this Thread


Forum Jump:
 

Forum Rules:
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not edit your posts
HTML code is OFF
vB code is ON
Smilies are ON
[IMG] code is ON
 
< Contact Us - The United Kennel Club >

Copyright 2003-2017, United Kennel Club
Powered by: vBulletin Version 2.3.0
(vBulletin courtesy Jelsoft Enterprises Limited.)