UKC Forums - 14. Calling Dogs Off Trail.

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Remove this minus Rule from the Rulebook. You do not have permission to vote on this poll.
Yes, per proposal.	12	35.29%
No, leave as is.	22	64.71%
Total:	34 votes	100%

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Redneck Mafia
UKC Moderator

Registered: Aug 2013
Location: Seneca, Mo
Posts: 5823

quote:
Originally posted by joey
What rule do you use if a guy just decides to call his dog off track? What do you do? I dont mean calling timeout, just calls his dog in and sends it the other way?

He can't. And the minus thing was used in conjunction with time out and putting the hour on them.
Guess the rule he would use is I withdraw, go hollering at your dog without it being time out and you know what will happen.
You know you can't call your dog in unless on time out and you can't be on time out unless it fits one of the time out rules. What many had never noticed is that to move spots is only in them now if all dogs are leashed.
Many seem to be against a change that happened years ago. They use a rule that doesn't exist to implement one that remains on the card. They only worked together no way to use one without the other.

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06-27-2019 03:45 AM

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joey
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jun 2012
Location: McRae Ar
Posts: 3701

quote:
Originally posted by Redneck Mafia
He can't. And the minus thing was used in conjunction with time out and putting the hour on them.
Guess the rule he would use is I withdraw, go hollering at your dog without it being time out and you know what will happen.
You know you can't call your dog in unless on time out and you can't be on time out unless it fits one of the time out rules. What many had never noticed is that to move spots is only in them now if all dogs are leashed.
Many seem to be against a change that happened years ago. They use a rule that doesn't exist to implement one that remains on the card. They only worked together no way to use one without the other.

Your right he cant because of 4e.

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06-27-2019 04:18 AM

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Redneck Mafia
UKC Moderator

Registered: Aug 2013
Location: Seneca, Mo
Posts: 5823

quote:
Originally posted by joey
Your right he cant because of 4e.

He can't because of 7 Time Out.

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06-27-2019 04:21 AM

joey
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jun 2012
Location: McRae Ar
Posts: 3701

quote:
Originally posted by Redneck Mafia
He can't because of 7 Time Out.

I'm trying to understand how you are tying these two together? Rule 7 does not say anything except you can call timeout under certain conditions. It doesn't mention anything about what happens if a man calls a dog off without calling timeout. Rule 4e does.

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06-27-2019 05:33 AM

Redneck Mafia
UKC Moderator

Registered: Aug 2013
Location: Seneca, Mo
Posts: 5823

quote:
Originally posted by joey
I'm trying to understand how you are tying these two together? Rule 7 does not say anything except you can call timeout under certain conditions. It doesn't mention anything about what happens if a man calls a dog off without calling timeout. Rule 4e does.

You can't holler at your dog and call him off trail during the hunt only when on time out. When you go hollering at your dog the hour must be started, the hour can't start until time out is called.

Back in the day when a cast wanted to move spots they called time out took their minus and had one hour to catch their dog. Under current rules you can't call timeout just because you want to. Several years back more specific rules were put into place of when you could call time out and all fall under delete not minus.

Go look at the screen shot I posted earlier.

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06-27-2019 05:59 AM

Dogwhisper
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Feb 2005
Location:
Posts: 1739

I understand what he"s saying ....for the longest 4(e) has been miss applied when it was followed up by calling time out.....in order to move to a new hunting spot .. e.g....everyone agrees to take their minus in order to get the "hail" out of this spot....nothin moving here just wasteing time.
I'm not convinced that removeing 4(e) is the correct move.
Maybe adding verbage to the affect that we can't use 4(e) just to move to new ground.

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06-27-2019 06:04 PM

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Pat Bizich
Banned

Registered: May 2004
Location: northeast
Posts: 1278

quote:
Originally posted by Redneck Mafia

quote:
Originally posted by Redneck Mafia
My best guess is at sometime the rule change committee took it out of Time Outs and forgot to take 4(e) off the card.

I am going to try again. I actually have located the exact information I was looking for. And your guess (SORRY) what happened is wrong.

First the card condensing was done January 2014.
Rule 4 (e) covered minus dogs on 8 minutes.
. quitting and coming in,etc.and because it dealt with many different situations was broken down.
this rule 4 was condensed down to the one line we are all familiar with of "minus to dogs if called off a track". IT DID NOT originate in the in the time outs as you guess.
This sentence was moved from Rule 17 under what was then general information. And moved to 4(e) because rule 4 dealt with minus points .
Rules in 4 where then simplified to make it easier to find on the card which is why most are now one liners.

To complicate matters which is causing your main argument.
Under time outs (Rule 8) then. The verbiage ...If new ground must be found to finish cast and more then 15 minutes is required or have to move to new area by vehicle call time out immediately. (Go back you will see I already said this in a prior post.)
It was completely deleted. Any ones guess why.
Additionally as to the 5(g) argument. That rule pertains to dogs that are trailing when hunt time "RUNS" out.
It was changed from circle to delete because it was felt that awarding circle points in that circumstance should not be able to be used to break ties So they changed to get deleted.
Maybe a better argument would be to put this deleted time out rule back where it belongs in the time outs.
Perhaps leaving out the 15 minute requirement part.

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