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Reuben
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Registered: Nov 2011
Location: Freeport,TX
Posts: 369

quote:
Originally posted by HOBO
Are you really breeding cold nosed dogs, or dogs with the smarts to know how to work that track up.

Several years ago there was a study done that implied all dogs can smell the same. It's just some dogs get more excited than other on older scent.

There are lots of "cold" nosed dogs out there that stand on their head on a bad track, then there are others that can move that same track out and get it treed like it's a hot track.

Both dogs smelled the same track, just one of them had the brains to know what to do with it.



Back between 1983 and 1985 a professor did a study and it was published in outdoor life magazine...he tested newborn pups and he found that all pups from all breeds he tested smelled the same including bloodhounds...except for the English pointer which tested higher on average...
This professor was going to patent the scent formula but never heard from him again...
I can’t say I agree with his logic and testing on account he didn’t test mature dogs...

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"Kindness is a universal language that dogs can hear and feel.” RC

Training dogs is not so much about quantity, it's more about timing, and the right situations...After that it's up to the dog....A hunting dog is born...

Last edited by Reuben on 01-24-2018 at 05:24 PM

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yadkintar
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Registered: Jan 2013
Location: Marietta
Posts: 6316

Some dogs smell different dry than they do wet !!!





Tar

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Old Post 01-24-2018 06:39 PM
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H. L. Meyer
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Registered: Sep 2003
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Come on Tar

We are trying to learn something and there you go sturing that POT again. MAN

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Old Post 01-24-2018 10:39 PM
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Reuben
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Registered: Nov 2011
Location: Freeport,TX
Posts: 369

Re: .

quote:
Originally posted by Bruce m. Conkey

I am not a person that deals in theory or dreams. Yes I dream and yes, I understand the theory of how many things suppose to work. Beyond that I only deal with facts and I make the facts work several times before I consider them to be true facts. Trust me. Sticking to facts puts a person on the outside looking in, when dealing with the coon hound world. Thats why I like math, mechanical and electrical things. There is a factual reason for everything that happens in those worlds. Not emotion, feelings, shoulda, woulda or coulda.



Bruce...it didn’t take me long to figure your way of thinking...
I am the complete opposite of you but that is what makes the world go round...but I will tell you that I tested line breeding and inbreeding and my dogs actually improved as the years went by...I see line breeding as the way to go...absolutely no doubt in my mind...I believe that most things can be improved upon and striving for uncharted territory excites me...sound logic solves problems...

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"Kindness is a universal language that dogs can hear and feel.” RC

Training dogs is not so much about quantity, it's more about timing, and the right situations...After that it's up to the dog....A hunting dog is born...

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Old Post 01-25-2018 12:38 AM
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Reuben
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Nov 2011
Location: Freeport,TX
Posts: 369

Breeding Better Dogs

The first thing is you have to know what a good hunting dog is...

And no excuses...good hunting dogs don’t have bad days...most of the time they have great days...

If you have a dog that fights other dogs at the bay or at the tree and you discipline him to the point that he does right...it doesn’t matter...he or she are not breeding worthy...no excuses

To have great dogs you only breed great dogs...yep, once in a while we breed an average dog from the same line if you lose the great one...but this option is a last resort...a good example is this quote from a wise king...
The king said to his son...it is better to marry and have children with a fair maiden that comes from a family of many beautiful women and many leaders of men than to marry a beautiful maiden from a family of many fair maidens and of many poor peasants...

Preferably it is better to stick with the best but sometimes we have to make
That choice but even that must be kept to a minimum...

__________________
"Kindness is a universal language that dogs can hear and feel.” RC

Training dogs is not so much about quantity, it's more about timing, and the right situations...After that it's up to the dog....A hunting dog is born...

Last edited by Reuben on 01-25-2018 at 11:22 PM

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Old Post 01-25-2018 01:33 AM
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Reuben
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Nov 2011
Location: Freeport,TX
Posts: 369

Breeding better dogs

The second thing is finding the right hunting dogs to hunt and breed...that can be a big chore...but once you find them....and they hunt as you like...then the questions we need answered...how much line breeding in the pedigree?
Is there a great dog that had or has great parents...maybe you get lucky and find this dog and you have access to breeding your gyp to him...does this dog have a brother of the same credentials...how about their sires sire?

Look at the pedigrees and decide where your focus should be...linebreed off the dams side or the sires side...you should map out what is available now and what will be available in the future and follow the plan...
No excuses...if you have to spend a lot of time to make a hunting dog and you breed it then you can expect to get more of the same with future generations...

So make sure to breed to the right dogs...

__________________
"Kindness is a universal language that dogs can hear and feel.” RC

Training dogs is not so much about quantity, it's more about timing, and the right situations...After that it's up to the dog....A hunting dog is born...

Last edited by Reuben on 01-25-2018 at 11:27 PM

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Old Post 01-25-2018 01:49 AM
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Reuben
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Nov 2011
Location: Freeport,TX
Posts: 369

Breeding Better Dogs

The gyp is bred...keep her in the right environment and hunt her if at all possible...

Pups are born...socialize them...

Test them for nose, how they cast and find, how they wind...There will be pups that are born knowing to do it...THE NATURALS...yes we can train pups through repetition but as breeders we should look for the naturals...natural ability begets more of the same in future generations...

We need to be careful to not make excuses for the pups...

__________________
"Kindness is a universal language that dogs can hear and feel.” RC

Training dogs is not so much about quantity, it's more about timing, and the right situations...After that it's up to the dog....A hunting dog is born...

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Old Post 01-25-2018 02:01 AM
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Reuben
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Nov 2011
Location: Freeport,TX
Posts: 369

Breeding Better Dogs

The next thing to do and this is up there with the most important things to do in a breeding program...is keeping the right pups to continue improving the bloodline...by testing the pups we have a pretty good idea which pups to keep...is this method 100 percent accurate???no but the chances of being right are on our side...so we finally have the right young dogs doing and they are doing an excellent job in the woods...

We should constantly be reading our pups so we can grade our pups...we need to see the good points as well as the bad...I don’t baby the pups that much but use common sense...
Example below that really happened...

My 6 month old pup got whipped by a big boar and he went to squalling and the other pups got in and got the boar off of him...he gets up and looks at me and I point to the Hog and say get em...that pup turned and got right back in the boars face...that to me was very exciting and spoke volumes of what was in that pup...

If that pup had turned tail and looked for a way out of the pen I would have seen that as a red flag...

Folks may say that the pup was a baby and not mature enough just yet...but I see it in a different way...I want to know what the pup is made of...If the pup is ruined then he wasn’t worth keeping...we just need to have that feel as to what the pups limitations are...

Speaking of limitations...there is a progression of learning skills with pups and this progression is directly related to age and can vary according to breed or strain...this is true for all hunting pups...I expect the pups I keep to be on that graph as a minimum but it is a great feeling when one is ahead of schedule...we learn this through experience...

When the pup makes the grade and is now mature...the process starts over again...we just need to keep the outcrossed dogs out as much as possible...
Proper handling of pups and dogs a must...environment is important especially for pups...

Breeding better dogs is fairly easy once we have the right dogs to hunt and breed...

If we get educated enough about breeding better dogs then hopefully there won’t be as many culls out there...

__________________
"Kindness is a universal language that dogs can hear and feel.” RC

Training dogs is not so much about quantity, it's more about timing, and the right situations...After that it's up to the dog....A hunting dog is born...

Last edited by Reuben on 01-25-2018 at 11:34 PM

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Old Post 01-25-2018 02:59 AM
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Bruce m. Conkey
UKC Forum Member

Registered: May 2016
Location: Palatka, FL
Posts: 3209

.

Ruben some very, very good advice in those post. You mentioned the gyp and hunting her. Couple years ago we had one two weeks away from giving birth and had her in a night hunt. Most of the barb wire down here is so old it won't cut you. Well that night we lead the dogs through a brand new razor sharp fence that scared me. I mentioned to Corey who was handling her that if there was any more new barb wire out there to withdraw her. I didn't want her cut crossing those new fences. Other than that I had no worries about hunting her and she did just fine. Think she made 4 trees that night.

You talk about hog hunting. Plenty of that down here. The female mentioned above was a Gold Champion and I bred her to a Son of Tequila Sunrise I had. Several of the pups went to hog hunters and bear hunters. I have pictures of a 4 month old pup from that litter standing nose to nose with a very big hog in a pen. This hog had some work done on his teeth but not the less he was still mean. One guy that bear hunted named his pup Bruce. Well a couple months ago Corey at the store came to my desk and said a guy out front had a dog named Bruce that came from me. I had to go to his truck and check that rascal out. I will admit that I think other people have better appreciation for some of the pups that have left here than I do. I am a little critical on my dogs. lol If they don't walk of water, I usually let them sink.

Fixing to load two pups less than a year old and go see if they have any interest in a coon this morning. I guess I am fixing to have some frustration this morning. Good news is even though I will be frustrated and know the truth. I can take a couple pictures and make things look good. lol

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Old Post 01-25-2018 11:39 AM
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yadkintar
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Registered: Jan 2013
Location: Marietta
Posts: 6316

I study papers and memorize bloodlines and try to memorize crosses that I know worked but has it helped me maybe some. But the reason I do it it's interesting to me to see a cross in history that really clicked and try to guess why it did but with all that imformation how come you never can duplicate it you might get enjoyable talented dogs but never that super cross again.




Maybe mine was better in my mind than they was in the woods !!




Tar

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Old Post 01-25-2018 12:19 PM
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Dustin reddish
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Registered: Oct 2015
Location: Florida
Posts: 27

Bruce Conkey abbey pups

I had 3 pups off of abbey and boss which was a pup out of tequila sunrise that was very nice hog and bear dogs. And when I say very nice can produce game every time you go to woods cold trailing ability tree and heart to fight a mean bear. I also had 2 pups off of wipe out blaze and abbey and all the same abilitys great dogs just a different color

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Old Post 01-25-2018 12:32 PM
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yadkintar
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Registered: Jan 2013
Location: Marietta
Posts: 6316

We bred the same female to the same stud twice one time the first time all dogs were above average. The second litter was worthless and all got culled and when I meen worthless I meen worthless !!!



Tar

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Old Post 01-25-2018 12:42 PM
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HOBO
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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Fredericksburg Va
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I bred Pride to Ruby at least 5 times and once to Benson. Each cross threw pretty much the same as the litter before it.
I just wish I had bred her to Benson a couple more times instead of Pride every time so I could have gotten more females to cross back on Pride and his sons.

I've made several repeat crosses and have gotten pretty much the same results each time. I've never made a repeat cross and it not work as before.

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Ch.Swampmusic Lil Bit Sassy
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But Looking To The Future...
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Old Post 01-25-2018 01:28 PM
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yadkintar
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Hobo I am going in deep on this one by time we made the cross the second time the stud was really old do you think that had somthing to do with it by worthless I meen they had no desire to hunt and scared of a coon and timid.





Tar

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Old Post 01-25-2018 02:09 PM
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HOBO
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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Fredericksburg Va
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I don't know Tar.

Pride was 9 the last litter i raised off of him and Ruby and Ruby turned 11 just 4 days after having the pups.

I never saw a drop off in how the pups were when I was breeding Lobo when he was 10 1/2.

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Swampmusic Kennel
Remembering Our Past......
Gr.Nt.Ch.Gr.Ch.Dohoney's Lobo
Ch.Swampmusic Lil Bit Sassy
Ch.Swampmusic Misty Shadow
Gr.Ch.Swampmusic Boone

But Looking To The Future...
Gr.Ch.Swampmusic Pride
Ch.Swampmusic Miss Mary
Gr.Ch.Swampmusic HoneyBee
Gr.Ch.Swampmusic Big Hoss




Dennis Robinson
Cell 540-295-3892

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Old Post 01-25-2018 02:46 PM
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