Registered: May 2016
Location: Palatka, FL
Posts: 5104

I read these post about everyday but the circle you run in seems to keep me confused. I respect your age and experience in the coon hound hunt world. But I need a clarification. Can you share me your thought process on how a cast should be run and the winner determined. Please just don't start talking about those 3 hours hunts. Everything else is fair game and I would like your opinion.

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Registered: Jun 2006
Location: Newton, North Carolina
Posts: 12254

Get the popcorn ready.

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Registered: May 2015
Location: IN
Posts: 2760

Kinda scary

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Registered: Jan 2013
Location: Marietta
Posts: 10790

Well Bruce I just drove 200 miles because Mrs tar only wanted one kind of paneling and that was the closest I could get it lol. I really am flexible on things. Most of the time I start a thread so the brass can see how people really feel about things. They might not be as forthcoming if they had to start their own thread. Really Bruce you should know because you were there also. Any hunt of any importance should have non hunting judges. Elimination style at the larger hunts I like that. I still think a dog should have one 1rst place to be a NTCH. And a NTCH should have to show it can tree a coon by itself to be a grand. All the rules above that will be voted on if they were to pass would make the one hour minie slams the hottest hunt and most popular and profitable hunt in ukc. I ain’t doing nothing I do for me I am doing what I do for the young folks to enjoy coonhunting for generations to come it’s been my everything it’s the one thing that I always felt I was good at not everybody is cut out for professional sports but everybody if they work hard can be good at coonhunting.



Tar

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Registered: Jan 2007
Location: monroeville OH
Posts: 2685

OK Tar you can do better than that! just apply yourself.

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C.JONES

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Registered: Jan 2019
Location: Broughton, Illinois
Posts: 71

Is no thought process, just rambles on and on and on.

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Registered: Jan 2013
Location: Marietta
Posts: 10790

Ask me dirrect question about the hunts and I will give you my dirrect opinion without cutting up I will be serious.


Tar

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Registered: Nov 2016
Location:
Posts: 142

quote:

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Originally posted by yadkintar
Most of the time I start a thread so the brass can see how people really feel about things. They might not be as forthcoming if they had to start their own thread. And a NTCH should have to show it can tree a coon by itself to be a grand.
Tar

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Registered: Jan 2013
Location: Marietta
Posts: 10790

I think either a moh or it could be an htx hunt or just a trust worthy judge. A lot of NTCHs are hunting by their self down here most don’t even hunt the whole time limit just tree a coon and quit but we really have low numbers down here people are doing the best they can. You have rule changes coming up in September y’all need to know they need your input to see how supportive you will be of the decisions that are made.



Tar

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Registered: Sep 2016
Location: NC
Posts: 110

And a NTCH should have to show it can tree a coon before it can be a Grand? Why not before it’s a NTCH?

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Registered: Sep 2016
Location: NC
Posts: 110

quote:

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Originally posted by yadkintar
I think either a moh or it could be an htx hunt or just a trust worthy judge. A lot of NTCHs are hunting by their self down here most don’t even hunt the whole time limit just tree a coon and quit but we really have low numbers down here people are doing the best they can. You have rule changes coming up in September y’all need to know they need your input to see how supportive you will be of the decisions that are made.



Tar

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Registered: Jan 2013
Location: Marietta
Posts: 10790

quote:

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Originally posted by Mike Mckinney
And a NTCH should have to show it can tree a coon before it can be a Grand? Why not before it’s a NTCH?

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Registered: Jan 2013
Location: Marietta
Posts: 10790

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Mike Mckinney
just tree a coon and quit! Seems you have seen them tree a coon! [/QUOT



Supposed to hunt 2 hrs.


Tar

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Registered: Sep 2016
Location: NC
Posts: 110

I get that but if there quitting club makes money still and they can’t win.

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Registered: Sep 2016
Location: NC
Posts: 110

I get that but if there quitting club makes money still and they can’t win.

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Registered: May 2015
Location: IN
Posts: 2760

Tar, what ya think about this?


Location: Nebraska
Posts: 14

STRIKE POINTS
"In my opinion"

ALL strike points should be worth the same and only be used for accountability.

NO advantage should EVER be given to "the first dog to bark" and by using a tier level strike point system that's all you are really doing and all you will ever do.
I find it funny that we put rules/points in place to promote hunting a dog that opens the quickest, then put rules in place against it when they do. Babble, Argue, pitch, bitch, question and in many instances give undeserved advantage and for what?? Because we think barking first should be rewarded?? Really?? Try equal strike points on a buddy hunt some time. It puts a whole new perspective on things.
Notice I said "first dog to bark" I didn't say "first dog to honestly open on a coon track" because it is impossible to determine that period!! I understand that was the intent, but there is just NO WAY you can ever prove it. Strike points in comp hunts can play a HUGE factor in the outcome.
Determining the best "COONDOG" based on which dog opens it's head first?? Really?? That is ridiculous and does nothing but promote babbling. You can't get a faster strike than one right off the lead, right?!? LOL

How a dog uses it's mouth on the ground is nothing more than personal preference and should in NO WAY be used as a tool to measure the quality of a real COONDOG nor the outcome of a coon hunt. I learned years ago that the one making the most noise isn't always the one getting the most done. I've hunted with all styles from silent to wide open, but I've NEVER judged how good of a coondog they were by how fast they got their head open. The best hide dogs I've ever hunted with were my Dad & Granddad's crossbreds back in the late 60's and early 70's. Several were pretty tight, others not, strike meant nothing but the shed walls were always covered.

Which dog is the best COONDOG?? Simple, the dog that can tree the most COONS in a set amount of time. Not trees, not circles, and most certainly NOT the one that "barks" first. (And NO, my dogs aren't silent or even tight mouthed, if anything they are very quick to open.)

I am just of the opinion of...strike "smike"....the whole strike thing is WAAAY over rated and all to often misused because of the format. How fast a hound gets open is absolutely no measure of a coon dog to me......impress me....alone, in company, wet, dry, hot, cold, near or far.... play whatever hand your dealt and show me as many coon as you can in the area I'm hunting and do it in short order!!

Again, JMO

Greg

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Registered: Jan 2013
Location: Marietta
Posts: 10790

Curtis the author and I are really good freinds and he read it to me before he posted it and I totally and completely agree with him. We were really talking about a hunt when that came up where what ever dog treed first was the only dog that got credit for a coon seen. The dog with the most coons seen at the end of the night was the winner. Only one dog gets credit per coon. No strike points no minus points.


Tar

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Registered: Dec 2017
Location:
Posts: 340

Am sure I will get pushed in front of a car for saying this but oh well. Am not taking up for tar because he’s a big boy an can take up for himself. Strick points doesn’t really mean squat nowadays. Dogs are being bred to open their mouth on a mouse fart. I understand some of you guys have dogs that can strick of the lead an end up a mile deep with a coon. I really want to believe you. But for the most part all strick points are these days is a way to get undeserved points. Circle points is just a way to cover up a slick treeing idiot. Treeing a coon should be the only way a nite hunt should be based on. All this other stuff is more handler related than dog. We wouldn’t need have of these rules if the hunt was only based on treeing coon. Point system will work itself out. More real coon dogs will start showing up also.

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Registered: Feb 2005
Location:
Posts: 1739

If strike points are worthless as some say .... Then get rid of the scratch on the "continuesly "Silent" dog

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Registered: May 2004
Location: northeast
Posts: 1278

Now you guys are getting my dander up.
A true hound .. read that again...TRUE HOUND. .. must first be able to smell ...trail... and... TREE SECONDARY TO RUNNING A TRACK they must be accurate in doing so or there would be no sense in awarding minus when they tree wrong for not finishing that track accurately.
If opening has no consequence why is there a rule dealing with dogs proving to be open trailers ? Why do HTX hunts fault a dog that does not open on trail? BECAUSE IT IS A HOUND TRAIT!!!!
Any barn yard mutt dog can tree game. That is the difference between a hound and not some mongrel farm dog that can tree game.
Saying how quick a dog strikes has no bearing on a dogs ability is a bogus cop out by guys hunting hot nosed dogs that want to level the field for their HOT NOSED DOGS!!!
You may as well be hunting curs.
So you got three dogs lollygagging around. One dog goes out and is hustling up a good track. The other three dogs get in on the track with one actually getting the first tree away from the one that found the track . AND YOU SAY THEY SHOULD ALL GET EQUAL CREDIT FOR THAT TRACK??? I say BULL.
You guys wanting rule changes that penalize good hard hunting strike dogs are like the political garbage going on today. Everyone wants the country to come around to the way they want to live instead of conforming to the USA laws everyone else is already living by . Because it is good for them.
You guys want to change the rules to fit what you are hunting instead of hunting dogs that can win by the current rules. Because it is better for them .

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IT SEEMS THAT EVERYTIME A BREED OR LINE OF DOGS GET POPULAR IT EVENTUALLY LEADS TO ITS RUINATION BY UNINFORMED PEOPLE BREEDING WITHOUT DOING THEIR RESEARCH FIRST.

Gone but never forgotten:
NtChGrCh Dryfork Punkin
NtChGrCh Dryfork Little Blue Baby Doll
2009 Pa Show Dog Of The Year
GrCh Dryfork Little Black Book
Gr.Ch. Make My Day Sunny
Gone too soon RIP my baby girl
Gr.Ch. Black Dog Black Cherry
GrCh Dryfork Black Dog Raine
One of kind and would make a believer out of you when you thought there were no coon left
Home of:
2009,2013,2018 Pa. State
Show Handler Of The Year
CH. Power Pack Pepper
2018 Pa. Show Dog Of Year
Gr.Ch. Batman's Poison Ivy
2011&2013 WTDA Pa State Champion
2011&2013 Overall Hunt For The Cure
Ch. Jay's Greenridge Heidi
In memory of my best friend "Jay"

Last edited by Pat Bizich on 05-28-2019 at 11:58 PM

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Registered: Jan 2013
Location: Marietta
Posts: 10790

I never in 40 yrs have seen a dog scratched for being silent. Seen some tight mouthed drifting type dogs that would put a coon up in a hurry tho. The rules we had when I started were really tuff on a dog you had them well trained before you went to a hunt or you were wasting your time. When $$$ first started the first cast and first money I won 3 of the dogs caught the farmers goat and My dog wasn't there and that made me the winner lol.



Tar

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Registered: Sep 2016
Location: NC
Posts: 110

quote:

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Originally posted by Pat Bizich
Now you guys are getting my dander up.
A true hound .. read that again...TRUE HOUND. .. must first be able to smell ...trail... and... TREE SECONDARY TO RUNNING A TRACK they must be accurate in doing so or there would be no sense in awarding minus when they tree wrong for not finishing that track accurately.
If opening has no consequence why is there a rule dealing with dogs proving to be open trailers ? Why do HTX hunts fault a dog that does not open on trail? BECAUSE IT IS A HOUND TRAIT!!!!
Any barn yard mutt dog can tree game. That is the difference between a hound and not some mongrel farm dog that can tree game.
Saying how quick a dog strikes has no bearing on a dogs ability is a bogus cop out by guys hunting hot nosed dogs that want to level the field for their HOT NOSED DOGS!!!
You may as well be hunting curs.
So you got three dogs lollygagging around. One dog goes out and is hustling up a good track. The other three dogs get in on the track with one actually getting the first tree away from the one that found the track . AND YOU SAY THEY SHOULD ALL GET EQUAL CREDIT FOR THAT TRACK??? I say BULL.
You guys wanting rule changes that penalize good hard hunting strike dogs are like the political garbage going on today. Everyone wants the country to come around to the way they want to live instead of conforming to the USA laws everyone else is already living by . Because it is good for them.
You guys want to change the rules to fit what you are hunting instead of hunting dogs that can win by the current rules. Because it is better for them .

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Registered: Dec 2017
Location:
Posts: 340

Mr Pat I too like a open mouth track dog. It is an should be the only measure of a true hound. But the dog your talking about is not the type being brought to these hunts. Some are against the silent mouth dogs in the hunts. An all should be against the babbler. Me , I just want the one treeing the coon getting the credit. The people that are involved in this sport will never be at peace because everyone wants the easy way out. Its not easy preparing a dog for these hunts. Its an every night thing if you want to be successful. People don’t want to prepare. They want rule changes to accommodate their style dog.

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Registered: Jan 2013
Location: Marietta
Posts: 10790

I don’t have a problem with a dog getting his mouth open quick ! It’s what he does after that I may or may not like.



Tar

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Registered: May 2015
Location: IN
Posts: 2760

quote:

---

Originally posted by Pat Bizich
Now you guys are getting my dander up.
A true hound .. read that again...TRUE HOUND. .. must first be able to smell ...trail... and... TREE SECONDARY TO RUNNING A TRACK they must be accurate in doing so or there would be no sense in awarding minus when they tree wrong for not finishing that track accurately.
If opening has no consequence why is there a rule dealing with dogs proving to be open trailers ? Why do HTX hunts fault a dog that does not open on trail? BECAUSE IT IS A HOUND TRAIT!!!!
Any barn yard mutt dog can tree game. That is the difference between a hound and not some mongrel farm dog that can tree game.
Saying how quick a dog strikes has no bearing on a dogs ability is a bogus cop out by guys hunting hot nosed dogs that want to level the field for their HOT NOSED DOGS!!!
You may as well be hunting curs.
So you got three dogs lollygagging around. One dog goes out and is hustling up a good track. The other three dogs get in on the track with one actually getting the first tree away from the one that found the track . AND YOU SAY THEY SHOULD ALL GET EQUAL CREDIT FOR THAT TRACK??? I say BULL.
You guys wanting rule changes that penalize good hard hunting strike dogs are like the political garbage going on today. Everyone wants the country to come around to the way they want to live instead of conforming to the USA laws everyone else is already living by . Because it is good for them.
You guys want to change the rules to fit what you are hunting instead of hunting dogs that can win by tdhe current rules. Because it is better for them .

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Last edited by sleepy head on 05-29-2019 at 12:42 AM

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