Registered: Jul 2012
Location: AR
Posts: 291

quote:

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Originally posted by J I Allen
Jgarret, that slick treer shouldn't be getting circle points, he should be getting minus points. People talk about the babbler but they will not minus a dog for slick treeing. if the babbler and the slick tree dog would get the minus they deserve people would get a different dog to hunt.

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Morrison TN
Posts: 4927

Again, before we had the minute we didn't have this problem nearly as bad.

Why? Because after the first drop of the night you could very easily send Mr Babbler to the truck cause he had to be struck within three barks and you could put your light on him and show everybody that he was just barkin to hear himself bark.

The reason it is so hard now to minus a dog for babbling (I have done it but it's hard) is because by the time 45 seconds or a minute is up the dogs are way out there and that has time for the handler to holler no he's on a track.

Remember though, one thing that has been said on here that is not true is the judge doesn't have to prove a thing. He can minus that dog for babbling ANY TIME he feels the dog is babbling after that minute is up, any where. If the cast doesn't agree they can vote on it but he had the authority to do it whenever he thinks they are babbling.

The big problem is the rule now ALLOWS them to get away with it, it protects the babbler.

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Registered: Jul 2012
Location: AR
Posts: 291

quote:

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Originally posted by yadkintar
You get dogs that operate like dark they will start digging holes for those babblers you get in coons with dogs like her them babblers deep and alone are out of luck it's changing you will see.

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Registered: Jan 2013
Location: Marietta
Posts: 10790

A breath of fresh air for sure I love a dog that just gets around like that and just keeps jamming coons that's the way they should be that winning doing all that other crap don't interest me much and I can gaurentee if she would have been hunted back in the 3 or 4 hr hunts she would have been a winner that's the type of dogs we had back then these boys are getting tired of getting beat by them win by default dogs get one like her you ain't got to worry about them.

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Registered: Jan 2016
Location: Bois d'Arc, MO.
Posts: 1823

quote:

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Originally posted by Rip
Again, before we had the minute we didn't have this problem nearly as bad.

Why? Because after the first drop of the night you could very easily send Mr Babbler to the truck cause he had to be struck within three barks and you could put your light on him and show everybody that he was just barkin to hear himself bark.

The reason it is so hard now to minus a dog for babbling (I have done it but it's hard) is because by the time 45 seconds or a minute is up the dogs are way out there and that has time for the handler to holler no he's on a track.

Remember though, one thing that has been said on here that is not true is the judge doesn't have to prove a thing. He can minus that dog for babbling ANY TIME he feels the dog is babbling after that minute is up, any where. If the cast doesn't agree they can vote on it but he had the authority to do it whenever he thinks they are babbling.

The big problem is the rule now ALLOWS them to get away with it, it protects the babbler.

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Registered: Feb 2012
Location: airville,pa
Posts: 2072

quote:

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Originally posted by rob thompson
wrong again, get out and hunt with the dogs you are bashing before you are going to bash them. One simple rule change fixes everything. Alot of dogs that win are not babblers.

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Registered: Jan 2013
Location: Marietta
Posts: 10790

Y'all hang on its going to be ok lol !! Just like the people figured out to use the babble for an unfair advantage to win people have figured out that they don't need it why because most of those babblers will not pack so there is always one of them on the range barking somewhere lol so if you get a little dog that just keeps jamming coons up their butt they ain't got no answer for it because as long as one of those idiots is out there barking deep and alone lol they can't keep you from cutting I don't know if anybody remembers but last year before I started hunting fly I said I had found a chink in their armor she won 10 out of 12 cast in 2 months right about $1,000 get you a honest strike dog that gets under every coon they get near and they can babble all the want that crap was started in the hunts were it don't matter if you got to tree a coon to win ole mouthy, deep, and alone is on his way out lol. And he can take his thyroid pills with him !!!!

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Registered: Oct 2004
Location: Paragon IN
Posts: 1099

quote:

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Originally posted by Jgarrett
I think the best way this could be addressed is if all strike points were worth 50. Dogs would still be held accountable for their strikes and the dog that trees the most coons without screwing up would win. However the rule that dogs that are continuously silent on track will be scratched will have to be Strickly enforced and could also use some improvement.

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Registered: Jan 2013
Location: Marietta
Posts: 10790

Why would a man that has a dog that he thinks is all that and a bag of chips worry about a tight mouth or silent dog crap he is giving you all the strike points unless ............ You are really hunting a hot nosed mouthy mee too dog that can't find its own coon jmo.

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Registered: May 2016
Location: Palatka, FL
Posts: 5106

Lets look at the big picture and maybe it isn't any individual to blame or any group. It is just to way our dogs are headed.
Think we can all agree that we don't like slick tree dogs. I also think we can agree that we don't like babbling dogs.
I think we can agree we don't like pups and dogs that pace in the pen and bark all day.
Thing is we are getting more and more of these types of dogs and I am starting to feel that WE as an ENTIRE group are breeding them. Not intentionally but due to the collection of hunting genes getting more and more in our hounds, it is just the way they are headed. Then we as owners end up with a pretty nice hound that has these flaws but other that that are the best dogs we ever owned and we over load a few slick trees and a loose barks when turned loose. We feel they are too valuable to cull, cause we never had any as good as they are which is a credit to the breeding that is also the curse we are seeing.

I don't know anyone that has intentionally made a cross looking to get slick treeing or babbling dogs.

Then once we get to the point we are and don't realize it is the breeding we look to blame the rules, blame the owners, blame the judges. That is exactly where we are today.

I look at breeding on an individual level, then a regional level and a national level and all of us in one pot. Over time we all influence one another.

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Registered: Jan 2016
Location: Bois d'Arc, MO.
Posts: 1823

quote:

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Originally posted by pamjohnson
well that solves it. it's an imaginary problem. why change the rules to solve an imaginary problem?

by the way i never said all winners are babblers. i just said the competition hunts are the problem.

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Registered: Sep 2011
Location: North Alabama
Posts: 188

quote:

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Originally posted by yadkintar
You get dogs that operate like dark they will start digging holes for those babblers you get in coons with dogs like her them babblers deep and alone are out of luck it's changing you will see.

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Registered: Nov 2011
Location: north ala.
Posts: 902

Wow this must be one of those serious topics! Bruce, it's just easier to blame anything else, but the one in the mirror! You're right every time we breed we need to look at the Good traits and bad because we're going to get both!

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Registered: Jan 2013
Location: Marietta
Posts: 10790

quote:

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Originally posted by DylanHovey
A lot of those babblers can tree them like she can lol

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Registered: Jan 2016
Location: Bois d'Arc, MO.
Posts: 1823

Geeze, Bruce has the cure all! He sells them!lol I bet if every dog born naturallytreed a possum or ran a deer you folks would be complaining to blaming the breeders or comp hunts! What iI'm gathering is you want these dogs born pre-trained!!!!bahahaha he lets see if the breeders can breed them to walk on water aswell or tie your shoes!!!!!

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Registered: May 2016
Location: Palatka, FL
Posts: 5106

Rob the initial strike points right out of the truck are perhaps the most valuable points of the night. This is especially true if your in the presence of real good hounds.

In an hour hunt they are even more valuable as they determine how the hunt is going to go.

I have been in cast where the competition has treed 4 alone and my dog has treed 4 alone. It came down to who had the most strike points out of the truck. We were on the loosing end the night.

Had a cast just this last month. Competitor had 2 alone, we had 2 alone and then they got together on one. This was a one hour hunt. We had the most strike points out of the truck that night and won.

The better the competition the more the strike points out of the truck count.

I love the no leash lock rule. Won't get any argument out of me on that one.

If you don't think the genetics of these dogs have changed, there is no use in even discussing that. Bark Collar sales are at an all time high. Shocking system sales are at an all time high and ALPHAS are the #1 selling product for the roundsman. This is because of the issues todays dogs have. They didn't get it from the water they are drinking but the genetics in their body.

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Registered: May 2016
Location: Palatka, FL
Posts: 5106

Tar, I think your forgetting that one glaring thing stood out.
Was that dog silent, because when I read the play by play I think on every tree but one it was like strike and then tree all in the same breath.

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Registered: Jan 2013
Location: Marietta
Posts: 10790

No Bruce one dog ran the whole two hours all she could get was 25 strike.

Last edited by yadkintar on 03-29-2017 at 03:57 PM

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Registered: May 2016
Location: Palatka, FL
Posts: 5106

No Tar. Read the play by pay. Strike Dark then in same breath Tree Dark.

Here is some excerpts from play by play.e:
World Hunt Final Play x Play
Unread postby JAMIE AYRES » Sun Mar 19, 2017 2:11 am
DARK STRIKES FOR 25 AND TREES FOR 100 ALL IN ONE BREATH

Another tree.
DARK STRIKES AND TREES

Another tree strike and tree within a minute
Sun Mar 19, 2017 2:59 am
DARK IS STRUCK FOR 25
Sun Mar 19, 2017 2:59 am
DARK IS TREED FOR 100

Last tree
Sun Mar 19, 2017 3:19 am
DARK IS STRUCK
Sun Mar 19, 2017 3:23 am
DARK TREED

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Registered: Jan 2016
Location: Bois d'Arc, MO.
Posts: 1823

Oh my gosh how did she win if she didn't babble or get struck for a hundred!!Lao!!!the sky is falling!!! Our dogs won't pack unless she barks!!!

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Registered: May 2016
Location: Palatka, FL
Posts: 5106

Rob you know this better than I do. It is all about the coon in the trees.

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Registered: Jan 2016
Location: Bois d'Arc, MO.
Posts: 1823

Take strike away she still wins!!!oh Bruce I know and I was told along time ago it is hard to beat a real coondog and that's the truth! That playbyplay proves the answer to the babbler!!

Last edited by rob thompson on 03-29-2017 at 04:26 PM

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Registered: Jan 2013
Location: Marietta
Posts: 10790

If that strike out of the truck was as important as you say it is her striking for 25 and treeing for 100 with the coon 5 times should have been elementary my dear should have been an easy win for that first strike dog she beat me like that I would have been hunting me a new dog the next day not whining about her being silent but I ain't got a mouthy dog to make excuses for.

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Registered: May 2016
Location: Palatka, FL
Posts: 5106

One simple thing could have made that cast totally different. The dog that got out of pocket and treed could of made the entire difference. It is a shame it happened and why a big mouth is important. Again with that said, maybe the dog had a big mouth and wind was against it or it was in a little drop off and couldn't be heard. But if that dog had been heard and the cast went to it and then recut it and some of the other dogs might have got out of pocket. The outcome could have all be different. Just a bad break for one dog but that is what competition coonhunting is all about the breaks.

Me personally. I don't care what the other ones do. It is about my dog treeing coon and hopefully not catching a bad break while it is treeing them. What I call a bad break is finding the coon with 10 seconds left on shine time and not having time to show anyone else and they all see it when the tree is closed. What I call a bad break is treeing a coon in a bush and just before you get there the dog getting the coon out and there goes all those tree points.
The bottom line is treeing coon and the breaks will all even out.

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Registered: May 2016
Location: Palatka, FL
Posts: 5106

Tar your smarter than that. The strike out of the truck is important if the dogs are going to match one another treeing coon. If one dog dominates in treeing coon that is all that matters.

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