Registered: Jul 2009
Location: INDIANA
Posts: 2878

Maybe it is I'm getting old and forgetful but it seems to be there are more and more arguments on cast about a few members running ahead of other cast members to the trees. I would also bet 90% of the time the advantage goes to the first ones there, either their dog was off the tree or stated one of the hunters behind hound was off the tree. It is time this rule is enforced the same as any other rule, run off and leave cast members behind, your scratched. If your hound does not stay you need to be training and not going to a hunt. A few bad apples can and will ruin the entire bag 👍

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Registered: Oct 2013
Location: Maryland
Posts: 2633

The only "bad apple" is the judge for not scratching them...usually the guy that has to get there first has a dog with a problem. Next time a handler beats the judge to the tree put a question on the scorecard.

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Registered: Aug 2014
Location:
Posts: 780

quote:

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Originally posted by msinc
The only "bad apple" is the judge for not scratching them...usually the guy that has to get there first has a dog with a problem. Next time a handler beats the judge to the tree put a question on the scorecard.

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Registered: May 2004
Location: Sullivan IL.
Posts: 3060

did UKC not pass the rule that a handler can be sent to handle his dog, so why cant the judge send a handler to handle his dog infront of the cast. I normally try to keep the cast together (becouse i am scard of the dark) but on the other hand we drive 8hr.to the hunt and mis 2days of work 2nights in the motel and now we can only score on 3coon instead of 5 becouse we have a slow person in the cast? not being rude just thinking out loud.

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Registered: Jul 2009
Location: INDIANA
Posts: 2878

Mark that person must be really slow, 3 vs 5, LMAO! Or there is another real reason! If they dont like the current rules they should vote on it at the rules commitee but as it stands there is a rule to handle this issue, just have to get all to push it and enforce it. But then again some do not have any common decsency and need every advantage they can get.

Example: Slow guy gets first tree and no other dog treed with him, no hurry to get to his tree and slow guy is right with them. When they do a coon is found. He re-cast and gets struck in and and gets second tree. They run to this tree say 50 yards and slow guys has more to gain but they get there and handle their dogs and when slow guy gets there his dog is there hammering just like when he treed it, they minus him and say his dog was off tree? HUH! Oh well when you draw these guys again you know the rules so play the game and use the rules, sad this has to be done. Bottom line is most real coon hunters are not this way, it is the other group!

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Last edited by BEST EVER on 05-26-2017 at 12:34 PM

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Registered: Jan 2013
Location: Marietta
Posts: 10790

Back in the day in the 3 hour hunts the plan was to take your time getting to the tree hoping something would leave lol. I ain't up to jogging while coon hunting I would be breathing so hard I couldn't hear the dogs because I am fat lol.

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Registered: Nov 2004
Location: Michigan
Posts: 9197

Interesting timing....... check out; A Pace Maintainable by All, a topic in the Advisor Column of the June Coonhound Bloodlines.

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Registered: May 2005
Location: Bellevue, IA
Posts: 1869

quote:

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Originally posted by Mark V.
did UKC not pass the rule that a handler can be sent to handle his dog, so why cant the judge send a handler to handle his dog infront of the cast. I normally try to keep the cast together (becouse i am scard of the dark) but on the other hand we drive 8hr.to the hunt and mis 2days of work 2nights in the motel and now we can only score on 3coon instead of 5 becouse we have a slow person in the cast? not being rude just thinking out loud.

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Registered: Aug 2008
Location: SE Ohio, Glouster
Posts: 2244

As I am getting a little slower, I too find this attainable pace to be more of a problem for me to keep up with the 25-30 year old handlers. I agree it is the judges responsibility to keep the cast together on their way to the tree. The problem that I see is when that 25-30 year old guy that is flying through the woods (IS) the judge. When it is of that perspective, we 50/60 year old hunters have no recourse what so ever but to stay home or withdraw. Neither of which helps the registry or the handler to enjoy the night of competition, neither from a financial or emotional standpoint.

I say if you keep being selfish with your time in the woods, it will all come back to you, because if you are allowed to live 50-60 years and enjoy hunting, YOU too, will one day be left in the dark and on the sidelines, when in reality, you still have something good to offer the sport. So you win at all cost/take no prisoners, type of comp hunters, remember that to earn respect, you MUST offer respect!!!!!

And if you keep your eyes and ears open in one of these situations, you just might learn something, or make a new friend!

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Registered: May 2005
Location: Bellevue, IA
Posts: 1869

If the word "you" is directed towards me and being respectful, you don't know me very well. Lol

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Registered: Jun 2012
Location: McRae Ar
Posts: 3701

quote:

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Originally posted by BEST EVER
Example: Slow guy gets first tree and no other dog treed with him, no hurry to get to his tree and slow guy is right with them. When they do a coon is found. He re-cast and gets struck in and and gets second tree. They run to this tree say 50 yards and slow guys has more to gain but they get there and handle their dogs and when slow guy gets there his dog is there hammering just like when he treed it, they minus him and say his dog was off tree? HUH! Oh well when you draw these guys again you know the rules so play the game and use the rules, sad this has to be done. Bottom line is most real coon hunters are not this way, it is the other group!

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Registered: Jan 2017
Location: mccomb, ms
Posts: 181

I'm glad someone finally brought this up. As this is the only problem I have had with comp hunts. Some guys like to drag behind and try to get the cast to stop and listen after the 5 is up. Unlike some have said, the reason I want to hurry and get to trees is not because I am worried about my dog leaving, it is because I want a 1st place and not a 3rd place finish if I get a CW on that night. My dad had a cast at the winter classic that took over an hour to get to his dog with no other dogs treed because a handler kept making them stop to listen and the judge allowed it. IMO when I slow down I will most likely quit comp hunting because it's not fair to the dog to not give him the full 2 hours to tree as many coons as possible, because someone in your cast wants to drag behind.

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Registered: Sep 2010
Location: New Paris, Indiana
Posts: 7076

quote:

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Originally posted by joey
When I can't maintain a normal pace I'll quite and leave it to the younger guys.

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Registered: May 2012
Location: Asheville, North Carolina
Posts: 629

MarkV, I think the rule you're thinking about is if the dogs are split treed the judge can let you go handle your dog. Don't worry fella's you'll get to that point in your life where you can't keep up and you'll be the first to want to scratch the people that are only doing what you are doing now, running off and leaving the old men. If your answer is you'll quit when you get old, then coon hunting doesn't mean as much to you as it does to a true coonhunter, and just because you comp hunt doesn't make you a coonhunter.

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Registered: Sep 2005
Location: Southwest Ohio
Posts: 1774

Define a "normal" or "attainable" pace

That human interpretation thing again! Dang it!

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Registered: Jul 2009
Location: INDIANA
Posts: 2878

Luck of the draw, some may not always run to the trees but then again sometimes you draw aligators and they dont get scratched, some dogs leave babbling and dont get scratched, some strike and tree other than their hounds and they do not get scratched. Like I said to start with 90% or more is for another reason than holding up the cast. I was young once and could get through the woods better than most but never did I leave a hunter behind going to the tree, but then agian ones doing it are not true coon hunters. I would much rather be in a cast were hunters treated each other like coon hunters should and be a little slower than to be in a cast runing to the tree all nights and bitching and complaining all night about dog fights, babbling and trying to scratch someone all night so they can win at all cost.

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Registered: Feb 2011
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quote:

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Originally posted by JiM
If everyone had that attitude, we wouldn't even be having this discussion.

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Registered: Nov 2004
Location: Michigan
Posts: 9197

For what it's worth......


Advisor Column
June 2017
Allen Gingerich

Pace Attainable by All
I recently had a conversation with a nice old fella probably in his upper-60’s. This veteran obviously still loves to hunt and usually carries a pretty decent hound. The conversation turned into the topic of how some of the younger guys tend to be in a big hurry getting to trees. He said that most casts are great about not leaving him behind but every now and then he’ll run into some guys that just don’t care to gear it down a bit. He also remarked that it may not be that much longer before he’ll have to turn the lead strap over to a younger handler.

It was obvious by the stories and memories he shared that he has never lost an ounce of passion for hunting hounds and competing with them. While this topic was addressed a number of years ago in this column, his passion inspired me to touch on the topic again as a friendly reminder for us to be considerate of those older hunters who still enjoy the nite hunts.

Then just last weekend I was a spectator on a cast where one of the handlers was a bit older and slower. However, not even close, in my opinion, where he should consider giving it up. We’ll call him Bill, mainly because that was his actual name. As a spectator, I noticed that Bill was usually the one bringing up the rear and we were getting away from him at times. So, I started walking along with him at his pace. The cast was good about stopping periodically and waiting on us to catch up, but then off we’d go again. Nonetheless, walking along with this hunter reminded me again of the afore mentioned feller and gave me a few ideas to suggest on this topic.

First, Rule 9 (c) clearly states; {Judge must maintain pace attainable by all cast members of cast.} It irks me when I hear comments along the lines of so and so needs to give it up cause I’m not waiting on a slower handler. Guess what; the rules say you have to! Matter of fact, it says the judge “must” maintain a pace attainable by all. Stopping along the way and allowing them to catch up is what it is, but by virtue of the rule that is not maintaining their pace.

Walking along with Bill and stopping periodically to let him catch up brings me to making a point of something to consider when doing so. Everyone else who stopped to wait on Bill and I, got a minute to take a little breather. As soon as we caught up; off we went again! Guess who probably needed a breather the most? Me! Ok; Bill could have used one, although he wasn’t complaining about it at all. Rather it just reminded me of how that usually works and it’s worth mentioning as something to consider. Throw in some hills and tough walking and it would probably really frustrate someone like Bill.

In my personal experience, I can honestly say that I’ve never really seen where a slower or older guy has been a big issue. As the judge, you might start heading to the trees sooner that you would otherwise. Maybe stopping along the way a few more times than normal. No big deal, is it? It’s being considerate and I think they’ll appreciate and respect you for your consideration. Walking along with Bill the other night made me think of another good suggestion. How easy would it be to simply walk alongside that handler? Now you’re maintaining his pace and you might not even think it’s that slow. At least that’s the thought that came to my mind that night. Just a suggestion that might be worth considering.

Many of our older hunters have been a part of this sport since before some of us had wet ears. Surely, we can be considerate enough to give them a little break allowing them to enjoy the hunts as long as they can do so without hindering their cast mates too much. Think about it. All of us may very well be in their shoes one day. A little respect and consideration for the older hunters will go a long way.

Finally, it is the judge’s responsibility to enforce Rule 9 (c). It was implemented for a dang good reason. Intentionally, dragging behind is for another topic and another day. This one is about being a good sportsman/woman and doing the right thing and giving our elders due consideration and respect.

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Registered: Feb 2011
Location: Otterbein, Indiana
Posts: 272

quote:

---

Originally posted by Allen / UKC
For what it's worth......


Advisor Column
June 2017
Allen Gingerich

Pace Attainable by All
I recently had a conversation with a nice old fella probably in his upper-60’s. This veteran obviously still loves to hunt and usually carries a pretty decent hound. The conversation turned into the topic of how some of the younger guys tend to be in a big hurry getting to trees. He said that most casts are great about not leaving him behind but every now and then he’ll run into some guys that just don’t care to gear it down a bit. He also remarked that it may not be that much longer before he’ll have to turn the lead strap over to a younger handler.

It was obvious by the stories and memories he shared that he has never lost an ounce of passion for hunting hounds and competing with them. While this to



pic was addressed a number of years ago in this column, his passion inspired me to touch on the topic again as a friendly reminder for us to be considerate of those older hunters who still enjoy the nite hunts.

Then just last weekend I was a spectator on a cast where one of the handlers was a bit older and slower. However, not even close, in my opinion, where he should consider giving it up. We’ll call him Bill, mainly because that was his actual name. As a spectator, I noticed that Bill was usually the one bringing up the rear and we were getting away from him at times. So, I started walking along with him at his pace. The cast was good about stopping periodically and waiting on us to catch up, but then off we’d go again. Nonetheless, walking along with this hunter reminded me again of the afore mentioned feller and gave me a few ideas to suggest on this topic.

First, Rule 9 (c) clearly states; {Judge must maintain pace attainable by all cast members of cast.} It irks me when I hear comments along the lines of so and so needs to give it up cause I’m not waiting on a slower handler. Guess what; the rules say you have to! Matter of fact, it says the judge “must” maintain a pace attainable by all. Stopping along the way and allowing them to catch up is what it is, but by virtue of the rule that is not maintaining their pace.

Walking along with Bill and stopping periodically to let him catch up brings me to making a point of something to consider when doing so. Everyone else who stopped to wait on Bill and I, got a minute to take a little breather. As soon as we caught up; off we went again! Guess who probably needed a breather the most? Me! Ok; Bill could have used one, although he wasn’t complaining about it at all. Rather it just reminded me of how that usually works and it’s worth mentioning as something to consider. Throw in some hills and tough walking and it would probably really frustrate someone like Bill.

In my personal experience, I can honestly say that I’ve never really seen where a slower or older guy has been a big issue. As the judge, you might start heading to the trees sooner that you would otherwise. Maybe stopping along the way a few more times than normal. No big deal, is it? It’s being considerate and I think they’ll appreciate and respect you for your consideration. Walking along with Bill the other night made me think of another good suggestion. How easy would it be to simply walk alongside that handler? Now you’re maintaining his pace and you might not even think it’s that slow. At least that’s the thought that came to my mind that night. Just a suggestion that might be worth considering.

Many of our older hunters have been a part of this sport since before some of us had wet ears. Surely, we can be considerate enough to give them a little break allowing them to enjoy the hunts as long as they can do so without hindering their cast mates too much. Think about it. All of us may very well be in their shoes one day. A little respect and consideration for the older hunters will go a long way.

Finally, it is the judge’s responsibility to enforce Rule 9 (c). It was implemented for a dang good reason. Intentionally, dragging behind is for another topic and another day. This one is about being a good sportsman/woman and doing the right thing and giving our elders due consideration and respect.

---

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Registered: Feb 2014
Location:
Posts: 129

quote:

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Originally posted by BEST EVER
Huh, never seen in the rules slow pokes should be scratched. The judge is the one that should be moving and stopping during the five to keep as close and he can so once again it comes back to the rule, cast must stay to together. We wonder why numbers is down, back in the day would not have blinked an eye, beat the judge to the tree, scratched. Future state, many are banning together to get this enforced. Some think they can walk on fellow hunters and continue to get by with it, more than likely they have dog issues, either off the tree, maybe a little to rough and may just say your hound was of the tree, three pretty darn good reasons. And we want more younger people to start hunting, set the right example.

There are many older real coon hunters that have stopped going to the hunts due to this fact. If you want more of them to attend back the ones that do question this issue and scratch the ones abusing this rule and make sure the older ones carry the cards, more older hunters that one would think!They too like to enjoy the hunt!

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Registered: Jul 2009
Location: INDIANA
Posts: 2878

Great post UKC and very well put!

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Registered: Mar 2009
Location: tn
Posts: 667

I used to be high speed, until I left half of a leg in the desert. Now I am a little slower. I am not looking for sympathy from anyone, but nothing ticks me off faster than the rest of the cast being at the top of the hill waiting on me and when I get there find that they have all treed their dogs, because they were able to hear from that vantage point. Or as soon as I get there they take off again, cause they had time to catch their breath. Really I and others like me are not asking for much, just a fair shake. My dog may not be as good as others, but my entry fee is. For those that think that us slower folks should quit hunting, well you may be a quitter but I ain't.

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Registered: May 2017
Location: West Plains Mo
Posts: 471

I had dog treed alone at winter classic for 45 min at least. Judge drug his feet getting to tree. I still won my cast but was lil short of placing. That extra 30 min or so could made difference between driving MS for good time or placing. No one older in cast to have walk slower pace. Our local club has some good hounds and good comp hunters but I don't ever hardly see a judge bending rules at local hunts. Go to big hunt and it's always a prob.

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Registered: Oct 2013
Location: Maryland
Posts: 2633

quote:

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Originally posted by Vic Stoll
Define a "normal" or "attainable" pace

That human interpretation thing again! Dang it!

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Registered: Mar 2016
Location:
Posts: 110

Iv got drawn out with a really older guy and i fill sorry for the guy he loves to hunt and comp hunt and he really dose have a bad knee and cant get around that great and ever one espically me waits on this guy but i have seen him get first tree or tree buy his self and he takes no time getting to the tree but u get first tree on him and he really drags around u can tell a big difference in his walking ability then lol i guess win he gets that first tree it makes his knee pain go away from the adrenalin lol

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