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Brown Jack
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Registered: Dec 2016
Location: Darkside
Posts: 42

quote:
Originally posted by joey
My gyp has a thyroid issue. I have owned or hunted with almost every dog in her pedigree. Trust me there was no performance enhancing drugs used by any of them.

Joey did your female have high or low level? And what was her symptoms that caused you to have her checked ? And how did the meds help

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joey
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Registered: Jun 2012
Location: McRae Ar
Posts: 3701

quote:
Originally posted by Brown Jack
Joey did your female have high or low level? And what was her symptoms that caused you to have her checked ? And how did the meds help

It was a .6 no symptoms that I had noticed, we were checking her to breed her. The meds didn't help her. I thought about it long and hard. She is a really nice gyp but we had her fixed.

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03-01-2017 02:27 AM

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Doug Terrell
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Registered: Dec 2010
Location: Georgetown, Ohio.
Posts: 1928

quote:
Originally posted by joey
It was a .6 no symptoms that I had noticed, we were checking her to breed her. The meds didn't help her. I thought about it long and hard. She is a really nice gyp but we had her fixed.

Most honest answer is have heard from 1 that has had it.
You mean it didn't cause her to run all night and not get treed.. or cause her to make 15 slick trees each night, like it does everyone else that I hear about.. lol
I think you done the right thing by having her fixed also. Jmo

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JiM
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Registered: Sep 2010
Location: New Paris, Indiana
Posts: 7076

quote:
Originally posted by Pat Bizich
Okay people, as promised here is some more good reading information on diet (DOG FOOD) related thyroid issues in dogs.I wanted to copy and paste but did not know if I should.

PLEASE READ IT THROUGHLY!!!!

http://truthaboutpetfood.com/diet-r...yperthyroidism/

For the adventuresome go to the home page. .Go through the information page by page that is available.
Excellent reading.

I have never considered truthaboutdogfood to be credible imformation.

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Pat Bizich
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quote:
Originally posted by JiM
I have never considered truthaboutdogfood to be credible imformation.

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion.
I cited it because it is a collection of information on one site that I in fact have found to be credible .
The articles are not opinions in most cases but cite facts that I have already proof read from Veterinary pages or other sources.
Most of the articles I have saved on my PC from other sites agree with their information.

Like I previously stated use it as you want.I am putting this out there for everyone to see to use it or reject it.

The dog food industry is in the billions of dollars.
The dirty secrets of what they put in our dog food angers me to no end. In the name of low cost and high profits.
I can't even begin to put it into words.
What does it cost us as dog owners in Vet bills??

I had a great little dog die of Kidney failure 1 1/2 years ago .
She was very healthy and the Vet was at a loss as to why she even developed it.
There are a multitude of ingredients that have been outlawed in the use of human food that is put into our dog feed that has shown to cause cancer or multiple organ damage with long term use.
Where do you think this testing is done? IN LABS ON ANIMALS!!!!

I am still angry and disgusted that I somehow caused my poor hounds Kidney failure because of the feed I was using.

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03-02-2017 01:37 AM

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joey
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Registered: Jun 2012
Location: McRae Ar
Posts: 3701

Pat, what is keeping you from feeding a raw diet? Its fairly easy to do.

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03-02-2017 06:20 AM

Pat Bizich
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quote:
Originally posted by joey
Pat, what is keeping you from feeding a raw diet? Its fairly easy to do.

Finding a reliable source for a good meat .
I thought it would also be nice to have a commercial grade grinder when you mix the ingredients.
They are way expensive unless you can pick one up at an auction.
I read you went to a home made feed.
Maybe you can explain what and how you are doing it.
__________________________________________

I do have some good news here.
I have 4 females.Different breeds and background.
None have been cycling properly in last 2 1/2 years.
Trial and error .Running tests ,I am currently feeding THREE DIFFERENT FEEDS. Yes that is right THREE!!!

Two days a go after 6 weeks on a different brand .One is coming into heat and it looks to be it is going to be as it should be.
26/18 H+++ S+++++++ .

I have also had more then one person tell me they have never had an issue with a particular feed.
One even related to me how he had been using it but switched because the price was getting a little high.After he switched he started having problems with his females heat cycles.
That feed I am saying may be one to try is black bag B++++G+++

THE UFO'S ARE CIRCLING MY PLACE EVERY NIGHT NOW!!!

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03-02-2017 06:06 PM

joey
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Registered: Jun 2012
Location: McRae Ar
Posts: 3701

We have a grocery store called edwards cash savers. You can get 40lb of leg quarters for $10. I feed mine 2 legs 1 thigh, 1 can of jack mackerel, 2 eggs in the shell and 3 tea spoons of Norwegian kelp. He looks great and I got $1.10 a day in his feed. No need to grind anything, you want them to eat the bones and all. I went over all of it with my vet and he liked what I was feeding. I have been feeding him a whole rabbit once a week and some beef once every 2 weeks. I do not have to worry about what they are putting in my dog food. It takes about 3 min to prepare.

He has almost stopped drinking water, he gets what he needs from the feed. I just got back from the vet because he caught a coon on the ground last night that was meaner than he was. He said he looks great. I have them on concrete, I'm feeding my gyp science diet and she empties out twice a day. The male on the raw diet might go once a day and its small. It turns white the next day and crumbles up like powder.

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03-02-2017 06:54 PM

joey
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Registered: Jun 2012
Location: McRae Ar
Posts: 3701

I get cases of damaged cans for 60 cents a can. The mackerel is not a must, just use more chicken quarters.

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03-02-2017 09:13 PM

joey
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Registered: Jun 2012
Location: McRae Ar
Posts: 3701

What has really surprised me is that he hardly drinks water. I wasn't expecting that. I'm thinking he will hold up to the heat a lot better, if the dog food is not pulling so much of the moisture out of his body.

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03-02-2017 10:15 PM

Rocketman55
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Registered: Aug 2008
Location: SE Ohio, Glouster
Posts: 2244

Dogs and heat cycles and so forth.

Just wanted to let folks know that after reading several posts about these type issues I want to tell you my little story.

I have fed this particular dog food for about 5-7 years. Upon doing so I seen my female go from good heat cycles to different types of cycles (intermittent) so to speak. I got her second litter from her at 8 yrs of age. This female I now am running is out of my old female and had been on this particular dog food from the womb till she was 25 months old. as of that date she had never ran a heat cycle. I took her off that dog food I was feeding and switched her to Pride dog food from August/September till Jan/Feb of 2018. Sometime in Feb of this year I started feeding some Sportmix mixed with regular Purina Dog Chow and have been feeding that for the past month to 6 weeks.

Today, just 9 days shy of this female being 33 months old, this female is coming into what looks to be a normal heat cycle. Good swelling, and beginning to drip. This is her 1st heat cycle EVER. Not saying that my original dog food caused this problem but only saying that within 6/7 months of me taking the advice of some folks on here, and me changing dog foods as recommended by some on here, this female has finally ran her 1st heat cycle.

Her littermate sister, owned by my nephew, has been on a totally separate dog food than I have been feeding and has cycles 4 times already.

Thanks for reading, I sure appreciate what others have posted as I had thought this may have been the end of the line for these hounds I have been breeding since the mid to late 70's.

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Pat Bizich
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Registered: May 2004
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Posts: 1278

Thanks for the info .I am very happy to hear it helped you.

I have been reluctant to do any up dates on my own situation.Get tired of the negative comments.
As I posted previously ,I been researching this issue for over 3 years. Trial and error takes along time because you have to wait for the heat cycle .Then they are either still shortened or non existent and you got to try another plan.
It just started all coming together in the last 1 1/2 years .
I have close to a 100 saved searches relating to dog feed and chemicals in it that are known to cause problems.

One guy that took my advice ,changed feeds, had his female come in and was successfully bred. He has since had another cycle properly.

My female that I had given up hope came in heat 3 times in 8 months. She had what is called a split heat and was successfully bred. She just turned 7 years old and this was the first good heat since she was 2 1/2 years old. She then came into heat 6 months a few days after she whelped.
She has never in her life came in at 6 month intervals until now .

I am raising a pup here that just came in heat at 9 1/2 months old. It has been literally many years since I have had a female pup come in heat before they were 1 year old. Most not coming in until they are 2 or more .
I raised this litter she was out of for a guy. So I was able to adhere to a feed that met what I wanted.

I do have a female that still has not cycled. Although I have no intentions of breeding her, I fear that as the vet study I provided earlier proved relationship of feed and thyroid damage, she may have a damaged thyroid from the feed I was using.

Another thing that really is bothersome. As a buyer of any pup .You are at the mercy of what the breeder has chosen to feed when raising a litter.
If the vet study is to be believed in any capacity then the pup can very well already have a damaged thyroid when you purchased it at 8 weeks old.

Can't argue with success(some still will) I have achieved as well as others here on the board that are slowly updating that the feed change is working for them.

Last edited by Pat Bizich on 04-02-2018 at 04:38 AM

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04-02-2018 01:47 AM

Pat Bizich
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Registered: May 2004
Location: northeast
Posts: 1278

quote:
Originally posted by coonbone
Listed below is the ingredients for Sportmix High Energy mini chuink blue bag:

Chicken By-Product Meal, Ground Yellow Corn, Meat Meal, Ground Wheat, Chicken Fat (preserved with mixed Tocopherols), Dried Beet Pulp, Fish Meal, Flaxseed, Salt, Vitamin A Supplement, Vitamin D3 Supplement, Vitamin E Supplement, Riboflavin Supplement, D-Calcium Pantothenate, Niacin Supplement, Choline Chloride, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Folic Acid, Thiamine Mononitrate, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Biotin, Calcium Iodate, Copper Sulfate, Ferrous Sulfate, Manganous Oxide, Zinc Oxide, Magnesium Oxide.

I thought meat meal, and fish meal where bad ingredients. What am I missing here?

FISHMEAL...Not only has iodine levels that vary from batch to batch [conclusive amounts can not be quoted] .It contains the highly controversial preservative Ethoxyquin. Allow it in your dog feed you are using as to YOUR OWN TOLERANCE TO RISK!!

http://ottawavalleydogwhisperer.blo...-danger-do.html

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17133828

https://www.dogfoodadvisor.com/foru...hypothyroidism/

Ethoxyquin 6-ethoxy-1,2-dihydro-2,2,4-trimethylquinoline. Antioxidant; also a post-harvest dip to prevent scald on apples and pears.
Originally developed by Monsanto as a stabilizer for rubber, Ethoxyquin has also been used as a pesticide for fruit and a color preservative for spices, and later for animal feed. The original FDA permit for use as stabilizer in animal feed limited use to two years and did not include pet food, but it falls under the same legal category. It has never been proven to be safe for the lifespan of a companion animal.It has been linked to thyroid, kidney, reproductive and immune related illnesses as well as cancer, but so far no conclusive, reliable research results either for the safety of this product or against it have not been obtained. Monsanto conducted research years ago, but results were so inconclusive due to unprofessional conduct and documentation that the FDA demanded another study. There are currently several studies underway to determine whether Ethoxyquin is safe or not, and until those studies are completed, pet food suppliers may continue to use Ethoxyquin. This is how things stand after about 6 years, and no new details have emerged so far

Last edited by Pat Bizich on 04-04-2018 at 04:32 AM

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04-04-2018 03:39 AM

Pat Bizich
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The first 5 ingredients in all feeds are what are the most important. You are going to find fishmeal in almost all dog food anymore. But there are still feeds that do not use it. The lower it is on the ingredient list the less significant .I found one feed it was like 10th.
It is suppose to provide omega's which have never been proven essential to be in a dogs diet, and a very cheap added source of protein. Also of course the unknown addition of iodine which cannot be accurately recorded because of the inconsistency from batch to batch .
I am not saying that Fishmeal itself can be blamed as the total culprit in adding significant amounts of iodine but rather a cumulative total with the other ingredients and iodates that are added to the feed.
I personally am more highly concerned with the preservative Ethoxyquin and heavy metals it contains.
Myself I am avoiding it.
But if some have found success with feed that contains it while getting their females to cycle ,I guess you count your blessings and take what you can get.

Think about this though.
Your dog has no choice as you feed it the same feed everyday.
The preservative for fishmeal ,Ethoxyquin , was banned from use in human food. We are told to only consume fish products 2 times a week because of mercury and other heavy metals found in fish yet we feed this to our dogs 7 days a week/365 days a year.

Last edited by Pat Bizich on 04-04-2018 at 04:56 AM

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04-04-2018 04:01 AM

coonbone
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Pat, sent you a pm.

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04-04-2018 04:56 AM

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Pat Bizich
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Registered: May 2004
Location: northeast
Posts: 1278

Thought I would post a picture of a local feed I stumbled onto by accident. This is real basic feed like the old days .
Lots of vitamins added with no extra iodates, chemicals ,bha , or other chemical preservatives
I wish it had more fat ,but that is easily fixed .
And the animal digest(that I swore off) is made up of chicken and liver .I can live with that.
This feed was bought for 11.00 a 40 LB bag delivered.
What do you all think?

Last edited by Pat Bizich on 04-17-2018 at 04:42 PM

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04-17-2018 04:39 PM

Pat Bizich
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This past week I was once again surprised and rewarded for my efforts.
Another 9 1/2 month old female I am raising came into heat.
It has been virtually years since I have had any female cycle before reaching 2 years old.
Now I have had 2 in the last month.
Two different breeds at 9 1/2 months.

I believe I may be on to something and in my mind succeeded in proving the dog food as part of the heat cycle issue. Maybe not 100% on every dog but a lot of them .
I urge anyone having problems to at least try switching dog feed brands that have as least amount of iodates or ingredients with extra iodine. Also eliminating a lot of the other garbage like animal digest(from unknown origin) ,Fish meal, and other un-needed added chemicals.
It is nearly impossible and will take dedication to track them down in some areas. I truly now believe I was correct all along .It just took time for me to prove it .
MY OWN PERSONAL RESULTS ARE FACT .

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04-22-2018 09:06 PM

Pat Bizich
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The dog feed I listed in my above post.I am currently also testing.Haven't had it long enough for honest opinion yet.
At first glance it looks bad. But really read it. Just vitamins are added. NO CHEMICALS.NO EXTRA IODATES.NO YEAST( it causes dog allergies).I would like more fat but I am thinking I will be adding some corn oil daily for the fat.
Just good old fashion dog feed. I have noticed less water consumption and everyone always wants to know about the stool. Small compact. And so far the dogs seem to like it.

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04-22-2018 09:16 PM

4play
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Registered: Mar 2015
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Posts: 1930

quote:
Originally posted by Pat Bizich
The dog feed I listed in my above post.I am currently also testing.Haven't had it long enough for honest opinion yet.
At first glance it looks bad. But really read it. Just vitamins are added. NO CHEMICALS.NO EXTRA IODATES.NO YEAST( it causes dog allergies).I would like more fat but I am thinking I will be adding some corn oil daily for the fat.
Just good old fashion dog feed. I have noticed less water consumption and everyone always wants to know about the stool. Small compact. And so far the dogs seem to like it.

Can You PM me the new kind your trying?
Might see if I can find it local myself.
Thanks!

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04-23-2018 02:47 PM

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Ron Jackson
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Please Pat. I too would like to know . Thank you! Ron Jackson

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04-23-2018 04:42 PM

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joey
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Registered: Jun 2012
Location: McRae Ar
Posts: 3701

Pat, when your trouble shooting something you eliminate everything you can first. Hounds especially walkers are ranked high on the list for a hereditary problem with their thyroid. A test for autoimmune antibodies will tell us if it is hereditary in a couple of days time and then allow us to concentrate on outside factors. Or understand that we have a breed problem.

The issue with the way you are doing it is it allows for a lot of anecdotal evidence to creep in. You try something and it appears to work and you think its figured out, but its not. We have a huge problem but we need to know what we are fighting before we start fighting with it. I'm having mine tested. When I find out I will let you know. If everyone else will do the same it would help but I doubt they will. No one wants anyone knowing their dog has a genetic problem. I hope that mine does not, but if he doesn't its not the dog food for him.

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04-23-2018 05:05 PM

Pat Bizich
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Joey.Appreciate comments.So let me address them.
My first sentence was ...Quote"I believe I may be on to something and in my mind succeeded in proving the dog food as part of the heat cycle issue. Maybe not 100% on every dog but a lot of them ."unquote
Note I said part of the problem and maybe not 100 % for every dog.
So I recognize that the feed issue will not work for everyone. It should be a consideration.
Perhaps I should have added to first get your dogs checked for tick diseases to eliminate that variable.
Also just because a dogs thyroid test is low does not still rule out dog feed as the problem.Remember excessive dietary iodine can cause hypothyroidism.

You stated to eliminate everything you can first.
I know you can't be expected to remember all my previous posts on the subject, especially when some of them have gone "POOF !"
I did seek to eliminate variables.I tested for lymes and had thyroid levels checked .I thought of water,kennels,tie out,allergies.Name it. They were all considered.
I did not just get an epiphany and start these posts.
About 3-4 years ago I started looking for an answer.I even started a post about 3 years ago asking for replies trying to eliminate variables. Did not get the responses I desired but I kept plugging. I spent 100's of hours researching until I would get sick of reading. You should see my favorites bar and documents. I got so many saved articles from my research.
I am giving people on this board a chance to benefit and at least try based on all my time I spent and extending it out to help others.

How can you say my research is "anecdotal evidence" DEF;"not necessarily true or reliable, because based on personal accounts rather than facts or research."?
Read my first post on this thread. The research is plainly posted proving thyroid damage from excessive iodine in our dog feeds in control groups .All I have done is proven this to in fact be a variable to consider in my testing of certain feeds.
We could say my personal account has now taken on a factual or true account based on my limiting the iodine containing ingredients in feed I am using and the results achieved when no other changes were made. Proving the posted veterinary study has validity.
Additionally other persons I have counseled with the same issues have suddenly gotten their females to cycle and successfully bred their females.
So it is not just my accounts but others too.

I agree we have a huge problem. You know what? Based on my research, this is not confined to our hounds.This is a world wide problem. All breeds and types effected. And cats too.
It has gotten worse in the last 10 or so years .
Funny it is just since they have begun adding more Fishmeal as a main ingredient and increased the allowable iodine levels in our dog feeds.(This is my opinion but it sure is a coincidence) "BASED" on the European amounts "AND" they were having problems before we did in this country.

I am not an animal feed nutritionist but,by gosh I can read and think and reason. And I don't like what I have found out about these feeds we are being sold for our dogs.

I even went back looking up old dog feed labels trying to see how they have evolved in the past 30 years.
Nothing but meat ,cereal products. And LOL horse meat.None of these added iodates and other chemicals in the old feeds .They are being added in our current feed under the guise of making the feed more healthy for our dogs when all they really are is a way to dispose of by products of producing human food.
Really, you want an eye opening experience. Look up old dog food labels.
They laughed at Columbus ,Fulton and others because they thought outside the normal beliefs of their days.
People that know me know I am a persistent son-of-gun.I am always doing things that aren't normal.LOL.

Last edited by Pat Bizich on 04-23-2018 at 11:21 PM

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04-23-2018 10:51 PM

joey
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Believe me I'm not arguing with any of your finding and I appreciate what you have done. I just know they are telling us its a huge hereditary problem. I want to eliminate that from the process and then if that is not the problem look for outside factors. Like what you have found. The thing is we will have to let each other know and I do not see that happening. I'm supposed to wait 45 days from the time you give them a rabies shot. I got 2 weeks left and I will have him checked. He is on a raw diet but has not always been. If it isn't hereditary and not his dog food about all I have left is his flee/tick and wormer.

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04-23-2018 11:30 PM

berger
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Location: Lockridge Iowa
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quote:
Originally posted by Pat Bizich
The dog feed I listed in my above post.I am currently also testing.Haven't had it long enough for honest opinion yet.
At first glance it looks bad. But really read it. Just vitamins are added. NO CHEMICALS.NO EXTRA IODATES.NO YEAST( it causes dog allergies).I would like more fat but I am thinking I will be adding some corn oil daily for the fat.
Just good old fashion dog feed. I have noticed less water consumption and everyone always wants to know about the stool. Small compact. And so far the dogs seem to like it.

If you are adding corn oil would vegetable oil work just as well?

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04-24-2018 01:27 AM

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Pat Bizich
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Corn oil is actually better.It has a buttery flavor which your dog will like .
Vegetable oil is made with soybeans and other things. Something I have attempted to eliminate in the diet.

"Corn Oil has only the sole flavor of the corn and the nutrients of the corn in the form of the oil, whereas vegetable oil is of various kinds and flavors as it is made from the different vegetables like soybean and sunflower."

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04-24-2018 01:58 AM

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