Registered: Jan 2017
Location: mccomb, ms
Posts: 181

quote:

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Originally posted by nextcoonhunters
Yes a bad deal but I think the moh tried to resolve it best he could. What was your point spread at this point?

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My gut just says there is more to this story !! The thing to have been done on a scratching offense would have been to call time and take it to the moh right then. And they would have known before they cut a withdrawn dog loose that I wasent going for it. Time would have been put on that non working dog instantly.



But that’s just me.


Tar

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If that was an honest mistake by a judge he has no business carrying a scorecard. Having said that turning his dog loose to get another dog to go wasn't. benefiting him any so if he cheated to benefit somebody else they both should have the same fate.

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quote:

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Originally posted by yadkintar
My gut just says there is more to this story !! The thing to have been done on a scratching offense would have been to call time and take it to the moh right then. And they would have known before they cut a withdrawn dog loose that I wasent going for it. Time would have been put on that non working dog instantly.



But that’s just me.


Tar

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quote:

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Originally posted by gpent24
I promise i made my case that i told them before the dog was cut loose that what they were doing was wrong and i told them before they did it if they did it i was questioning it to write the time down. I was very civil. I never cussed or yelled or anything. There really wasn't more to the story than what i have put in this thread.

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quote:

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Originally posted by yadkintar
Ok let’s go deep undercover lol. How did the handler of the dog that did not get scratched explain to the moh why he was innocent enough of the crime in question and not deserving of being scratched.


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quote:

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Originally posted by gpent24
because technically there is no rule for voting for another cast member to break a rule that benefits your dog.

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quote:

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Originally posted by yadkintar
My gut just says there is more to this story !! The thing to have been done on a scratching offense would have been to call time and take it to the moh right then. And they would have known before they cut a withdrawn dog loose that I wasent going for it. Time would have been put on that non working dog instantly.



But that’s just me.


Tar

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The moh should have had the judge's thyroid levels checked and the judge shouldn't have eaten that much protein before a big hunt like this. I'm sure that's what was wrong with him. Lol again bad break but nothing can be done now

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A lot of work went into these rules closing the grey areas and loopholes. They are absolutely the best rules in the business. If you read the back of the card there is a logical solution for every senerio.


Tar

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Posts: 149

Yea I didn't even think about the encouraging rule. So its covered in Rule 9 showing favor by a judge & Rule 6 under encouraging...So funny how many attorneys pop up in defense of anyone who deserves to be punished for cheating. Not clearly defined my butttttt! Also funny how the focus is on the man who got cheated and what he did or didn't do. He is supposed to not whine or say anything, turn the other cheek. Get a better dog...Train harder...Bad Break...When getting cheated in a UKC Licensed event by the Judge of the cast is deemed a bad break and the guy who takes the problem to the MOH is the one getting grilled I ask all of you what has or is your sport coming to...probably some of the same ones complaining that the sport is dying with low participation...This kind of thing could possibly cause a young hunter to totally get out of competition. Especially when the cheating is overlooked as a bad break... I guess all the teams the ASTROS cheated just got a bad break...I am definitely not a Yankee fan and I pull against them every game. But they got CHEATED by a greedy, low down, sorry good for nothing organization. And every player involved will get away with it because of our tolerance for this type of behavior..I say this again, This Judge who openly discussed & then turned his withdrawn hound off his lead after being leashed for several minutes while two other hounds were on the clock to help one of the hounds avoid being scratched is a cheater and broke the rules knowingly with obvious intent should be brought before a UKC board to answer questions. When he took that card he took on the responsibility that goes along with it...

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quote:

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Originally posted by Redneck Mafia
Rules... there is no way that rules can cover every situation that you may come into. What these 2 cast did is a blatant violation of what the term "honor rules" should mean BUT as far as the black and white written rules there is not one that covers it. You can go into handler misconduct which loosely applies but unfortunately really doesn't fit into the definition. I think the MOH essentially just considered the judges dog to be ineligible to hunt after withdrawing and therefore scratched him but there was no rule to scratch the other handler/dog.
Sorry I wish there was something more. Sometimes winning is all to important to some individuals but karma has a way of eventually finding them.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Redneck Mafia
Rules... there is no way that rules can cover every situation that you may come into. What these 2 cast did is a blatant violation of what the term "honor rules" should mean BUT as far as the black and white written rules there is not one that covers it. You can go into handler misconduct which loosely applies but unfortunately really doesn't fit into the definition. I think the MOH essentially just considered the judges dog to be ineligible to hunt after withdrawing and therefore scratched him but there was no rule to scratch the other handler/dog.
Sorry I wish there was something more. Sometimes winning is all to important to some individuals but karma has a way of eventually finding them.

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quote:

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Originally posted by gpent24
no my dog was not struck in when we left tree. So we followed the walk an acceptable distance off the tree and recut dog. yes tree was deleted. yes was supposed to go hunt the 12 minutes and i withdrew instead of going back to woods. my dog checked their tree when they treed so therefore them doing that interfered with the whole end of the cast.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Dpenton
I have been comp hunting for 25 years. Not in the big time but local and only a few big hunts. I think the issue here is really being missed. The dog Garret was hunting was mine. Ted is a COON DOG not a comp dog. He is a last strike , first tree, usually alone male. He is a little slow to tree but will usually have a coon and handles like a dream. He is my dog and I feed him and he suites me. He wasn’t in shape for a big hunt because he was a fill in for his daughter who came in heat a week earlier.

The reason you have an honor rule is this. Not all rules can be comprehensive enough to cover every situation. Soooo you have another rule that basically says “ and any other shady stuff that will be thought up on the fly” and that is the case here.

We don’t have banners made up for our dogs or put up tents for them we hunt them. Garret has been in the woods with coon dogs his entire life. He has been taught sportsmanship. No one and I mean no one should win a hunt by any act that gives them an unfair advantage. That being said I am done and we will keep hunting and breeding dogs that we feel good about when we pour out the feed and when we unsnap the lead! Safe Hunting guys!

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If hunting judge's dog gets scratched he may continue as a non-hunting judge or pass the card to another member of the cast to complete the hunt...probably his buddy who he cheated for...so I don't blame the guy for not going back out for 12 minutes to finish out. He probably wanted to get as far away from those cats as possible...

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quote:

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Originally posted by yadkintar
A lot of work went into these rules closing the grey areas and loopholes. They are absolutely the best rules in the business. If you read the back of the card there is a logical solution for every senerio.


Tar

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quote:

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Originally posted by Redneck Mafia
The MOH tried to give him the last 12 minutes which is the time left from when the extra dog was cut loose. He scratched the judges dog because it was ineligible to compete after being withdrawn and deleted the tree involved. There is not a rule that would allow the scratching of the other dog/handler. From an officials stand point he did all he could do end of story. You could have appealed it to a panel and when they ruled the same on to UKC but the outcome would have been the same. As I mentioned in my first post karma will catch them eventually.
You should have went back out for the last 12. That was the recourse given to you to rectify the situation and you should have used it.

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Club Information
Club Name:
Location: Date of Incident:
Event Official:
UKC MisconductComplaint Form
Misconduct Complaint Procedures:
This form is only to be used for Category 1 Misconduct which includes wrongdoing during or associated with a UKC licensed event. This may include, but is not limited to, threatening, assaulting or battering another individual; falsifying
any event-related documents; cheating or conspiring to cheat in order to improve the standing of any dog competing
at an event; abusing or neglecting a dog in conjunction with an event. This form is not to be used for hunt or event
rule interpretation discrepancies. Please refer to the UKC Misconduct Rules for other categories of misconduct.
Instructions
Section 1 is required to be completed by the complainant:
1. The complainant’s name;
2. The complainant’s address;
3. The complainant’s daytime and evening phone numbers;
4. A complete factual description of the exact conduct alleged to have occurred, including the identity of all
witnesses, other persons, and dogs involved in the alleged misconduct; and,
5. If known and applicable, the specific sections of the pertinent UKC rulebook which have allegedly been violated.
Sections 2 and 3 are to be completed by the Host Club.
Section 1 C



This form is on the UKC Home Page. Click on Hunting OPs then coonhounds then scroll down to Forms & Rules and it is at the bottom. So in UKC's defense they have a process in place for anyone to file a formal complaint when they have been cheated in a Licensed event..This should go higher than just the guys running the Classic.

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UKC Standard Of Conduct
United Kennel Club events are intended to be family-oriented recreation for dog enthusiasts and their UKCregistered dogs. Accordingly, UKC expects the highest standard of conduct at these events. Misconduct is
defined as behavior or actions that are not in the best interest of the sport of purebred dogs. Conduct considered prejudicial to the sport of purebred dogs is any action or behavior that could cause an average, reasonable person or family to be offended or potentially repelled from the sport of purebred dogs; i.e., conduct
incompatible with a family friendly environment.
There are three general categories of misconduct:
Category 1. Wrongdoing during or associated with a UKC Licensed event. This may include, but is not limited
to, threatening, assaulting or battering another individual; falsifying any event-related document; cheating
or conspiring to cheat in order to improve the standing of any dog competing at an event; abusing or neglecting a dog in conjunction with an event; abuse of motel rooms by dogs or persons attending the events;
and any other UKC event rule infraction.
Category 2. Violation of UKC policies, procedures, or rules. This may include, but is not limited to, falsification
of UKC registration papers; misidentification of a dog or the parentage of a dog; or non-eventrelated abuse
or neglect of dogs.
Category 3. Uttering a payment with non-sufficient funds. This category refersto paying entry fees via a check
with non-sufficient funds in the account, the use of a debit or credit card that is declined, forged or invalid
money orders, or other forms of payment where an exhibitor’s entry fees remain unpaid after competing.
Procedures For Handling Misconduct During Or Associated With A UKC Licensed Event Covered
By This Rulebook (Misconduct Category 1)

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UKC is looking into this matter appropriately. We'll be considering the direct information presented by all involved before making conclusions or determining whether or not further action is necessary.

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