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Dave Richards
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Apr 2015
Location: church hill tn
Posts: 3272

Reuben

So the very best dog you have owned was a cross bred dog! I guess that quantifies my post about this subject matter. Even though you never used him in your breeding program due to being related to your other dogs, he was your best dog ever. Now this is just what some of these guys cross breeding today are trying to accomplish, has nothing to do with them starting a new breeding program. We all want to get the best we can, or should. Some say you may only get one good one out if a litter, that's better than what we are averaging now, I mean a good one and not average. Breeding coondog to coondog should be the goal in any breeding program, not average to average breeding. NO, I am not a breeder, nor do I desire to be one. I don't build cars either, but I have been driving for 54 years. I don't make guns either, but own a bunch. I know what a coondog is and isn't, being a breeder does not make one smarter, if anything a breeder can become blind to his own stock. Dave

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Dave Richards Treeing Walkers Reg American Saddlebred and Registered Rocky Mt. Show Horses

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Old Post 09-15-2019 01:13 AM
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yadkintar
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jan 2013
Location: Marietta
Posts: 9335

I been eating for 61 yrs now I am fat I learned well lol. Well me and Jen was talking the other day and of course you know there are people in this world that have a thirst to learn. In my younger years because I had no education my life was fast paced and I learned every life lesson the hard way. Now after retirement I have a thirst to learn I read daily nearly everthing I can get my hands on. Dave a book that is written by a persons whole life experiences is a valuable learning tool as long as the one reading it does it with an open mind. I donít agree with everything I read and I might even give my opinion but it canít take away the credit that person deserves for staying true to their beliefs no matter what others think.


I started typing 6 years ago you probly seen some of that mess it still ainít perfect but I am still learning.


Tar

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Old Post 09-15-2019 01:28 AM
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Reuben
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Nov 2011
Location: Freeport,TX
Posts: 767

Yes he was my very best dog...the cowdog sire might of been smart and a decent hog dog...even though his sires side was a combination hog and cow dog his dam was a really nice mt cur and there were some good ones on her side...her uncle was a really good one as well so I think the best probably came from her side and he looked pure mt cur and barked on track...nothing like black mouth cur...he was exciting to watch and hunt...exiting even at less than 4 months...I seen him do some pretty awesome things at 8 weeks or so and he always led his siblings on a drag at 8 weeks or so and older...and just as he lead the pack around at 8 weeks old he also did it that way as a grown up...the first time I saw him...

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Training dogs is not so much about quantity, it's more about timing, and the right situations...After that it's up to the dog....A hunting dog is born...

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Old Post 09-15-2019 02:06 AM
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Reuben
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Nov 2011
Location: Freeport,TX
Posts: 767

Yes he was my very best dog...the cowdog sire might of been smart and a decent hog dog...even though his sires side was a combination hog and cow dog his dam was a really nice mt cur and there were some good ones on her side...her uncle was a really good one as well so I think the best probably came from her side and he looked pure mt cur and barked on track...nothing like black mouth cur...he was exciting to watch and hunt...exiting even at less than 4 months...I seen him do some pretty awesome things at 8 weeks or so and he always led his siblings on a drag at 8 weeks or so and older...and just as he lead the pack around at 8 weeks old he also did it that way as a grown up...the first time I saw him...

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Training dogs is not so much about quantity, it's more about timing, and the right situations...After that it's up to the dog....A hunting dog is born...

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Old Post 09-15-2019 02:06 AM
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Craig Edwards
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Registered: Jul 2004
Location: Mt.Airy, N.C.
Posts: 3128

Would like to see Big Country win

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Dave Richards
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Apr 2015
Location: church hill tn
Posts: 3272

Craig

I want Cheyenne and Shack to win, if they don't win it, I would love to see Big Country win it all. Dave

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Dave Richards Treeing Walkers Reg American Saddlebred and Registered Rocky Mt. Show Horses

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Old Post 09-15-2019 02:23 AM
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Dave Richards
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Apr 2015
Location: church hill tn
Posts: 3272

Rueben

Seem you would have never experienced your best dog if you had not made that cross. How many dogs like yours have NOT been born due to a breeder staying "pure"? You never know what you look like if you don't stand in front of a mirror. It's these bold moves that pay off somtimes. A home run hitter strikes out more often than he hits a homer, but it sure feels good watching that ball sail out of the park. Dave

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Old Post 09-15-2019 02:36 AM
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yadkinriver
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Aug 2003
Location: Yadkin County NC
Posts: 1200

Dave

Didn't you say your once in a lifetime dog is a registered walker? I guess that qualifies my post about this subject matter.

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Old Post 09-15-2019 02:57 AM
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Dave Richards
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Apr 2015
Location: church hill tn
Posts: 3272

Tar

I admire any man that sticks to his values or beliefs unless he is just flat wrong and won't accept facts. You ever hear the old saying "to close to the tree to see the forest"? We all can get that way sometimes, but when we are wrong we should accept that fact. We can learn so much from each other's experiences if we look past our egos and open our minds. Dave

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Old Post 09-15-2019 03:02 AM
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Dave Richards
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Apr 2015
Location: church hill tn
Posts: 3272

Yadkinriver

No, afraid not, you must have assumed something that I did not say. I said the dog I currently own is a registered Walker and yes, he is one of the 3 dogs that I would call an exceptional coondog. However he is not the once in a lifetime dog, that dog was the cross bred grade dog, my first exceptional coondog and the best that I have ever seen. If we would have had a cross bred registration then with UKC , everyone would have known his name. He was pretty famous in this part of the country. I would and did hunt him against any man's dog that wanted to try their luck. NOW that's validates my reasoning, Ruby, Sambo, Trader and a whole list more add to my validation of cross breeding. How many exceptional coon dogs have you had out of your 40 years breeding PR Walkers? If you got a good enough female, Big Country will do his part and yes his owner will breed a Walker female. Dave

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Old Post 09-15-2019 03:30 AM
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Reuben
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Nov 2011
Location: Freeport,TX
Posts: 767

Re: Rueben

quote:
Originally posted by Dave Richards
Seem you would have never experienced your best dog if you had not made that cross. How many dogs like yours have NOT been born due to a breeder staying "pure"? You never know what you look like if you don't stand in front of a mirror. It's these bold moves that pay off somtimes. A home run hitter strikes out more often than he hits a homer, but it sure feels good watching that ball sail out of the park. Dave


I was planning to write a few stories about Yeller but family came visiting so lost momentum...lol

Iíll Just say a few things about Yeller....I have had some really good ones I feel I could put up against any dog and never worried if they would look bad...but I never felt compelled to write about them...on Yeller it never stopped nagging me to write about him and tell his story...I finally wrote about him in the Full Cry magazine one day...something just kept telling me Yellers story needed to be told... I do know he was the coldest nosed dog I owned and he used it to outstrike the other dogs...as an older dog he could take it easy when no hogs around...he learned to make a quick loop when unloading to hunt...if he came back in a little while you can bet their arenít any hogs around...and all dogs will be busy but when Yeller left out he was smelling hog and you can bet he will find them soon enough...he just knew how to play the game to win...

Dave...in trying to answer your questions...I cannot say for sure, but it seems him being a cross made him who he was...honestly once I saw his sire really hunt I would never of bred to him on account he couldnít compete with anything I had when it came to striking ability or sticking with the track no matter what...

I only bred Yeller once because I never felt he could give me the consistency I wanted...

For me a top ranked dog has it all...he has the hunt and the heritage within him to reproduce himself...I tend to gravitate towards being a breeder in mind...a well rounded dog in my eyes is one that can do it right in the woods and in the breeding pen...space is too valuable to keep too many dogs that canít do it all...itís a mindset...But Yeller could have any spot he wanted...he gave me way more than I could ever ask for...there is no way I could write about this type of dog unless I owned and hunted him...

You speaking of the homerun hitter...the great players...when the chips are down and the game is on the line...they make that outstanding play and it makes it our worthwhile to have seen and these outstanding plays last a lifetime in our minds eye...

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Training dogs is not so much about quantity, it's more about timing, and the right situations...After that it's up to the dog....A hunting dog is born...

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Old Post 09-15-2019 01:22 PM
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Dave Richards
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Apr 2015
Location: church hill tn
Posts: 3272

Rueben

I like your thinking, to bad you were not a coon hunter, I strongly suspect that you would have has some outstanding coon dogs. You exemplify the same desires that the founders of our breeds had. I have always wanted the best coondog I could get, a cross bred dig showed me what a coondog was supposed to be. I did not own him at the time, but I owned what I thought was a coondog. The man that owned him called and wanted me to go hunting with him, I went but did not take my dog that night. I watched a coondog perform that night, a exceptional dog that treed coons all night long and made it look easy. I knew then that I had to own that dog. The man knew how much I thought of that dog and later sold him to me. Buck was his name and he was the smartest dog I have ever seen. He was the measuring stick that I have used on every dog I have owned or hunted with. I was never satisfied with good after that, I knew there was better, fortunately I have managed to own 2 more dogs that were exceptional coon dogs, but I still liked him better. Dave

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Dave Richards Treeing Walkers Reg American Saddlebred and Registered Rocky Mt. Show Horses

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Old Post 09-15-2019 08:43 PM
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Reuben
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Nov 2011
Location: Freeport,TX
Posts: 767

Thank you...

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Training dogs is not so much about quantity, it's more about timing, and the right situations...After that it's up to the dog....A hunting dog is born...

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Old Post 09-15-2019 09:43 PM
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Dave Richards
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Apr 2015
Location: church hill tn
Posts: 3272

Rueben

I grew up in Kinspot Tenn. near the Virginia border look on the map, we wer close to North Carolina, Virginia, and Kentucky. I have hunted in all of these states and a bunch more. A lot of these mountain people depended on their dogs to put meat on the table, I was just a hunter who liked good dogs. I could go up in the mountains and just about everyone had tree dogs, most of these dogs were grade dogs, they did not care as long as these dogs got the job done. They hunted squirrels, groundhogs, possums, coons with the same dog. Some if these dogs are now what we know as mountain curs, treeing fiests, and some were hounds. They crossed all of these breeds together based on ability, there were few if any registered dogs. Performance was essential for these folks, papers meant nothing. Now, most folks are caught up on a set of papers first and performance has taken a back seat. Like some posters have commented, if we had to depend on our dogs to feed us, how many would be hunting what they have now? Dave

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Old Post 09-15-2019 10:28 PM
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Reuben
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Nov 2011
Location: Freeport,TX
Posts: 767

Yes sir on what you said...the mt curs as other breeds were all around meat dogs and bred based on performance and maybe possibly in type as per personal likes and function per what I have read...

As a kid I about hunted daily...a quick hunt before school or right after chores in the evening...but for sure on weekends and holidays...summertime i even hunted during farming lunch break...we usually worked most of day and took two hours lunch break when the farm was busy during harvest times...I ate lunch and hit the woods and brush and hunted during those times...

I hunted most ways with my mutts and caught lots of game...back then I just stepped out the house and called the dogs and they were ready to go...I learned where to go during droughts and also in floods...and what terrain was best for my mutts... I knew what the dogs were baying or running based on type of bay or running barks...

A snapping turtle or snake sounded the same...jack rabbit and deer was the same...rabbit was its own...etc

Feral cat and coon was the same...there were huge sets of rose hedges that can not be crossed and these were also used as cattle fences...if the game made it there I called the dogs off and moved on...the dogs operated with hand signals and whispers when stalking and they watched my body language and moved according to my demeanor and motions...once the setup was right I sent the dogs...we did this if the game was close to these hedges...we wanted to catch before the game made it to the rose hedges...
I alway had 3 or 4 mutts I hunted...the dog assignments went like this...one or two strike dogs of fiest type...one flush dog that went in to the smaller hedges and one lurcher type...all caught or helped...

I never thought much of it but as Iíve gotten older I realize this wasnít normal every day things that kids do on a day basis...

We even caught a few deer...I shot one once in a while with a 22 when needing meat and the dogs would run it down and catch it...always shot a smaller deer unless it was deer season...

Snakes...if it was smaller so not to be dangerous to my dogs...if it were small enough for dogs to handle...about 3.5 ft cottonmouths max length and my dogs would bay them and dodge the snake...zigging in and out...getting the timing down as the snake struck towards the dogs...I jumped in and out as well... I worked with the dogs side by side...once the dog liked the setup (when the snake stretched out when striking)he would grab the midsection and shake the snake hard while backing up slinging guts from both ends...

I have never really gone into detail on me hunting my dogs as a small kid or even how I did it...once I stepped into the hunt with my dogs I switched to predator mode and became one of them it seemed...

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Training dogs is not so much about quantity, it's more about timing, and the right situations...After that it's up to the dog....A hunting dog is born...

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Old Post 09-16-2019 12:29 AM
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Dave Richards
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Apr 2015
Location: church hill tn
Posts: 3272

Rueben

You are a true dog man, in a very good way. Hogs may be your quarry now, but you would have made a heck of a coon hunter. Those mountain folks I spoke about were just about like you described yourself. They had a special bond with their dogs, the whole family could tell you all you wanted to know about any dog they owned. I enjoyed visiting the mountain people and hunting or talking dogs, sometimes I got lucky and bought one of their good dogs. Mostly you could not buy their dog as they considered them part of their family. More than once, I was disappointed when my efforts to buy was turned down, the kids would cry even at the mention of selling "their" dog. Dave

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Dave Richards Treeing Walkers Reg American Saddlebred and Registered Rocky Mt. Show Horses

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