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In your opinion what is a natural Coon dog. Maybe he has a better nose than most dogs I had a dog in the early 90’s that treed coons other dogs wouldn’t even bark on. I just thought he had a colder nose. Another thing I read a lot on here is how good the dogs from the past were and how everyone wants old blood. I had old blood in 70,80, and 90’s. The dogs I hunt today I raised from puppies they are easier to train trash a lot less and listen better My dogs aren’t tree happy don’t babble (we had babblers and slick treeing dogs in the old blood also)and will trail a coon and tree it. I train a little different but I enjoy these hounds I have today as much if not more than the old blood.

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Pedigrees are a selling point to put a pup in the hands of a trainer and most now days will bark on track and tree. Most say that’s natural ability. Back in the day we had dogs that whole pedigrees were Pr dogs or grade one freind bred his female to his other freinds male because together they took 200 coons to the fur buyer and bought Christmas and paid bills for their family’s and they then took the pups from them and done the same. But if those pups could not produce coons during kill season they were taken out of the gene pool and the ones that proved them selves were taken to club hunts and buddy hunts maybe even titled. That’s the way I was brought up.


Tar

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So are you saying dogs today aren’t capable of achieving similar results with with similar training and hunting

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quote:

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Originally posted by dgwesley56
In your opinion what is a natural Coon dog. Maybe he has a better nose than most dogs I had a dog in the early 90’s that treed coons other dogs wouldn’t even bark on. I just thought he had a colder nose. Another thing I read a lot on here is how good the dogs from the past were and how everyone wants old blood. I had old blood in 70,80, and 90’s. The dogs I hunt today I raised from puppies they are easier to train trash a lot less and listen better My dogs aren’t tree happy don’t babble (we had babblers and slick treeing dogs in the old blood also)and will trail a coon and tree it. I train a little different but I enjoy these hounds I have today as much if not more than the old blood.

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I hear a lot about training a coon dog. You train them not to run trash, train them to come when called, train them to heel on lead, keep quiet in the box, etc. If you think you're going to train a dog how to hunt, run a track and locate the right tree and bark treed till you get there you're in for a lot of disappointment. The only coon dog worth keeping is the one that was born to be one. He or she is just waiting for a smart handler to bring out the best they were born with.

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Dan

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I agree

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Registered: Nov 2011
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quote:

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Originally posted by DL NH
I hear a lot about training a coon dog. You train them not to run trash, train them to come when called, train them to heel on lead, keep quiet in the box, etc. If you think you're going to train a dog how to hunt, run a track and locate the right tree and bark treed till you get there you're in for a lot of disappointment. The only coon dog worth keeping is the one that was born to be one. He or she is just waiting for a smart handler to bring out the best they were born with.

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Training dogs is not so much about quantity, it's more about timing, and the right situations...After that it's up to the dog....A hunting dog is born...

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Amen, I am not a dog trainer, but I have never seen anyone train a dog to hunt, track or tree accurately. All a good trainer can do is what you described and as my hunting partner an excellent trainer says is provide them with repetition. Hint the hair off them under supervised conditions to mold them into what you like. The dog has got to have what you want inbred in them, you can not put it there. Dave

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Naturals that's I've seen ....all u had to do was unsnap them.. .
From the 1st time taken to the woods, they treed coon like a seasoned dog. U can't train that .. it's just there .
All the civilizing, was done to enhance it's handle, and that came after their natural ability was Xposed..

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Registered: May 2016
Location: Palatka, FL
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A natural brings a lot of ability to the coon hunt. Like it has been said. You unsnap it and it seems to know what it is suppose to do. It doesn't do it perfect but gets better with experience. The only thing better than a natural coon dog. Is one that is a natural and also has brains.

One of my first coon dogs back in the late 60's was a natural. It was one of the first registered dogs I purchased and was just a puppy. I was in my late teens and didn't know what a coon dog was really suppose to do or how to train one. I just knew to get a puppy and take it hunting. This pup was hunted with a friends hounds that would run the heck out of a coon but didn't tree much. I hunted this pup with them and like many races before. It ended, but that time when it ended. My young dog started doing something we hadn't heard much of. That was treeing and treeing hard. She treed coon at an early age in spite of having a owner that knew nothing but to turn her loose.
Came from a lady named Cathy Jones in Dixon Iowa. They were some beautiful blueticks.

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Registered: Nov 2011
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A pup with natural born ability and a high level of brain power does not come often...in a good “ESTABLISHED” breeding program there can be a high percentage of above average pups that can be exposed to the right conditions and trained properly and these pups can be outstanding performers...

I think a lot of folks are constantly looking for the next stem winder world champion when in reality they could have the right bloodline in their backyard...and access to more of the same blood close by...just because we are breeding excellent dogs does not mean they can’t produce better than themselves...once upon a time I thought it was the sire and dam that made the biggest difference...and they do...but I have seen each generation improve in one way or another without going outside the bloodline...maybe not all pups but in the ones I have kept...so I now say it is not the dogs we are breeding that is the only thing that is important...but also, that what is in the dogs that is very important as well ...the hope should be that we select the best possible pups for continued improvement in the next generations of pups...that those pups will perform as well or outperform their sires and dams through proper breeding selection and better puppy selection and training...that is how I bred...and interpreted some of my past breedings...

In training a natural pup...like already said...we don’t train them to hunt...we fine tune them...but if we make a few mistakes at the beginning and we might never know he was a natural because he was ruined right off the bat...especially if we don’t have the appreciation and or have the experience in knowing when we are looking at a special pup...

Below is a negative experience or experiences...

The pups first time in the woods and does not know what a coon is...gets turned loose in deer country and the first thing he does is run a deer for two hours all alone in the pitch dark of night...if it were my pup I would be extremely excited with his performance even though he was trashing because I now know the potential in that pup based on that experience...but this never should’ve happened in the first place...the second mistake in this scenario... shocking the pup off the deer...shocked him twice so he can surely learn that lesson to not run deer and one more shock so he will never forget and and also making that lasting impression...let me see...there is a fifty fifty chance the pup will begin the learning process to not run deer...or his interpretation of what happened is that he is not allowed to run a track and worse...he understood it in this way...I am not allowed to run in the woods...therefore I will stick to my master like glue...and then we develop attitudes and all goes downhill from there...maybe trust issues...

Positive experiences below...

The pup gets introduced to a caged coon and he loves baying it and even wants to catch and the master praises him and gets just as excited as the pup because of the pups performance....master then turns the coon loose and pup give chase and trees...a couple more times but now the pup doesn’t see the coon but trails it to the tree and trees...not the best treeing but better than expected...master is very pleased and excited with pups overall performance and the pup loves it that master gets excited too and that in itself pushes the pup to want to please more...

The pup now knows that coon are acceptable game and the master really likes it when he gets on a coon...
The master knows that the pup is special and gamey...he also knows that deer are the worst thing for a pup to run because they tend to love running deer and they can cover some ground including going out of hearing...so about the only way to reach him if that were to happen is by shocking him and he knows that will have a negative outcome so that is out of the question...beating the pup is the wrong answer...when doing it right we won’t get in this predicament...doing it right makes it easy...

Doing it right is turning pup loose where there are coon and minimize the chances of running a deer...once the pup is hunting well in the woods and he knows the master loves him to get in there and find, trail, and tree coon...when the pup knows this without a doubt then breaking off deer can be done if needed because they already know the woods is fun an acceptable and they will not confuse deer breaking from being in the woods...I like breaking them off deer at home...

This post is for the young and new doggers...hope this improves your game if you don’t already know this...

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Training dogs is not so much about quantity, it's more about timing, and the right situations...After that it's up to the dog....A hunting dog is born...

Last edited by Reuben on 07-06-2019 at 04:49 PM

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Location: PA
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quote:

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Originally posted by DL NH
I hear a lot about training a coon dog. You train them not to run trash, train them to come when called, train them to heel on lead, keep quiet in the box, etc. If you think you're going to train a dog how to hunt, run a track and locate the right tree and bark treed till you get there you're in for a lot of disappointment. The only coon dog worth keeping is the one that was born to be one. He or she is just waiting for a smart handler to bring out the best they were born with.

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Registered: Nov 2014
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quote:

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Originally posted by honalieh
There is no substitute for talent. But you still need training and guidance. Talent is a starting point for a great dog. After that, you have to develop/train/guide that talent. Lots of talented dogs are ruined due to untalented/unknowledgeable handlers. To expect the dog to be smarter than the handler is asking a lot. A bad trainer/handler can screw up a talented dog.

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Registered: Feb 2012
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quote:

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Originally posted by Ghost14
I understand what you are saying, but your confusing a prospect with many positive attributes and a natural.
Hard to mess up a true natural. You’d have to purposefully make big mistakes to ruin the type dog I’m talking about. I don’t think I ever taught him anything. A natural is such because the drive and intelligence all combined in the perfect storm genetically. They reason things out and learn at an unreal level. Once a man raises a natural he will quit calling himself a handler or trainer. And it will ruin you for what dogs make the grade from then on too.

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quote:

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Originally posted by pamjohnson
apparently you need to hunt with other people more often. LOL I can tell ya I have hunted with some fellows that could ruin a great talented young natural easily.
As a matter of fact there are many great pups that sit in a pen and while there not ruined they just don't get a chance.

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Dan

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well I see a lot of you thank all dogs have the talent to be a coondog/ or they all are naturals ! you people must have a yard full of culls.

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I am not a dog trainer by any means but I have noticed that if someone does well working mules then they seem to get the best out of their dogs. While on subject if you want to see the differs in natural dogs and trained dogs try a few bird dogs. I do agree with Chew a natural will train the handle if he gives him a chance.

Last edited by stevwallace on 07-06-2019 at 04:21 PM

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quote:

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Originally posted by CHEWBACH
well I see a lot of you thank all dogs have the talent to be a coondog/ or they all are naturals ! you people must have a yard full of culls.

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A natural is one that doesn't need training, just turn him loose.

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