Registered: Mar 2014
Location:
Posts: 27

I've been to a few hunts now and I notice that when a dog or dogs are struck in on a track and fail to get a rabbit up and running the 3 minute clock is started. Which is correct! Here is my question:

Why is the clock being stopped and restarted every time a dog opens when it is clear that no reasonable forward progress is being made. (Reasonable forward progress is defined as a track that is runnable by the majority of the pack or when it is obvious to the majority of the cast members that a dog or dogs have recovered the track to a runnable state)

We spend 10-15 minutes of our 60 jacking around restarting the clock every time we get a couple dogs barking when they're still not running the rabbit.

Can't we leave the clock running, apply the minus and move on to a rabbit that we can actually get some positive score on?

__________________
Nick

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Rising Sun Maryland
Posts: 743

It should not be stopped because a dog barks. Only if forward progress is made, another dog strikes in, or a recovery is awarded.

__________________
H&H Warnicks Fairhill Kennels
Rising Sun Beagle Club
Team Fairhill
Find us on Facebook https://www.facebook.com/pages/Risi...268385493280349
http://rsbeagleclub.tripod.com

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Mar 2014
Location:
Posts: 27

Thank you very much Harry. Common sense still lives!

__________________
Nick

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Nov 2004
Location: Fresno Ohio
Posts: 2212

Correct, It is possible to have 2 clocks running simultaneously (Progess - 3 minute and a 1 minute check) Some forget that a track can end even though the dogs never went into a check.
Remember once progress has stopped we start a 3 minute clock. If the dogs remain silent we start a 1 minute check clock. If a dog opens prior to 1 minute of silence the check clock is stopped and must be restarted upon the dogs becoming silent again. The progression clock only stops IF - Progression is made or a check is rewarded.
Good Question.

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Sep 2007
Location: NE OHIO
Posts: 832

Well said Dave. Combined with Harry's additional comment... the clock starts over when a new dog strikes in. With a 4 dog cast you could use some time up if each new dog strikes in near the end of the 3 minute clock. Just doesn't typically happen that way.

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Mar 2014
Location:
Posts: 27

In the situation where the rabbit was never up and running (but dog/dogs were struck in) there is no check. Is that correct? Gotta be running to have a lapse in running. So only the 3 minute progress clock would run. And it wouldn't restart every time a dog barked without making progress, but would restart if a new dog was struck in? Is my understanding correct?

__________________
Nick

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Nov 2004
Location: Fresno Ohio
Posts: 2212

NO that is not correct. Once a dog is struck you are considered to have a track. If the struck hound or hounds go silent for 1 minute he/they are in a check and are to be minused 20. If another hound is struck prior to a recovery awarded the minus 20 check remains with no recovery and both the 3 minute and check clocks start over.

Last edited by Sundown Beagles on 10-15-2014 at 01:38 PM

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Mar 2014
Location:
Posts: 27

Feeling a little dumb on this one. Sorry for all the questions, just want to know what I'm doing when I go to the hunts.

1) Dog "A" is struck in but didn't get the rabbit going. After 1 minute he is minused 20 pts. at the 3 minute mark he is minused the hundred. Is he minused 120 total? No other dogs struck in.

2) Dog "A" is struck in but didn't get the rabbit going. Before the 1 minute is up he barks a couple times but still has nothing. Do both the 3 minute and 1 minute clock restart? No other dogs struck in.


3) Dog "A" is struck in but didn't get the rabbit going. The 1 minute clock elapsed and he's minused 20. He the opens and the 1 minute clock restarts. another minute passes. does he get minused another 20?

I'm a little slow! Once I get a clear understanding on 1 dog I'll ask about a 2nd dog striking in.

__________________
Nick

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Nov 2004
Location: Fresno Ohio
Posts: 2212

OK,
Question 1 - Dog A is struck for 100 points and goes nowhere the 3 minute progession clock is started, Dog A goes into a check resulting in a minus 20, the 3 minute progression clock runs out.
Answer - Minus Dog A 100 points draw a line through the minus 20. REASON - You cannot take a minus for a check and dead track without a recovery awarded. (Only exception is if another dog strikes in while your in a check)
Question 2 - Dog A is struck for 100 points and goes silent, the 3 minute progression clock starts as well as the 1 minute check clock. After 45 seconds Dog A barks 1 time and goes silent, the check clock is restarted. After 45 more seconds Dog A barks 2 times and goes silent, the check clock restarts again. After 35 more seconds Dog A barks 1 time. There is now only 55 seconds left of the 3 minute progression clock. ANSWER - Once a hound is struck he/they have 3 minutes to progress the track. Within that 3 minutes dog/dogs may earn check points.
Question 3 - SAME SCENERIO AS QUESTION 2 - ANSWER - NO Once your 1 minute clock expires and your in a check a hound must open honestly, resulting in reasonable forward progress to be awarded a recovery. 1 or 2 barks will not meet that criteria
FUTURE Question - Dog A barks and goes silent, both progression and check clocks are started. Dog A goes into a check. Dog B is struck and goes silent. ANSWER - Dog A's minus 20 stays on the card with no recovery awarded. IF Dogs A&B is silent for 1 minute after Dog B was struck both hounds will be in a check.

Hope this helps

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Rising Sun Maryland
Posts: 743

Nick where about u from?

__________________
H&H Warnicks Fairhill Kennels
Rising Sun Beagle Club
Team Fairhill
Find us on Facebook https://www.facebook.com/pages/Risi...268385493280349
http://rsbeagleclub.tripod.com

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Mar 2014
Location:
Posts: 27

Thanks Harry. I figured out my problem. I had no idea that the check clock was also started when the progression clock was started. I read and re-read the book and just didn't see it. Still don't. I assumed you would actually have to have ran the rabbit to have a break down (Check). I plan on coming to one of the 2 day trials in Darlington/Jefferson MD. next year and will introduce myself to you. You are a great help.

__________________
Nick

Last edited by Nick the NewGuy on 10-17-2014 at 12:10 PM

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Jul 2003
Location: Newark, Ohio
Posts: 1751

well done fellas! When I start the clock after the dogs break down..I am always starting my progression clock...I keep track of each time a dog barks in my "3 minute progression clock" and if we have a full minute of silence I'll call "check at 1 minute 45 seconds of the progression clock" (example) so all cast members are clear that progress is also being ran.....no reasonable forward progress 3 minutes after what I determine to be breakdown no recovery is rewarded and dead track is called. wether you have a dog barking around or not...the key is "reasonable" forward progress...keeping in mind what the scenting conditions appear to be for that particular day..it's the judges job to stay consistent with the clock through out the cast.....and the casts members to ensure he is not manipulating according to situations...

__________________
NO LUCK KENNEL "Team Fudd" Promoting Gun Dogs!
Tri-Tronics Influentials
Purina Pro Club
Thirtyoughtsix Bred Beagles
330-987-5883
www.noluckkennels.webs.com
CH PCH GRHBCH No Luck Red Falcon of Crowtown
HBCH Gridiron Double Trouble
HBCH Highbar's No Luck High Octane
PCH GRCH Diamond Blaze
LPRCH HBCH Gridiron No Luck Bad Mojo
CH Thirtyoughtsix Lucky Boy
CH 'PR' Weedeaters No Luck Ugly Betty
No Luck Red Razz (coming soon)

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged