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Ok , so jackson throws white pups. Now where does the jack Russell actions come from? Hmmmm

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I wouldn't ever entertain of registering a dog under false papers. I hunt Treeing curs and they are more cur than they are hound. I look back at some of the dogs in my females pedigree and there is some streak, jesse james, and a pistol pete dog. But yes there is Rat Attack and X jr as well. So knowing that and liking that about my dogs they will be Treeing Curs as they were meant to be.

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quote:

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Originally posted by tn russ
Ok , so jackson throws white pups. Now where does the jack Russell actions come from? Hmmmm

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quote:

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Originally posted by Al Medcalf
Turbo, Hidden genes may pop up on occasion. With Mt. Jackson, it ain't occasionally, it is often.

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quote:

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Originally posted by McSquizzie
If u have some facts, would love to hear them....otherwise it's all rumors and hearsay.

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quote:

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Originally posted by McSquizzie
If u have some facts, would love to hear them....otherwise it's all rumors and hearsay.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Al Medcalf
Rumors and hearsay don't produce a high number of off colored pups.

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I thought Jackson looked like a typical streak bred dog . Was he something different ?

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it would be much easier to hide plott blood in these dogs....especially those that are 50+ lbs and black/brindle. But streak and Jackson don't need anyone to stand for them, their reproduction record stands all by itself.

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quote:

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Originally posted by McSquizzie
it would be much easier to hide plott blood in these dogs....especially those that are 50+ lbs and black/brindle. But streak and Jackson don't need anyone to stand for them, their reproduction record stands all by itself.

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quote:

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Originally posted by McSquizzie
it would be much easier to hide plott blood in these dogs....especially those that are 50+ lbs and black/brindle. But streak and Jackson don't need anyone to stand for them, their reproduction record stands all by itself.

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All I will say is I don't know, and u don't know, so speculation is all that's left. No one has DNA figured out, so speculate away.....

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DNA is DEFINITELY figured out sir. The leadership of the OMCBA refuse to institute its use. Why would you suppose that is?
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Jackson supposedly was DNA'd he hunted in PKC, of course with his sire and dame not it didn't do much good.

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Amen! Dean

Yep Tim, you can prove if a pup belongs to him but you can't prove who his Maw and Paw are

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quote:

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Originally posted by luv2hunt08
DNA is DEFINITELY figured out sir.
Dean Wright

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Hey guys i appriciate all the replys but like someone said earlier i was just curious how many people had seen odd color pups like this i didn't mean for this to become a debate over the purity status of certain dogs

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quote:

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Originally posted by McSquizzie
Have u ever had a dog DNA,d to see what it's ancestry was? If so, you would know what I was referring to. I think there would be many dogs papers be worthless that have nothing to do with streak than most think if DNA were done on all omcba.

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quote:

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Originally posted by nccatfisher
I would love to see these "Streak" bred pups DNA'd they would blow up the meter. LOL

http://www.sqdog.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=136594

Now tell me about all the dog with worthless papers that have nothing to do with Streak. There are papers hung on all dogs, but as popular as Streak was for years you can bet your butt there was plenty hung with his name that wasn't right.

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I believe those are Finley River bred.

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if there streak bred they just might have a little tab of finely river in em.

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"No one has DNA figured out, so speculate away....."

That kinda thinking is largely responsible for why NONE of us, regardless of what STRAIN of OMC we hunt, can look upon our dog's papers with reasonable certainty that they are correct. OMCBA breeding and pup registration operates on the "Honor System," i.e., it is entirely dependent upon the honesty of the breeder and his submission of information to our Registrar.

For years now I've told anybody that woud listen, including my fellow BOD members, that I have NO interest in going back and "digging up old bones," so-to-speak by using DNA to undo years of registration. Rather, what I would have liked to have seen, but have since given up on, is a requirement that breeding pairs be DNA profiled in order to register any pups out of them. The only time a pup out of such cross need be DNA'd would be if it is later bred. It wouldn't cut out all dishonesty and false papering, but it'd be a great help, with DNA profiles available at a central processing center of the OMCBA's choosing for verification if and when a question arose.

That's my 2 cents, spend it as you see fit, but don't tell me and others that DNA is some grand mystery or passing fad, amounting to little more than speculation........

Mark.

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quote:

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Originally posted by mdmorrison
"No one has DNA figured out, so speculate away....."

That kinda thinking is largely responsible for why NONE of us, regardless of what STRAIN of OMC we hunt, can look upon our dog's papers with reasonable certainty that they are correct. OMCBA breeding and pup registration operates on the "Honor System," i.e., it is entirely dependent upon the honesty of the breeder and his submission of information to our Registrar.

For years now I've told anybody that woud listen, including my fellow BOD members, that I have NO interest in going back and "digging up old bones," so-to-speak by using DNA to undo years of registration. Rather, what I would have liked to have seen, but have since given up on, is a requirement that breeding pairs be DNA profiled in order to register any pups out of them. The only time a pup out of such cross need be DNA'd would be if it is later bred. It wouldn't cut out all dishonesty and false papering, but it'd be a great help, with DNA profiles available at a central processing center of the OMCBA's choosing for verification if and when a question arose.

That's my 2 cents, spend it as you see fit, but don't tell me and others that DNA is some grand mystery or passing fad, amounting to little more than speculation........

Mark.

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quote:

---

Originally posted by mdmorrison
"No one has DNA figured out, so speculate away....."

That kinda thinking is largely responsible for why NONE of us, regardless of what STRAIN of OMC we hunt, can look upon our dog's papers with reasonable certainty that they are correct. OMCBA breeding and pup registration operates on the "Honor System," i.e., it is entirely dependent upon the honesty of the breeder and his submission of information to our Registrar.

For years now I've told anybody that woud listen, including my fellow BOD members, that I have NO interest in going back and "digging up old bones," so-to-speak by using DNA to undo years of registration. Rather, what I would have liked to have seen, but have since given up on, is a requirement that breeding pairs be DNA profiled in order to register any pups out of them. The only time a pup out of such cross need be DNA'd would be if it is later bred. It wouldn't cut out all dishonesty and false papering, but it'd be a great help, with DNA profiles available at a central processing center of the OMCBA's choosing for verification if and when a question arose.

That's my 2 cents, spend it as you see fit, but don't tell me and others that DNA is some grand mystery or passing fad, amounting to little more than speculation........

Mark.

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Good post Mark! and I agree with your take on DNA profiling! However, the past breeding practices of some may lend to the 'death ear' or,if you will, 'pink elephant' in the room that some folks can't see or simply ignore. This practice of 'sweeping under the rug' of certain misbreedings may obscure the parantage but it can't hide in the genes of the offspring for ever as in the Mtn Jackson case from what I am reading.

I also agree that "digging up ole bones" would be an effort in frutility as our founders/old timers did not even have papers on dogs before breed associations, except for maybe personal hand written records, rather bred dogs that got the JOB done usually from local flavor thus the various and different lines of our so called cur dogs.

What is in our dogs is not the point as for as I am concerned!! It is the 'false papering' for whatever reason that concerns me as well as many other folks. But, again, the 'pink elephant' goes un-noticed or ignored.

From my humble beginnings with these tree dogs of various breeds, it was kind of a joke between a few friends. We would say that, "the only way to know what our pups are out of is to make the breeding ourselves and keep the female until pups are born and that is basically what we did for over 20 years.

One of the all time great bird dog men recently got barred for life because the breed assoc. started to DNA all champions. His great Ch Bird Dog was hard to beat and everyone wanted to breed to him. However, the owner knew that this dog was not a great producer so he bred him to his other unknow stud dog that was not half the dog in the field but was a great producer and put the Ch papered dog as the sire of pups.

The DNA caught this and now the owner is barred for life.

It is a shame and the fellow is a great dog man but I am glad to see an organization take a stand and put a stop to the false papering or at least make a sincere effort with DNA profiling.

I am not sure of what is left of the original foundation stock of dogs in most any cur/fiest breed specific organization but I am always happy to see certain groups of folks trying to perserve what they have with good honest dogmanship and honest breeding practices.

We still have a lot of great dogs to enjoy but hopefully the DNA profiling will not be left on the back burner and we can some day spell cur with a capital "C"!

Mark, this thing is burning a hole in my back pocket so here is an 'old Bone' to gnaw on!!!(Ha!)

Note: and by the way the ring neck dogs are 'incomplete dominant for the 'pieball' gene so it goes back a few years!

This old dogs genes were plagiarized by many that knew of his existance.

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..... holding that Old Photo in your wallet and sliding it in and out over the years, I've gotta assume you've got an asbestos billfold!

LOL!

Mark.

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quote:

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Originally posted by mdmorrison
..... holding that Old Photo in your wallet and sliding it in and out over the years, I've gotta assume you've got an asbestos billfold!

LOL!

Mark.

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