UKC Forums UKC Front Page :: Field Operations :: Show Operations :: Registration :: UKC Store
Here you can view your subscribed threads, work with private messages and edit your profile and preferences Registration is free! Calendar Find other members Frequently Asked Questions Search Home  
UKC Forums : Powered by vBulletin version 2.3.0 UKC Forums > Departments > UKC Coonhounds > Hybrid vigor ?
  Last Thread   Next Thread
Author
Thread Post New Thread    Post A Reply
yadkintar
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jan 2013
Location: Marietta
Posts: 9582

Hybrid vigor ?

Whatís everybodyís take on it ? Does it just happen or can you make it happen ?



Tar

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Old Post 12-09-2019 12:07 AM
yadkintar is offline Click Here to See the Profile for yadkintar Click here to Send yadkintar a Private Message Click Here to Email yadkintar Find more posts by yadkintar Add yadkintar to your buddy list Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
Reuben
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Nov 2011
Location: Freeport,TX
Posts: 846

I believe that when we have been line breeding and inbreeding a strain of dogs then at some point to get hybrid vigor we must breed to a dog that is not related...

In the wild...
is there hybrid vigor when needed amongst the wildlife? I do not know...Mother Nature does not make mistakes when culling, so then maybe there is no need for hybrid vigor in the wild?

__________________
Training dogs is not so much about quantity, it's more about timing, and the right situations...After that it's up to the dog....A hunting dog is born...

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Old Post 12-09-2019 12:57 AM
Reuben is offline Click Here to See the Profile for Reuben Click here to Send Reuben a Private Message Click Here to Email Reuben Find more posts by Reuben Add Reuben to your buddy list Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
Richard Lambert
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Aug 2004
Location: Chattanooga, Tn
Posts: 17672

What is hybrid vigor?

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Old Post 12-09-2019 01:01 AM
Richard Lambert is offline Click Here to See the Profile for Richard Lambert Click here to Send Richard Lambert a Private Message Click Here to Email Richard Lambert Find more posts by Richard Lambert Add Richard Lambert to your buddy list Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
shadinc
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jun 2014
Location: Louisiana
Posts: 2157

The only hybrid I'm familiar with is the mule. I don't know what a canine hybrid would be. I don't think a wolf-dog cross is considered a true hybrid. Maybe a dog -hyena cross? Is that what you're considering, Tar?

__________________
Donald Bergeron

Last edited by shadinc on 12-09-2019 at 01:18 AM

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Old Post 12-09-2019 01:13 AM
shadinc is offline Click Here to See the Profile for shadinc Click here to Send shadinc a Private Message Click Here to Email shadinc Find more posts by shadinc Add shadinc to your buddy list Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
yadkintar
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jan 2013
Location: Marietta
Posts: 9582

quote:
Originally posted by Richard Lambert
What is hybrid vigor?



It is the improvement of form or function as the result of cross breeding.


Sure like that blue dog.



Tar

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Old Post 12-09-2019 01:21 AM
yadkintar is offline Click Here to See the Profile for yadkintar Click here to Send yadkintar a Private Message Click Here to Email yadkintar Find more posts by yadkintar Add yadkintar to your buddy list Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
Reuben
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Nov 2011
Location: Freeport,TX
Posts: 846

The mule is a hybrid cross...a horse and a donkey can breed and reproduce but the offspring is always sterile so they canít reproduce...

In dogs loss of hybrid vigor is due to inbreeding and line breeding relatives...there will be a higher amount of the same genes passed from each parent which is less diversification...a less diverse gene pool will get worse with each generation...producing smaller dogs, smaller testicles which causes lower sperm counts and smaller litters...puppies and dogs will have weakened immune systems so the possibility of dying early is more common...etc...etc...

The opposite of hybrid vigor is breeding depression or back in the old days it was called tired blood...

A walker crossed with a bluetick will produce hybrid vigor...

A line bred walker bred to a line bred walker from unrelated lines will produce hybrid vigor...my guess not as much hybrid vigor as with the bluetick and walker cross...

__________________
Training dogs is not so much about quantity, it's more about timing, and the right situations...After that it's up to the dog....A hunting dog is born...

Last edited by Reuben on 12-09-2019 at 01:53 AM

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Old Post 12-09-2019 01:48 AM
Reuben is offline Click Here to See the Profile for Reuben Click here to Send Reuben a Private Message Click Here to Email Reuben Find more posts by Reuben Add Reuben to your buddy list Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
Richard Lambert
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Aug 2004
Location: Chattanooga, Tn
Posts: 17672

So, all you have to do to get "hybrid vigor" is breed a walker to a bluetick? That sounds awfully easy. I wonder why everyone doesnt just do that?

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Old Post 12-09-2019 02:02 AM
Richard Lambert is offline Click Here to See the Profile for Richard Lambert Click here to Send Richard Lambert a Private Message Click Here to Email Richard Lambert Find more posts by Richard Lambert Add Richard Lambert to your buddy list Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
yadkintar
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jan 2013
Location: Marietta
Posts: 9582

quote:
Originally posted by Richard Lambert
So, all you have to do to get "hybrid vigor" is breed a walker to a bluetick? That sounds awfully easy. I wonder why everyone doesnt just do that?



A top reproducing bluetick and a winning bluetick.



When you have walkers the all grand pedigree and close family breeding has more less caused tired blood yes they tree coons but mine seem to have just stayed the same I want some improvement.


Tar

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Old Post 12-09-2019 02:11 AM
yadkintar is offline Click Here to See the Profile for yadkintar Click here to Send yadkintar a Private Message Click Here to Email yadkintar Find more posts by yadkintar Add yadkintar to your buddy list Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
Richard Lambert
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Aug 2004
Location: Chattanooga, Tn
Posts: 17672

quote:
Originally posted by yadkintar
I want some improvement.
Tar



Don't we all.....

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Old Post 12-09-2019 02:18 AM
Richard Lambert is offline Click Here to See the Profile for Richard Lambert Click here to Send Richard Lambert a Private Message Click Here to Email Richard Lambert Find more posts by Richard Lambert Add Richard Lambert to your buddy list Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
Preacher Tom
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Feb 2015
Location: NW Arkansas
Posts: 616

What you guys think about breeding a good walker female to an airedale or maybe a birddog? I has worked in the past and maybe by the time your down to 1/8 airedale might have a new line of coon dogs.

__________________
Tom Wood

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Old Post 12-09-2019 02:23 AM
Preacher Tom is offline Click Here to See the Profile for Preacher Tom Click here to Send Preacher Tom a Private Message Click Here to Email Preacher Tom Find more posts by Preacher Tom Add Preacher Tom to your buddy list Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
yadkintar
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jan 2013
Location: Marietta
Posts: 9582

quote:
Originally posted by Preacher Tom
What you guys think about breeding a good walker female to an airedale or maybe a birddog? I has worked in the past and maybe by the time your down to 1/8 airedale might have a new line of coon dogs.



Tom you remember Vernon waterson he is gone now but he had a half Airedale half walker could tree any kind of coon and I never walked to an empty tree that he had first tree on.

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Old Post 12-09-2019 02:28 AM
yadkintar is offline Click Here to See the Profile for yadkintar Click here to Send yadkintar a Private Message Click Here to Email yadkintar Find more posts by yadkintar Add yadkintar to your buddy list Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
Cotton 1927
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Mar 2016
Location: Central,illinois
Posts: 32

Getting Hybird vigor and getting a coon dog are not the same,you can cross a jack on a mare and you will always get a mule....but there's no guarantee it will be a good mule! I've been in the middle of some that weren't .....

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Old Post 12-09-2019 02:44 AM
Cotton 1927 is offline Click Here to See the Profile for Cotton 1927 Click here to Send Cotton 1927 a Private Message Click Here to Email Cotton 1927 Find more posts by Cotton 1927 Add Cotton 1927 to your buddy list Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
shadinc
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jun 2014
Location: Louisiana
Posts: 2157

Yep. This hybrid vigor can be more vigorous than wanted.

__________________
Donald Bergeron

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Old Post 12-09-2019 02:59 AM
shadinc is offline Click Here to See the Profile for shadinc Click here to Send shadinc a Private Message Click Here to Email shadinc Find more posts by shadinc Add shadinc to your buddy list Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
Richard Lambert
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Aug 2004
Location: Chattanooga, Tn
Posts: 17672

quote:
Originally posted by Cotton 1927
Getting Hybird vigor and getting a coon dog are not the same,you can cross a jack on a mare and you will always get a mule....but there's no guarantee it will be a good mule! I've been in the middle of some that weren't .....


So just what is "hybrid vigor"??? Can you get the "hybrid" without getting the "vigor"?

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Old Post 12-09-2019 03:00 AM
Richard Lambert is offline Click Here to See the Profile for Richard Lambert Click here to Send Richard Lambert a Private Message Click Here to Email Richard Lambert Find more posts by Richard Lambert Add Richard Lambert to your buddy list Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
Dave Richards
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Apr 2015
Location: church hill tn
Posts: 3524

Hybrid vigor

Breeding a walker female that's a coon dog to a Bluetick that's a coon dog should get coon dogs, breeding coon dog to coon dog is how we got started and is what's needed to improve a stale line of dogs. Every breed was a combination of breeds in the beginning and every breed can use some outcrossing on another breed that has what you are looking for. At least we can now register these out crosses as cross breeds . Dave

__________________
Dave Richards Treeing Walkers Reg American Saddlebred and Registered Rocky Mt. Show Horses

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Old Post 12-09-2019 03:00 AM
Dave Richards is offline Click Here to See the Profile for Dave Richards Click here to Send Dave Richards a Private Message Click Here to Email Dave Richards Find more posts by Dave Richards Add Dave Richards to your buddy list Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
shadinc
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jun 2014
Location: Louisiana
Posts: 2157

quote:
Originally posted by Richard Lambert
So just what is "hybrid vigor"??? Can you get the "hybrid" without getting the "vigor"?
With mules they're stronger than either parent, live longer, work longer without tiring, eat less and less prone to diseases.

__________________
Donald Bergeron

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Old Post 12-09-2019 03:06 AM
shadinc is offline Click Here to See the Profile for shadinc Click here to Send shadinc a Private Message Click Here to Email shadinc Find more posts by shadinc Add shadinc to your buddy list Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
shadinc
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jun 2014
Location: Louisiana
Posts: 2157

Tar, wouldn't a totally unrelated dog of your breed be just as good as different breed?

__________________
Donald Bergeron

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Old Post 12-09-2019 03:21 AM
shadinc is offline Click Here to See the Profile for shadinc Click here to Send shadinc a Private Message Click Here to Email shadinc Find more posts by shadinc Add shadinc to your buddy list Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
Richard Lambert
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Aug 2004
Location: Chattanooga, Tn
Posts: 17672

quote:
Originally posted by shadinc
With mules they're stronger than either parent, live longer, work longer without tiring, eat less and less prone to diseases.


Maybe therein lies the problem. Being stronger, less tired, eating less and less prone to disease while being great attributes, has very little to do with being a good coon dog.

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Old Post 12-09-2019 04:01 AM
Richard Lambert is offline Click Here to See the Profile for Richard Lambert Click here to Send Richard Lambert a Private Message Click Here to Email Richard Lambert Find more posts by Richard Lambert Add Richard Lambert to your buddy list Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
Dave Richards
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Apr 2015
Location: church hill tn
Posts: 3524

Mr. Lambert

Hunting style, tracking ability, ( nose ), mouth ALL of these things have something to do with being a coon dog. Dave

__________________
Dave Richards Treeing Walkers Reg American Saddlebred and Registered Rocky Mt. Show Horses

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Old Post 12-09-2019 04:10 AM
Dave Richards is offline Click Here to See the Profile for Dave Richards Click here to Send Dave Richards a Private Message Click Here to Email Dave Richards Find more posts by Dave Richards Add Dave Richards to your buddy list Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
Preacher Tom
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Feb 2015
Location: NW Arkansas
Posts: 616

[QUOTE]Originally posted by yadkintar
Tom you remember Vernon waterson he is gone now but he had a half Airedale half walker could tree any kind of coon and I never walked to an empty tree that he had first tree on. [/QUOTE

Tar what kinda mouth did he have? I am seriously thinking
about making such a cross. But at 70 don't know if I have energy to see it thru.

__________________
Tom Wood

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Old Post 12-09-2019 04:17 AM
Preacher Tom is offline Click Here to See the Profile for Preacher Tom Click here to Send Preacher Tom a Private Message Click Here to Email Preacher Tom Find more posts by Preacher Tom Add Preacher Tom to your buddy list Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
Larry Hall
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jan 2005
Location: NE Indiana
Posts: 361

German short hair pointer. Forget that Bluetick nonsense. Put some heads up nose ability and brains in the pups.

English pointer if you donít care about the brains. But the buggers will have some wheels.

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Old Post 12-09-2019 05:06 AM
Larry Hall is offline Click Here to See the Profile for Larry Hall Click here to Send Larry Hall a Private Message Click Here to Email Larry Hall Find more posts by Larry Hall Add Larry Hall to your buddy list Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
yadkintar
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jan 2013
Location: Marietta
Posts: 9582

quote:
Originally posted by shadinc
Tar, wouldn't a totally unrelated dog of your breed be just as good as different breed?



In the other breeds not many sired 4 or 5000 pups !! Ole so and so if you buy a pup might be in there 3 times at least on any pup you buy now days. All the walkers are related and saturated with the same blood.



Tom he bawled and chopped on the ground was just a little tight but not bad and a every breath tree dog. And really was good natured and minded well.


Tar

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Old Post 12-09-2019 06:28 AM
yadkintar is offline Click Here to See the Profile for yadkintar Click here to Send yadkintar a Private Message Click Here to Email yadkintar Find more posts by yadkintar Add yadkintar to your buddy list Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
All times are GMT. The time now is 09:59 AM. Post New Thread    Post A Reply
  Last Thread   Next Thread
Show Printable Version | Email this Page | Subscribe to this Thread


Forum Jump:
 

Forum Rules:
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not edit your posts
HTML code is OFF
vB code is ON
Smilies are ON
[IMG] code is ON
 
< Contact Us - The United Kennel Club >

Copyright 2003-2017, United Kennel Club
Powered by: vBulletin Version 2.3.0
(vBulletin courtesy Jelsoft Enterprises Limited.)