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Corey Gruver
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Registered: Jun 2014
Location: Conneaut Lake, PA
Posts: 1605

The " New" Competitive Edge

When will we see the competition world start breeding for the "new" competitive edge? This thread is specifically about close hunting dogs and who likes them. Do you think that "close with a coon" is going to start trumping "deep and lonely" on a more regular basis? Are people breeding for closer hunting, competitive dogs yet, or do they already exist?

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Corey Gruver
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yadkintar
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That no leash lock rule is going to change everything in my opinion for the better.

Tar

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Richard Lambert
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Several handlers will have to start winning with one before hunters start breeding for them. "I think" that handlers would first start reining in those deep hunters.

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J.H. Sills
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I like to run a variety of treeing game and ďclose with a coonĒ doesnít get that job done. Iíll just stick with what weíve got going and if it doesnít work with the new rules will probably go to less hunts.

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yadkintar
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I think people already got them they just didnít like competing running those grueling marathons with their dog on the leash all night.


Tar

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J.H. Sills
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quote:
Originally posted by yadkintar
That no leash lock rule is going to change everything in my opinion for the better.

Tar



👍

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randywoodard2
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U know the dogs I've had tree behind my dog was slick so wheres these amazing dogs at?🤔

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Corey Gruver
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Registered: Jun 2014
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I'd say location has a lot to do with everyone's opinion on a close hunting dog. A close hunter won't be very successful in the deep south or out west, I would imagine.

But goodness, there should be a fair amount of them where raccoons are plentiful. Nothing was ever more irritating to me then walking past three coon sitting up to go tree the one at the end of the block

Anybody raising, competing with or training closer hunting dogs right now?

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yadkintar
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Registered: Jan 2013
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quote:
Originally posted by Corey Gruver
I'd say location has a lot to do with everyone's opinion on a close hunting dog. A close hunter won't be very successful in the deep south or out west, I would imagine.

But goodness, there should be a fair amount of them where raccoons are plentiful. Nothing more irritating to me then walking past three coon sitting up to go tree the one at the end of the block

Anybody raising, competing with or training closer hunting dogs right now?




I guess I got the best of both worlds mine tree them as they come to them.


Tar

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Corey Gruver
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Tar

That dog should be worth a pretty penny where you are from. I guess that close hunters and treeing them as they come can be one and the same most of the time, cant they??

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Corey Gruver
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yadkintar
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Re: Tar

quote:
Originally posted by Corey Gruver
That dog should be worth a pretty penny where you are from. I guess the those two types can be one and the same most of the time, cant they??



I donít know Corey since I been hunting I started in 1979 in the competition hunts thatís the only kind I been around. Coon stopper , crows boss , all the dohoney and spring creek rock dogs , Johnsonís Danny boy buffalo river thunder. Thatís what I cut my teeth on in the 3 hr hunts they would back they would split they would tree coons as they come to them layups to we did not have $$$ hunts we skinned coons for our money you didnít have a well rounded dog you wouldnít make it 3 hrs. Boss could be running a red hot coon with the pack fall out and tree a layup put him back in the race and he would tree their coon he was that fast. I never seen babble deep and alone till I started going to the big $$$ hunts. And I give um a hard time but lipper was a coon treeing machine. I went with the rattler dogs because they were just like the dogs above a lot has changed just not me lol.


Tar

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Toad Hill
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Registered: Jun 2014
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I want to tree the first coon up thick coon or thin coon , I don't care if it's in 3 acre patch right from tailgate or mile deep.
But a dog that don't have any depth or desire to GO and find a coon here where I hunt will have a different owner cause he won't live here.

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Richard Lambert
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Location: Chattanooga, Tn
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Corey I have 2 dogs. One trees close coons and one goes deeep. One works bad tracks and gets treed while the other one will leave them and go looking for a better track. Guess which one I hunt and which one sits in her kennel.

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Corey Gruver
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Registered: Jun 2014
Location: Conneaut Lake, PA
Posts: 1605

quote:
Originally posted by Richard Lambert
Corey I have 2 dogs. One trees close coons and one goes deeep. One works bad tracks and gets treed while the other one will leave them and go looking for a better track. Guess which one I hunt and which one sits in her kennel.


You'll have to tell me Richard, I'm guessing they are the same color?

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ING 194
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To bad you didn't live close enough to hunt with my female Corey. She'd put a smile on your face.

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Richard Lambert
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Of course...

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Corey Gruver
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What is everyone definition of what constitutes "close hunting"? I'm sure that definition is different for all of us.

My idea of a close hunting HOUND is 300-400 yards max. What's yours?

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Corey Gruver
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yadkintar
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quote:
Originally posted by Corey Gruver
What is everyone definition of what constitutes "close hunting"? I'm sure that definition is different for all of us.

My idea of a close hunting HOUND is 300-400 yards max. What's yours?




At times that might get you struck here and at times it might take 700 yards or so.


But I am on the tailgate till it happens I ainít walking no dog over a coon.


Tar

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Richard Lambert
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My definition is one that hunts in a circle or actually "hunts" the woods you put them in and doesn't straight line into the next county. They will also come back and check in If they can't find a track. Time or distance doesn't have that much to do with it.

There are some "close hunting" dogs that actually just have a very good nose and know how to hunt. They always seem to get struck at less than 400 yds so their owner thinks that they are a close hunter. But if they dont get struck, they keep going until they do.

And there are many variations of a close hunter but one that only goes 50-200 yds, comes back and stands beside you is a non-hunting dog.

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Corey Gruver
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Registered: Jun 2014
Location: Conneaut Lake, PA
Posts: 1605

quote:
Originally posted by Richard Lambert
My definition is one that hunts in a circle or actually "hunts" the woods you put them in and doesn't straight line into the next county. They will also come back and check in If they can't find a track. Time or distance doesn't have that much to do with it.

There are some "close hunting" dogs that actually just have a very good nose and know how to hunt. They always seem to get struck at less than 400 yds so their owner thinks that they are a close hunter. But if they dont get struck, they keep going until they do.

And there are many variations of a close hunter but one that only goes 50-200 yds, comes back and stands beside you is a non-hunting dog.



Richard, I think you actually bring an interesting element to the discussion for once (I'm shocked!)

I think I'd like that type of dog you described, though I'm not sure I've hunted with many hounds around here that would fit that description.

I'm not sure whether I would classify hunting in a circle or a straight line as more to do with style or range? Or maybe I'm splitting hairs on that one.

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novicane65
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I like for 1 to tree coons as close as possible anymore. But I want it done fast. I want the dog to be moving around at a higher rate of speed than most dogs move. I like a dog to move at 7+mph. I want a dog to tree coon as they come to them, but don't want one to bog down on a track that it can't handle. I like a dog that can tree layups, runners and can ambush if it has the opportunity too. I like for a dog to make a 500 yard loop and come by within hearing distance and go as far as needed after that first loop. To me a close hunting dog is anything under 300, a medium hunter is 300-900, and deep hunter 900+.

I believe there will be a shift in what guys will be leading around soon. Might not happen over night, but it will happen.

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Darren Hollis
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Deep hunters

I would not tree many coons with dogs that hunt 200-300yds and check in here in Alabama. Been in a lot of hunts where that close hunter is at the truck and ole deep and lonely is in yonder under a coon. I believe territory and coon population affects what kind of hound we hunt to be successful. I can see where the close hunting,coon treeing dog would be very successful in the higher coon populated northern states.

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Preacher Tom
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Well on one turnout my dog doesn't hunt far enough to suit me and on the next he goes too far. Wish he could read my mind how far I want him to go. In reality he hunts about the same on each turn out but the size of the place to hunt changes how far I want him to go.

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treedog2345
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Where we hunt we have to have a dog that will do whatever to get one trees don't want one passing up coons but want one that will go get it done . We don't hunt buckets we hunt good farms with decent coo. Population but the problem we are running into is the modern day man movement into our hunting grounds it at least where we live and hu t is going to get to where you need a four or five hundred yard dog that will hunt a circle just to keep you out of jail.

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Reuben
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quote:
Originally posted by Richard Lambert
My definition is one that hunts in a circle or actually "hunts" the woods you put them in and doesn't straight line into the next county. They will also come back and check in If they can't find a track. Time or distance doesn't have that much to do with it.

There are some "close hunting" dogs that actually just have a very good nose and know how to hunt. They always seem to get struck at less than 400 yds so their owner thinks that they are a close hunter. But if they dont get struck, they keep going until they do.

And there are many variations of a close hunter but one that only goes 50-200 yds, comes back and stands beside you is a non-hunting dog.



I agree with this and what Tar said...if Iím in the middle of the woods and walking my dogs should hunt circles around me and hunting with me...and moving at a good comfortable speed...if they wind or pick a decent track to take it as far as needed to get the job done...if I am sitting still the dogs should hunt the are and range further out...
Competition rules should be written and designed for the complete hunting dog...the dog that takes the tracks as they come...using logical reasoning...and this will be a self fix system that promotes better dog breeding...

There is something wrong when a pedigree is stacked with grand nights champions and yet people complain about the high number of pups that donít make it even though their pedigree say otherwise...

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