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J Gearing
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Mar 2007
Location:
Posts: 258

Hunt Director

Will the Hunt Director be allowed to hunt in 2020?

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Old Post 11-06-2019 08:21 PM
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trevorwade09
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jun 2012
Location: Tennessee
Posts: 779

The proposal allowing Hunt Directors to hunt did not pass at the rules committee meeting. The link below contains the rules that were passed.

https://www.ukcdogs.com/docs/huntin...ctober-2019.pdf

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Old Post 11-06-2019 08:54 PM
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Jack Bingham
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Out of all the rule changes that did pass it's beyond me why this one did not. Hunt director can't decide anything anyway so keeping him or her at club house is a moot point.

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Old Post 11-06-2019 09:56 PM
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Rolin Blues
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Nov 2005
Location: Iowa
Posts: 2813

Both right

No need to lose an entry, when they can't make ruling on anything till 3 panel members get back anyway. Has worked fine in other registries for years. Take care, Ron.

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Old Post 11-06-2019 11:02 PM
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Dave Richards
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Registered: Apr 2015
Location: church hill tn
Posts: 3528

Tar

Sadly, this is an area that is taken for granted, little appreciation and often abused from the very ones that benefit from a willing individual that gives up their hunt and personal time in order to enable a Club to hold these competition hunts. Little or no pay, can't hunt in the hunt, trying to resolve any disputes that arise, these are just some of the things that a MOH or Hunt Director is rewarded with, makes you really want that position, doesn't it? When the time comes that NO ONE will do this thankless job with all of its "wonderful" benefits, maybe folks will wake up. Until then, I highly suspect no one will give a hoot about the MOH or Hunt Director not getting to actually hunt themselves. Dave

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Old Post 11-06-2019 11:41 PM
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Dave Richards
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Registered: Apr 2015
Location: church hill tn
Posts: 3528

Tar

When no one will step up and be a Hunt Director because they CAN NOT HUNT, you might see a change, the only reason we have Hunt Directors now is due to a MOH shortage. Guess folks figured out being a MOH was a mostly no pay, get treated like crap jib they really don't want. Hunt Directors may figure the same before long, then what? Dave

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Old Post 11-07-2019 02:09 AM
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Dave Richards
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Registered: Apr 2015
Location: church hill tn
Posts: 3528

Tar

I hear you, sadly you will be doing this job for free. Most clubs are struggling to survive and can not afford to pay a fair price for the MOH service, you won't even get gas money, something very wrong with that picture. Thank God for the ONES that still care enough to give of their time and experience free of charge just to enable a Club to have their HUNTS. Dave

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Old Post 11-07-2019 02:35 AM
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J Gearing
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Mar 2007
Location:
Posts: 258

quote:
Originally posted by trevorwade09
The proposal allowing Hunt Directors to hunt did not pass at the rules committee meeting. The link below contains the rules that were passed.

https://www.ukcdogs.com/docs/huntin...ctober-2019.pdf



Disappointing

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Old Post 11-07-2019 02:57 AM
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Toad Hill
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Registered: Jun 2014
Location: missouri
Posts: 916

Many can say it, scream it , type it, beg, cry, stomp feet spit and cuss or whatever you want to do but what it ALL boils down to is "Politics" . It's always politics. And if you believe otherwise you've got your head in the sand. You get 5-10 of the "right" people stand up make phone call and things would/could be changed before the sun comes up tomo. It's no different when trying to get a job , etc etc ,,,,, the guy with the most pull will be hired over the man that has no connections.

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Old Post 11-07-2019 03:22 PM
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Richard Lambert
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Registered: Aug 2004
Location: Chattanooga, Tn
Posts: 17692

Tarbaby, aren't 45 of those employees just record keepers? Only 2 or 3 are actually "running the hunts"? Are you saying that you think that you should be paid for acting as hunt director or MOH? Didn't most MOH's used to be paid? I think that when clubs started cutting back on expenses, the payment for MOH was the first to go. PKC not paying hunt directors might have had an influence on this. Also a MOH used to have to referee 30-40 very unruly handlers. In today's hunts you only have 10-15. Why don't you put a tip jar on your MOH desk and the hunters could each put in a few dollars if they thought that you were doing a good job.

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Old Post 11-07-2019 03:55 PM
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Corey Gruver
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Registered: Jun 2014
Location: Conneaut Lake, PA
Posts: 1606

What's the point of even having a clubhouse if no one will be there when the hunter's head to the woods? A dry place to hold a bench show when it's raining??

I'd say work on UKC so they start allowing us to hold events at a club member's house. Think of the money that would save

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Old Post 11-07-2019 04:01 PM
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Richard Lambert
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Registered: Aug 2004
Location: Chattanooga, Tn
Posts: 17692

Corey, in that other KC where the hunt director can hunt, all you need is a folding canopy and a table. You can even hold your hunts in the parking lot of a cemetery.

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Old Post 11-07-2019 04:06 PM
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Richard Lambert
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I guess that I misunderstood what you were saying. But you aren't the easiest person to understand with your "Tarspeak".

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Old Post 11-07-2019 04:32 PM
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Corey Gruver
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Registered: Jun 2014
Location: Conneaut Lake, PA
Posts: 1606

quote:
Originally posted by Richard Lambert
Corey, in that other KC where the hunt director can hunt, all you need is a folding canopy and a table. You can even hold your hunts in the parking lot of a cemetery.


Sounds like people want to move toward "coon clubs" operating like "lemonade stands"

At least most lemonade stands still have someone sitting behind the desk.

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Old Post 11-07-2019 05:38 PM
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J Gearing
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Registered: Mar 2007
Location:
Posts: 258

One last reply. I would think changing rules that have been in place for a long time would or should have required some thought. Allowing the hunt director to hunt required no thought. Nothing new. Has worked almost flawlessly for years. I have no problem with the rules being changed. If they needed to be so be it. If the change was done thinking the hunts will double in size I see that as a pipe dream. Sounds very similar to bring the Gr Nt back and watch the numbers increase. There is a big difference between creating a broad base of hunters and those that will do the minimum to take the money. Hope it all works out. Holding hunts with 2 or 3 casts of dogs is not much fun. Probably showing my age. I will shut up now.

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Old Post 11-07-2019 06:39 PM
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JMiller
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Registered: Sep 2005
Location: Alabama
Posts: 109

Things voted on

Someone correct me if I am wrong but who votes on the fee changes? If I understand what I am reading the fee per dog for next year is going up to $7.00 per dog. So with that said who votes on that? I think that is just decided on by UKC, so why cant UKC just decide to let the Hunt Director hunt and not have to stay at the club. Just a thought

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Robert Johnson
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Registered: Dec 2006
Location: Springfield, Ga.
Posts: 3876

Re: Dave

quote:
Originally posted by yadkintar
You can bet on one thing if I got to set there it ainít going to be under a hunt director format there wonít be no panel I will do it under the moh format.

Tar



We agree on that point Tar

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Old Post 11-07-2019 09:49 PM
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Redneck Mafia
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Registered: Aug 2013
Location: Seneca, Mo
Posts: 4232

Re: Re: Dave

quote:
Originally posted by Robert Johnson
We agree on that point Tar

If any moh ruling is appealed it is to a panel. The hunt director simply cuts out the middleman.

In years of having those infamous $ hunts we have had to assemble 2 panels to hear a question, they know the rules upside down and side ways. We have very few questions ever come in at any local events around here ever even the UKC hunts. I recall two in the past year not at our club. One on a question on driving to score dogs (still not found in the rules) & one a guy still wanted to question Cheyenne even after he showed him the rule on the back of the card he just had to hear it from the MOH lol. In multiple years of hosting the zones I believe Mr. Tim has had one question come in. Now I will say that in setting around AO and the WC I have never before seen the likes of frivolous grasping at straws questions in my life! Maybe this very few questions is not typical of all areas of the country??
It seems that around here most hunters seem to display an excellent level of professionalism and sportsmanship At our club we have a MOH that volunteers his time (thank you Shawn) and as almost always a few people hanging out visiting, not all clubs are like ours. Even at ours I sometimes act as a hunt director if he wants to hunt and also at federation events that don't require a MOH so all who wish to compete can saving money that we can give away for something else. Not all clubs have a Jennifer. Many have more overhead and are taking turns sitting in an empty club house when they would be an extra entry or guide.
In order for UKC to ever allow hunt directors to hunt I urge you hunters to act with more professionalism and sportsmanship. LEARN the rules and apply them correctly. QUIT bringing in frivolous questions. REMEMBER there is a hunt of some kind somewhere every night but Sunday your not going to win them all.
Until UKC quits getting a bunch of calls on Monday's and appeals they will not allow hunt directors to hunt regardless of how well it has worked for us in other registries. We would like to blame the rules committee because they should realise that a hunt director can't seat a panel until enough have returned to seat a panel. We can also place blame on those who need to take a look in the mirror. Any who seem to have issues arise on nearly every cast they are on and think they are consistently cheated are the reason that this rule didn't and won't pass as much as many of us would like it to be an option. We all know someone like this... it's never their fault or their dogs, they never just get beat they always got cheated. If UKC no longer has to deal with on a daily basis the headaches of daily issues with problem hunters the likelihood it changes is slim. Be part of the solution. At the club level appoint good knowledgeable judges and teach your young and new comers through these people. As an individual learn the rules and practice good sportsmanship, everything will go smoother. If these things happen maybe at the next rule change year we can get this passed!

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Redneck Mafia
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Aug 2013
Location: Seneca, Mo
Posts: 4232

quote:
Originally posted by yadkintar
Jennifer ukc has stupid questions a lot at hunts because it is to cheap to do so ! $25 for a question to be heard $100 for an appeal would stop a lot of stupid questions especially getting a 45 minute ride back to hear a moh tell you the same thing that is in black and white on the back of the card.


Thatís why the $$$ hunts have fewer questions plus if you show your rump you would get a time out.



Tar


It sure doesn't hurt having to put up the $. Although, until the people with the stupid questions learn the rules and quit behaving like a$$@$ in the woods then making Monday phone calls our asking for hunt directors to hunt is going to keep falling on deaf ears.

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Old Post 11-08-2019 02:55 AM
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Dave Richards
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Registered: Apr 2015
Location: church hill tn
Posts: 3528

Tar

I agree with you on this matter, I absolutely think it's a shame that the hunts have gotten to this point. NO ONE should have to sit at a Club house knowing there is absolutely nothing they can do until the hunts over and they can form a panel to resolve any disputes that arise during the hunt. Makes no sense, especially when they are doing this job for free to help the Clubs have their HUNTS. UKC generates enough income directly and indirectly from these hunts that they should have SOME ONE available every weekend to resolve any disputes or questions from any Club that has a Hunt. UKC is in fact putting too much of a burden on the Clubs when the actual responsibility rests with UKC. While one Club may not seem important to UKC all of the Clubs together generate substantial income for UKC directly and indirectly, revenue from the hunts and registration generated by the hunt format itself. Every club has been hurt by the decline in hunt numbers but the smaller clubs are at a make or break point and need all the help they can get from UKC. These clubs do not need senseless rules handicapping their efforts to survive. Why burden these 1, 2, and 3 cast clubs with a rule making the hunt director stay at the club, makes NO SENSE. Dave

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Dave Richards
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Registered: Apr 2015
Location: church hill tn
Posts: 3528

Tar

It would make more sense if ALL the Clubs holding hunts would band together as a United Group, a few small clubs really have no voice. Unity is a way of getting things done, We can not expect a few to be heard, but a crowd is hard to ignore. I really think UKC should have someone in authority available on the weekends to address any issues that occur in the hunts, that's not asking to much, considering just about all of the hunts happen in Friday and Saturday nights. Our hunts should be a high priority for UKC and as such they should be there when needed. They could have a rotation shift for their staff and have someone available on these nights. Show our Clubs and hunters that we really matter, offer the support that we really need when it's needed the most. Our Clubs are struggling and UKC needs to do their part to ensure as many Clubs survive as possible. Address the issue of a Hunt Director not being able to hunt in these small 1, 2, or 3 cast hunts where every dollar matters and where it makes no sense for someone to sit for hours at a clubhouse, unable to do nothing without a panel. Why UKC officials are not available during these hunting hours is something that needs answers, considering these hunts are their cash cow. Having a big cash payout hunt would not be possible without the dollars generated by these hunts. Quit putting all the burden on the Clubs and hunters that make it all possible. These requests are a desperate plea for help that's badly needed and UKC needs to listen. We have way too many folks doing work for free UKC needs to step up and listen and act accordingly. Dave

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tommy curtis
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Registered: Jul 2006
Location: baxter tennessee
Posts: 258

Kennel club rating

Kennel clubs are like football teams,there always going to be a 1st,2,3,4,.Its up to us as hunters to go with the one that listens to the hunters and clubs and acts on it.Most of the people that votes on these rule donít know which is the front or the back on a dog.I think we need the hunt director to be able to hunt.

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Dave Richards
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Registered: Apr 2015
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UKC

I live UKC, I grew up hunting UKC and while I don't hunt competition hunts very often, I hunt UKC when I do hunt. Having the hunt director being able to hunt is not asking for much, having a UKC Official available during Friday and Saturday nights is not asking for to much. It would be reasonable for UKC to accommodate the hundreds of Clubs by doing this, than asking hundreds of hunters to give up their hunting time free of charge to sit in a Clubhouse staring at the walls not really being able to do anything without a panel. UKC Officials are paid to do their jobs and should be available during hunting times to resolve any problems that arise. Why they have not done this is beyond reason. While the prospect of the Tournament of Champions is exciting, it is the Clubs and the hunters that will make this happen. Change is needed in other areas besides the Rules if UKC is going to be the Big Dog of the competition world. A good start would be having an official available during the Friday and Saturday Hunt times , freeing up the non paid hunters acting as hunt directors, giving the small clubs one more entry that's badly needed. These extra entries alone nationwide should generate more than enough revenue to cover any additional expenses UKC might incur with having an official on call during the hunts. Dave

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Heikki
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Dec 2009
Location: West Virginia
Posts: 68

Clubs & Club Numbers

I can go to at least 12 different clubs within 2 hours of my house & I have been to all of them. You are lucky if anyone of these clubs draw 10 dogs per hunt. You will see the same people with the same dogs at the same clubs, only a very small amount (2-3) of these hunters will go to any other clubs. Most will only go to the club closest to there house, not going & supporting any of the other clubs. Maybe there are to many clubs, maybe UKC should consider each club should have to maintain an average of X-amount of entries per hunt. If they cannot, they lose a couple of hunts the following year, if they canít meet the numbers after 2-3 years of this then they fold it up. Maybe people would travel to other clubs or maybe they would just quit comp hinting, IDK what would help but it seems everything else that is being tried isnít really helping much. So would it really hurt to try?

I know everyone is gonna say it will never happen cause UKC will lose to much money!!

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Dave Richards
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Registered: Apr 2015
Location: church hill tn
Posts: 3528

Heikki

While I have had the same thoughts on this matter, I don't agree that we have to many Clubs. Everyone deserves the right to have a Club and hold hunts, regardless of how many dogs they have entered in a Hunt. There are hundreds of small clubs scattered across the country and yes, everyone of these clubs counts. Our objective should be to make our hunts available to anyone that wants to hunt, not everyone will drive any distance just to hunt, most want to hunt close to home in spots they are familiar with and it's understandable. Shutting down or penalizing small clubs would be a big mistake. The opposite needs to be done we need to do everything we can to preserve our small clubs and encourage others to start a Club where needed. We need UKC'S support now more than ever. It's much easier to keep a big SHIP moving than trying to get it going after it stops. Several large companies have had to pay the price for making those kind of mistakes, taking things for granted just don't work. A successful company never stops trying to be better next year than they were this year. Dave

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