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nextcoonhunters
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jul 2015
Location: mo
Posts: 400

Handling a treed dog

Okay 4 dog cast dog a treed. 2 minutes gone dog b trees split. 4 minutes gone dog c splits from both. Dog d covers b. Now that all dogs are split we'll say 800 apart who has right to handle Their dog according to the rules. Please post the rules with your answer.

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Old Post 11-04-2019 06:22 PM
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yadkintar
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Registered: Jan 2013
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Posts: 9571

Takes a majority to score dog Aís tree he was treed first so he is handled and scored first.


Tar

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Old Post 11-04-2019 06:45 PM
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Dogwhisper
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Registered: Feb 2005
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Scoreing dogs
11:c
As long as the cast is "not" in the process of shining a tree....
"permission shall be given to handle your split treed dog(s).

So all handlers have the "right " to handle their split tree dog(s).
And score them in the most convenient order !.....not necessarily in the called treed order .

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Old Post 11-04-2019 08:56 PM
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nextcoonhunters
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Registered: Jul 2015
Location: mo
Posts: 400

Majority

quote:
Originally posted by yadkintar
Takes a majority to score dog Aís tree he was treed first so he is handled and scored first.


Tar



And what is the majority in a 4 dog cast?

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Old Post 11-04-2019 09:30 PM
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nextcoonhunters
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Registered: Jul 2015
Location: mo
Posts: 400

next year problems

quote:
Originally posted by Dogwhisper
Scoreing dogs
11:c
As long as the cast is "not" in the process of shining a tree....
"permission shall be given to handle your split treed dog(s).

So all handlers have the "right " to handle their split tree dog(s).
And score them in the most convenient order !.....not necessarily in the called treed order .



convenient order may be a problem
Proposal 5. Leash-Locked. (Passed 4-3)
Eliminate leash-lock rule altogether, unless all dogs are declared treed and cast decides to move to a new location after all trees have been scored. If cast decides to move, hunt time shall be stopped while walking to trees with dog(s) on leash. Hunt time shall be called back in during shining time only.

So if you're not moving 1st dog scored gets recut regardless if it treed last. Who decides what the most convenient order is?

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Old Post 11-04-2019 09:38 PM
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Richard Lambert
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Aug 2004
Location: Chattanooga, Tn
Posts: 17659

Until Jan 1st, everyone handles their dog and meets at Dog A's tree to score it and then go to next dog until all trees are scored.
After Jan 1st new rules start and everyone is waiting to see what the official ruling will be.

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Old Post 11-04-2019 10:59 PM
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yadkintar
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jan 2013
Location: Marietta
Posts: 9571

quote:
Originally posted by Richard Lambert
Until Jan 1st, everyone handles their dog and meets at Dog A's tree to score it and then go to next dog until all trees are scored.
After Jan 1st new rules start and everyone is waiting to see what the official ruling will be.




So he said all dogs were treed 800 yards apart so you are all going to split up walk 10 minutes call time out judge is going with them to make sure they handle on the tree tie them all up then walk back to dog Aís tree and score it. When all you had to do is wait to tree your dog when his tree is scored and accomplish the same thing. You got to have 3 out of 4 handlers to score the tree anyways.


Tar

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Old Post 11-05-2019 01:20 AM
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nextcoonhunters
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jul 2015
Location: mo
Posts: 400

quote:
Originally posted by yadkintar
[ You got to have 3 out of 4 handlers to score the tree anyways.
Tar [/B]

Okay so say you have 3 out of 4. 2 vote minus 1 voted circle what happens. That's not the majority of the cast. That's half of the cast voting for minus a quarter of the cast voting circle and the other guy not voting.
3. Each handler must vote or their dog will be
scratched. It takes a majority vote to over-
turn judgeís decision. Any handler that is
not satisfied with the outcome retains the
right to place a question mark (?) on the
card and present his question to the
MOH/panel.
Panels

So I guess you could Scratch the guy for not being there to vote. than Majority would be 2 to 1

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Old Post 11-05-2019 02:01 AM
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yadkintar
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Registered: Jan 2013
Location: Marietta
Posts: 9571

He has to be there unless he withdraws or if there is a non hunting judge. A majority of 3 dog cast would be 2 wouldnít it ?

Tar

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Old Post 11-05-2019 02:11 AM
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Richard Lambert
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Registered: Aug 2004
Location: Chattanooga, Tn
Posts: 17659

Re: Handling a treed dog

quote:
Originally posted by nextcoonhunters
....Now that all dogs are split we'll say 800 apart who has right to handle Their dog according to the rules.....


I just answered the question as asked. Per the rules, everyone can handle their dog by themselves if they want to and meet at A's tree.

Calling time out between trees would only come into play when you left A's tree after scoring it and went to each tree.

Question wasn't asked but a majority of a 4 Dog cast is 3. If only 3 people go to a tree, it is still a 4 Dog cast. Rule does not say "majority of handlers at the tree". Rule says "majority of the cast". So, everyone must go to every tree.

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Old Post 11-05-2019 02:27 AM
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yadkintar
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jan 2013
Location: Marietta
Posts: 9571

Re: Re: Handling a treed dog

quote:
Originally posted by Richard Lambert
I just answered the question as asked. Per the rules, everyone can handle their dog by themselves if they want to and meet at A's tree.

Calling time out between trees would only come into play when you left A's tree after scoring it and went to each tree.

Question wasn't asked but a majority of a 4 Dog cast is 3. If only 3 people go to a tree, it is still a 4 Dog cast. Rule does not say "majority of handlers at the tree". Rule says "majority of the cast". So, everyone must go to every tree.




If you are the judge you are really going to let somebody walk 800 yards buy their self and handle their dog reeeeeeealy !!

Tar

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Old Post 11-05-2019 02:35 AM
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Richard Lambert
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Registered: Aug 2004
Location: Chattanooga, Tn
Posts: 17659

I have done it before. They are "Honor Rules". If we don't have honor, we might as well stay home.
The only catch is, they have to walk 800 yds to their dog's tree, 800 yds back to the tree being scored and than 800 yds back to their tree to score it. Or they can just leave their dog treed, score the first tree with the cast and then everyone can go score their tree.

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Old Post 11-05-2019 02:59 AM
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yadkintar
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jan 2013
Location: Marietta
Posts: 9571

quote:
Originally posted by Richard Lambert
I have done it before. They are "Honor Rules". If we don't have honor, we might as well stay home.
The only catch is, they have to walk 800 yds to their dog's tree, 800 yds back to the tree being scored and than 800 yds back to their tree to score it. Or they can just leave their dog treed, score the first tree with the cast and then everyone can go score their tree.




Isent that what the world hunt redoo was about ? I ainít letting anybody handle their dog by their self !! Especially 800 yards deep.


After the first of the year I will hold off treeing my dog till there is only 2 minutes of shine time left on dog Aís tree he will recut but he will be to late to back me.


Tar

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Old Post 11-05-2019 03:07 AM
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Richard Lambert
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Aug 2004
Location: Chattanooga, Tn
Posts: 17659

quote:
Originally posted by yadkintar
Isn't that what the world hunt redoo was about ? I ainít letting anybody handle their dog by their self !! Especially 800 yards deep.
After the first of the year I will hold off treeing my dog till there is only 2 minutes of shine time left on dog Aís tree he will recut but he will be to late to back me. Tar



The world hunt redo wasn't about anything like that. And I sure am glad that I haven't gone through life with an attitude like that.

After the 1st of the year there will be a lot of different strategies used by some very smart handlers.

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Old Post 11-05-2019 03:43 AM
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MIKE CARDER
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jan 2004
Location: Greenville, Ky
Posts: 4133

Okay here is another question.

Hunt time has ran out, your walking to last dog treed, your walking in an open field, everyone stops about 30 yards from tree and see the hound up on the tree. You ask if you can handle the dog and yes you can is said. About 15 feet from tree the dogs gets excited comes off of tree and starts running around and jumps up on the tree next to it and barks and goes back to original tree and starts treeing again and comes to you. The dog has been there for about 45 minutes. Coon is seen in tree. Trees are close enough that they have branched into one another. Do you minus that dog?

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Old Post 11-05-2019 04:47 AM
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yadkintar
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jan 2013
Location: Marietta
Posts: 9571

quote:
Originally posted by Richard Lambert
The world hunt redo wasn't about anything like that. And I sure am glad that I haven't gone through life with an attitude like that.

After the 1st of the year there will be a lot of different strategies used by some very smart handlers.



9d judge will be the first to arrive at tree.

11c judge shall give handler permission to handle dog on split tree unless cast is in process of shining tree.


So you are going to wait for all three handlers to walk 800 yards both ways to score your dog and while you are there you can tell they either moved their dogs over or they left a tree and retreed and when you ask them they deny it not good business Richard. I will just wait and tree mine till I can go to him if he will stay 5 minutes he should stay 20 then if he donít I donít get minused.


Tar

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Old Post 11-05-2019 08:37 AM
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Richard Lambert
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Registered: Aug 2004
Location: Chattanooga, Tn
Posts: 17659

Oh my goodness Mr Tarbaby, in the original scenario with all dogs treed in just what would you do if you were the handler of Dog A?

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Old Post 11-05-2019 01:55 PM
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yadkintar
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Registered: Jan 2013
Location: Marietta
Posts: 9571

If I had dog A down here I would get to score my dog because these handlers wouldnít be so stupid to tree their dogs that deep and all split up and use valuable hunting time it takes 20 or 30 minutes to walk 800 yards here. Then you tie your dog up walk back to dog A and they blow the reeds out of their sqauller and squall your coon down with your dog tied up and you get a minus for a slick tree. Plus if all the handlers split up and dogs move how you going to vote who knows if the tree they tied their dog to was the one they originally treed on at 800 yards you go to ole spark plug he has a slick persimmon tree whoís going to know if you move him over to a den or you see a coon setting up. I thought you was a super handler ?


Tar

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Old Post 11-05-2019 02:23 PM
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T Felderman
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Location: Bellevue, IA
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Re: Okay here is another question.

quote:
Originally posted by MIKE CARDER
Hunt time has ran out, your walking to last dog treed, your walking in an open field, everyone stops about 30 yards from tree and see the hound up on the tree. You ask if you can handle the dog and yes you can is said. About 15 feet from tree the dogs gets excited comes off of tree and starts running around and jumps up on the tree next to it and barks and goes back to original tree and starts treeing again and comes to you. The dog has been there for about 45 minutes. Coon is seen in tree. Trees are close enough that they have branched into one another. Do you minus that dog?

No, but if the judge is losing good chance it could happen.

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Old Post 11-05-2019 02:30 PM
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Richard Lambert
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Registered: Aug 2004
Location: Chattanooga, Tn
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Oh my goodness, you would make a great politician. All of that typing/talking and you never answered the question, "what would you do in this situation"?

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Old Post 11-05-2019 02:31 PM
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yadkintar
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Registered: Jan 2013
Location: Marietta
Posts: 9571

quote:
Originally posted by Richard Lambert
Oh my goodness, you would make a great politician. All of that typing/talking and you never answered the question, "what would you do in this situation"?



I told you get the hair out of your ears these guys ainít big dummyís down here but hey if you want to walk all over the place and tie your dog and walk all the way back and I got first strike and first tree with a coon. And I squall your coon down and you get a slick tree minus and you wanna burn the whole hunt up walking for nothing go ahead.


Tar

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Old Post 11-05-2019 02:40 PM
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novicane65
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Registered: Dec 2013
Location: Nichols Ny
Posts: 1265

Re: Okay here is another question.

quote:
Originally posted by MIKE CARDER
Hunt time has ran out, your walking to last dog treed, your walking in an open field, everyone stops about 30 yards from tree and see the hound up on the tree. You ask if you can handle the dog and yes you can is said. About 15 feet from tree the dogs gets excited comes off of tree and starts running around and jumps up on the tree next to it and barks and goes back to original tree and starts treeing again and comes to you. The dog has been there for about 45 minutes. Coon is seen in tree. Trees are close enough that they have branched into one another. Do you minus that dog?


If I'm judging the cast no. But I've also been minused for a dog being under a canopy of grapevines with a coon directly over her but the closest tree was 25ft away. The dog in your scenario showed you what tree, then got excited and moved around a little. And if the trees touch each other it really doesn't matter what tree its on.

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Old Post 11-05-2019 02:43 PM
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Richard Lambert
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Location: Chattanooga, Tn
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quote:
Originally posted by yadkintar
I told you get the hair out of your ears these guys ainít big dummyís down here but hey if you want to walk all over the place and tie your dog and walk all the way back and I got first strike and first tree with a coon. And I squall your coon down and you get a slick tree minus and you wanna burn the whole hunt up walking for nothing go ahead.
Tar



I am a little confused but I think that you are saying, " yes you would let all handlers go by themselves if they wanted to and handle their dog and return to score your tree". Is that correct? Isn't that the same as my answer? What are we disagreeing about?

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Old Post 11-05-2019 02:50 PM
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yadkintar
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Registered: Jan 2013
Location: Marietta
Posts: 9571

quote:
Originally posted by Richard Lambert
I am a little confused but I think that you are saying, " yes you would let all handlers go by themselves if they wanted to and handle their dog and return to score your tree". Is that correct? Isn't that the same as my answer? What are we disagreeing about?



I quoted two rules word for word to you that contradict each other I guess I will use the one that suits me best at the time huh ?


And now you know the rest of the story.


Tarbaby

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Old Post 11-05-2019 02:58 PM
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Richard Lambert
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Posts: 17659

Oh my goodness, I bet that you are a real pleasure to draw out with in a nite hunt.

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