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Larry Hall
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jan 2005
Location: NE Indiana
Posts: 376

Will the three minute tree rule and no leash lock punish the deep and lonely dog?

Further will the rule help promote a trailing type dog vs a blow thru the country and pop up a hot one?

Lot of discussion as of late about the new rule changes for UKC that are coming up..

Can you score dogs logically out of order on the way to a dog treed deep if it happens?

Bored - took a couple nights off hunting and about to go stir crazy..

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Old Post 10-28-2019 05:04 PM
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Sfox91
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Aug 2019
Location: East central indiana
Posts: 25

Re: Will the three minute tree rule and no leash lock punish the deep and lonely dog?

quote:
Originally posted by Larry Hall


Bored - took a couple nights off hunting and about to go stir crazy.. [/B]


By law you have to until nov8 unless itís a sanctioned hunt.

But winners will continue to win. But wonít be on the leash as long now. Hope pkc follows suit.

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Old Post 10-28-2019 05:21 PM
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Night Shift
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Registered: Jan 2012
Location: Indiana
Posts: 814

Itís not how deep they get itís how fast they do it.

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D Terrell
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Mar 2017
Location: Georgetown ohio
Posts: 84

quote:
Originally posted by Night Shift
Itís not how deep they get itís how fast they do it.


That a fact

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Old Post 10-28-2019 06:17 PM
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Rolin Blues
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Nov 2005
Location: Iowa
Posts: 2819

hunts

Dog that will tree 2 coon close, will still beat dog deep & lonely under one coon. Sassy, blue female in Indiana, was proving that before she died this summer.

Scoring out of order may depend on what registry you are hunting in says is acceptable. Lots of walking will still be needed if you have to score in order. 3 minute tree/no leash lock rule is really going to speed things up on casts & wear us old guys out. Take care, Ron.

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pamjohnson
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Feb 2012
Location: airville,pa
Posts: 1694

It is all about how fast they get treed. Lots of walking less talking. How close or how far won't matter as long as you can hear them they will get scored.

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yadkintar
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jan 2013
Location: Marietta
Posts: 9625

It keeps an honest strike dog from being punished for treeing coons close as they get to them.


Nothing says they canít still be independent and indifferent but that dog playing the game of tying up the cast for the win is not going to work.


Tar

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Old Post 10-29-2019 12:29 AM
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bowling
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Nov 2008
Location: London, KY
Posts: 1950

If you are carrying a coon dog you will win regardless of leash lock rule I seen plenty dogs tree two singles behind the deep and lonely several times and if they are to deep he may tree three I love the new rule a hustling type dog will destroy the deep and lonely type unless they are super fast

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Allen / UKC
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Registered: Nov 2004
Location: Michigan
Posts: 8669

The only time you may score trees out of order in UKC, is if; all dogs are declared treed AND handled. That won't change in 2020.

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Old Post 10-29-2019 02:42 PM
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yadkintar
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jan 2013
Location: Marietta
Posts: 9625

quote:
Originally posted by Allen / UKC
The only time you may score trees out of order in UKC, is if; all dogs are declared treed AND handled. That won't change in 2020.



Yep but at least if your dog trees a coon close and by time you score it ole blow torch is treed a mile deep you can recut and go score ole blow torch by then yours might have another treed 2 coons beats one coon.


Tar

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Old Post 10-29-2019 03:29 PM
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Larry Hall
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jan 2005
Location: NE Indiana
Posts: 376

Interesting responses, thanks Folks..

SF91
By law you have to until nov8 unless itís a sanctioned hunt.

LOL - not if you live 8 miles from the MI line and hunt up there most of October .. Huge benefit for us northern IN guys.. I've only missed 6 nights across the line this month.

Nightshift - that is what I actually had in mind when asking the question.. Deep and lonely blows thru and is treed 5/8 in 10 minutes on a hot one.. Old cold trailer takes 15 minutes to grub one up 400 right handed after trailing it over 500-600 yards.. Still going to be a slight benefit for deep and lonely just due to time burn on the recast..

The new rule could really punish the dog that just flat won't tree with another and blows out of pocket when one gets treed close and with a coon. Now the close treeing dog has a strong probability of treeing two coons to deep and lonely's one.. Huge advantage and eliminates the automatic strike dogs advantage as Tar alluded to.

Pam Johnson/Allen - you all just trying to kill an fat old man.. Haters!!

Bowling I will agree to disagree with you.. Leash lock absolutely will take an honest, trailing hound and put him on the bench for a good portion of a hunt all too often and he will get beat. Happens all the time, but it's the rules for now. I believe this is a huge step in the right direction by UKC.. Be surprised if it is not forced on the the other KC by the membership soon as well..

This could absolutely change the type of dog that is winning the big hunts and we crazy, butted hunters are breeding to. Score card dogs vs coon dogs.. My .02 worth anyways. Not saying deep and lonely are not coon dogs, because they tree a bunch.. But can this current crop of big time winners produce a dog that can take a track away from three other hounds in a cast and tree it first and stay with company? That is a competition coonhound.. Not one who can take enough Ecollar correction to always be deep, alone and not have to compete on trailing the coon up and treeing first.

Rollin Blues - i hunted with your Sassy female once before she died, was a nice bitch for a blue dog .. She won the cast that night by falling treed with just a few mnutes left in the cast and having a coon.. did it right.. Hated to hear she passed.

Great conversatin all, one more night off and back to MI tomorrow night.. My best to you all.

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Old Post 10-29-2019 03:45 PM
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Rolin Blues
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Nov 2005
Location: Iowa
Posts: 2819

Larry Hall

Sorry to say i didn't own her (i tried, but didn't get job done), Steve Kitchen owned her. I have owned half of LOU with him for 3 yrs., but sold my half back to him after Sassy died, so he could keep his line of dogs going in a direction he wanted to go. Take care, Ron.

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Old Post 10-29-2019 04:18 PM
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ChrisS22
New UKC Forum Member

Registered: Oct 2019
Location:
Posts: 3

IMO, it's not so much the distance that's important as it's the dog that gets treed FIRST. I don't care how far Ole Yonder goes to tree his coon, as long as mine gets treed before he does I have the advantage.

My hounds are loners so hopefully what's gonna happen is... mine is going get treed first within 500-700yds, we are going to score him and while scoring mine Yonder gets treed. After we score mine first I'm going to point him the direction of Yonder and before we finish that 3/4mi walk I'm treed again (most likely I'll get treed before we reach Yonder). As long as I get treed FIRST and we don't score dogs out of order I'm going to keep recasting... advantage me!

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Old Post 10-29-2019 06:23 PM
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Larry Hall
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jan 2005
Location: NE Indiana
Posts: 376

Chris22 that is the ideal situation I would say. Going to be a fun year I believe.

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rooster731
UKC Forum Member

Registered: May 2016
Location: Bethel springs TN
Posts: 76

Alot can depend on the guide, the type dog the guide has and what part of the country your in as well. If im hunting a 100 strike deep an lonely im not dropping you where you can tree behind me. The coons are gonna be deep and deeper.

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Old Post 10-30-2019 12:06 AM
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Sgraves
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Dec 2017
Location:
Posts: 252

Deep or close, it really doesnít matter. A dog that can get gone an get treed quick cut loose after cut loose is the ticket. Hereís the thing thatís gonna hurt people. That dog has to have a coon when he parks it . We poke an make fun of the hunts that are won with circle or minus. But the guys that are serious has a coon in the tree.

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Sgraves
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Registered: Dec 2017
Location:
Posts: 252

quote:
Originally posted by rooster731
Alot can depend on the guide, the type dog the guide has and what part of the country your in as well. If im hunting a 100 strike deep an lonely im not dropping you where you can tree behind me. The coons are gonna be deep and deeper.
Where you find all them deep an deeper running coon at ? 100 strick every drop .

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Reuben
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Nov 2011
Location: Freeport,TX
Posts: 871

Seems like the rules are gravitating more in favor of the preferred type of coon dog...

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Sonny Phipps
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Sep 2007
Location: Glenmont,Ohio
Posts: 853

quote:
Originally posted by Reuben
Seems like the rules are gravitating more in favor of the preferred type of coon dog...


For sure the tight to silent dog thatís a loner

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yadkintar
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jan 2013
Location: Marietta
Posts: 9625

quote:
Originally posted by Sonny Phipps
For sure the tight to silent dog thatís a loner



Well I donít like to have to listen to ole ratchet Jaws for two hours either.


Tar

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Sonny Phipps
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Sep 2007
Location: Glenmont,Ohio
Posts: 853

quote:
Originally posted by yadkintar
Well I donít like to have to listen to ole ratchet Jaws for two hours either.


Tar



Me either

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Bill(Chew)
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Washington, NC
Posts: 3114

I don't like a ratchet mouth either but I also don't want to have a dog working a track not saying anything.

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Old Post 10-31-2019 01:58 AM
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yadkintar
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jan 2013
Location: Marietta
Posts: 9625

quote:
Originally posted by Bill(Chew)
I don't like a ratchet mouth either but I also don't want to have a dog working a track not saying anything.




What I am talking about is they collar those dogs and I guess every drop 4 coons get in a football huddle out there about 5 yards and they cut them loose they all get struck immediately next thing you know they are split treed long distances all over the place and time you get them all gathered the hunts over. Who ever had first strike with a coon wins.


Tar

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Old Post 10-31-2019 02:17 AM
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high ridge
UKC Forum Member

Registered: May 2008
Location: Kentucky
Posts: 3047

There are so many scenarios that can play out that it doesnít matter if the dog is deep and lonely or close and covering
As long as you got a dog that will strike,take track forward, locate the correct tree and stay you will win your fair share.
Train the dog not to take stupid minus and your work will pay off with the winner you are leading

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Josh Michaelis
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Registered: Jan 2004
Location: North MO
Posts: 2100

quote:
Originally posted by yadkintar
It keeps an honest strike dog from being punished for treeing coons close as they get to them.


Nothing says they canít still be independent and indifferent but that dog playing the game of tying up the cast for the win is not going to work.


Tar



A low end strike dog isn't gonna leash lock nothing if the handler can help it.

I hunt quarter strike dogs all the time, and I rarely tree mine until they turn loose. Last thing we need is to open that strike back up.

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