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Bruce m. Conkey
UKC Forum Member

Registered: May 2016
Location: Palatka, FL
Posts: 4243

Tar what do you say about these numbers?

320 or so last night was an impressive number.
80 cast then 20 cast. Then 20 winners. With all the results reported and everyone in bed so it can be done again tonight.

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Old Post 10-22-2019 02:05 PM
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T Felderman
UKC Forum Member

Registered: May 2005
Location: Bellevue, IA
Posts: 1730

I'd say the numbers were expected.

The reporting is very impressive!

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Old Post 10-22-2019 02:21 PM
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Richard Lambert
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Aug 2004
Location: Chattanooga, Tn
Posts: 17739

Excellant job but but all cast winners advance so scores don't matter. The cast winners are sent back out as soon as they come back in without waiting on deadline. Late round casts are sent back out from satellite clubs. Casts are drawn out by 5:30 pm. Casts are in a hurry to get back and either go back out or get to bed and get ready for the next night. They have lots of help, probably 5 or 6 paid experienced guys/gals making sure everything runs smoothly. All of that makes it easier but it is still a very well run hunt. It is amazing how smoothly a professional coon hunt can be run. Everyone is very serious. They are there to hunt, not visit or b.s. It is a very different atmosphere, all business.

Last edited by Richard Lambert on 10-22-2019 at 02:42 PM

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novicane65
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Dec 2013
Location: Nichols Ny
Posts: 1278

PKC World hunt

179 casts hunted
Not 1 cast winner won with minus
If anyone hasn't experienced that hunt they should go. Like King Richard said, "It's all business". The hunting is good, the guides take pride where they put you. The satellite clubs are good. If there's any questions they get heard in a timely manner.

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Eric DePue

PKC CH Wax's Late Night Boom
And
Partners on a few common trashy young dogs

Gone but not forgotten

GrNtCh, PKC Ch Hillbilly Bildo
Pr Broken Oaks Wild Blue Gypsy

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Old Post 10-22-2019 03:13 PM
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Richard Lambert
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Aug 2004
Location: Chattanooga, Tn
Posts: 17739

Actually as it was pointed out to me they hunted 79 casts. Their numbers started at 100.

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JB Cobb
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Registered: Nov 2006
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 632

Thatís apparently 316 hounds....Not to shabby

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Bruce m. Conkey
UKC Forum Member

Registered: May 2016
Location: Palatka, FL
Posts: 4243

.

Richard is right about a different atmosphere. That is what is great about our sport. There is something for everyone on any level of budget or dog power.

No one atmosphere is the best. You receive joy out of life by finding your lane and sticking to it.

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Old Post 10-22-2019 04:02 PM
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Richard Lambert
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Aug 2004
Location: Chattanooga, Tn
Posts: 17739

Mr Conkey is exactly right, different hunts for different people. One hunt is not "better" for everyone. Decide what atmosphere you like best and attend that type hunt. Do you like to "visit" or are you serious and "all business"? Or are you a little bit of both like I am? It is about impossible for one kennel club to please everyone. I guess that is why we have two different ones.

Last edited by Richard Lambert on 10-22-2019 at 04:46 PM

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Old Post 10-22-2019 04:43 PM
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Cthornberry
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Aug 2015
Location: Mayflower Ar
Posts: 21

I love to coon hunt but I have to disagree you ONLY receive true joy in life from Jesus Christ

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Old Post 10-22-2019 04:53 PM
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Bruce m. Conkey
UKC Forum Member

Registered: May 2016
Location: Palatka, FL
Posts: 4243

.

My heart if filled with True Joy, even on the darkest days.

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Old Post 10-22-2019 06:33 PM
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James B Grice
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Aug 2006
Location: Latta, SC
Posts: 897

NO Doubt those are impressive numbers MANY FOLKS BEHIND THE SCENES MAKIN IT HAPPEN Great job BY PKC GUIDES ,JUDGES and SATALLITE CLUBS

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Old Post 10-22-2019 07:09 PM
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Sgraves
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Dec 2017
Location:
Posts: 252

Am gonna ask this question again. Since ukc has gone to basically the same format. Will the winter classic still be a two night hunt ? Or will the ones that win on Friday night advance to Saturday? Or will it stay the same an you will have to have 2 cast wins an high scoring dog wins the whole thing? There is a lot of feeder buckets going on at that hunt.

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Old Post 10-22-2019 08:31 PM
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Sgraves
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Registered: Dec 2017
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Then again I would like to see the Wednesday an Thursday slam hunts be the two nights to qualify for Friday night. Saturday night will determine the overall winner. Make it interesting.

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Old Post 10-22-2019 08:38 PM
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Richard Lambert
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Aug 2004
Location: Chattanooga, Tn
Posts: 17739

PKC doesn't use this same format for their Major Events either. The four high scoring dogs hunt in a late round for overall. And you don't get the results until the next day. As was stated by Mr Conkey above, different strokes for different folks.

Last edited by Richard Lambert on 10-22-2019 at 10:05 PM

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Old Post 10-22-2019 10:03 PM
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Sgraves
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Registered: Dec 2017
Location:
Posts: 252

quote:
Originally posted by Richard Lambert
PKC doesn't use this same format for their Major Events either. The four high scoring dogs hunt in a late round for overall. And you don't get the results until the next day. As was stated by Mr Conkey above, different strokes for different folks.
The final four just won all their cast to make it to the final four do they not? Has nothing to do with a high scoring dog. Maybe wrong, have been before.

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Old Post 10-22-2019 10:11 PM
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Dave Richards
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Registered: Apr 2015
Location: church hill tn
Posts: 3549

Major Hunts

Until we go to a cast winner elimination style hunt format, I do not see how anyone can really say we have a true champion. High score DOES NOT and never has proved anything other than the dog won it's cast. Score is so dependent on the draw, the best dog can not control the score in other casts. Crowning a champion based on high score in their cast alone is just like drawing straws for the winner. Every major hunt should be a cast winner elimination format to crown the TRUE CHAMPION. UKC has taken positive steps in the Night Champion and Grand Night Champion format, now it's time to upgrade the format for Major Hunts. Everyone that attends these hunts deserve a fair chance to win and there is nothing fair about a high score system when ALL DOGS are not competing on the same ground at the same time. No dog can be expected to do anything but win its cast. Eliminate the luck of the draw and who gets the honey holes, make these hunts fair to every cast. Dave

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Old Post 10-22-2019 10:31 PM
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Sgraves
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Registered: Dec 2017
Location:
Posts: 252

Re: Major Hunts

quote:
Originally posted by Dave Richards
Until we go to a cast winner elimination style hunt format, I do not see how anyone can really say we have a true champion. High score DOES NOT and never has proved anything other than the dog won it's cast. Score is so dependent on the draw, the best dog can not control the score in other casts. Crowning a champion based on high score in their cast alone is just like drawing straws for the winner. Every major hunt should be a cast winner elimination format to crown the TRUE CHAMPION. UKC has taken positive steps in the Night Champion and Grand Night Champion format, now it's time to upgrade the format for Major Hunts. Everyone that attends these hunts deserve a fair chance to win and there is nothing fair about a high score system when ALL DOGS are not competing on the same ground at the same time. No dog can be expected to do anything but win its cast. Eliminate the luck of the draw and who gets the honey holes, make these hunts fair to every cast. Dave
Thank you Mr Dave , what you are saying is what am getting at. I consider the winter classic to be a major ukc hunt. I donít live far from batesville. Great hunting. Feeder buckets, corn piles are a major game plan in that hunt.

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Old Post 10-22-2019 10:46 PM
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Sgraves
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Dec 2017
Location:
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quote:
Originally posted by Richard Lambert
Maybe...

At a Major Event where you have more than 16 dogs, it is not feasible to use a cast winner format. Just think about what you are proposing. I am sure that UKC has. You have to use a high scoring dog format. Both kennel clubs use a cast winner format with a few tweaks for their World Championship. Both use a high scoring dog format for their Major Events.

Am sorry, but I do believe everything is based on a cast winner format in pkc .

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Old Post 10-23-2019 12:09 AM
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Dave Richards
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Registered: Apr 2015
Location: church hill tn
Posts: 3549

Mr. Lambert

I disagree, if you want a quality hunt where the winner actually won the hunt, you need a cast winner format. The major hunts could be treated just like a World Championship Hunt is treated, if it can be done in that hunt, it can be done in the other major hunts. Change the format to one that is fair to all, the current system is flawed and favors certain casts that get the best draw. If a hunt is worth having, it should be worth the effort to make it fair to all. I honestly do not know how anyone can support a hunt system that relies on who hunts where, where a cast winner is just a cast winner. If you watch the $ KC hunts you will see that a high score in one cast means absolutely nothing as to what dog wins the hunt. A cast winner is just a cast winner, no more no less than any other cast winner. They hunted different ground, different coon population and in some cases different weather. Why would score alone be a valid measure in those cases. Just because WE have always done things this way DOES NOT in fact make it right. You want attendance to increase and the hunt to be mean something, make it equitable for ALL casts, not a few that draw the right spots. These hunts are planned well in advance and changing the format should NOT be major problem. Until these changes are made if ever, just call the dog that scores the most points HIGH SCORE and not the hunt Winner. Dave

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Old Post 10-23-2019 12:14 AM
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rooster731
UKC Forum Member

Registered: May 2016
Location: Bethel springs TN
Posts: 76

With casts hunting out of satellite clubs immediatly going back out against other winners from that satellite club it could be done i think. Might have to expand the number of satellite clubs to make it happen with a large hunt such as winter classic. Theoretically you could hunt 1000 dogs early thursday 250 cast winners late thursday 64 cast winners early friday 16 late friday final 4 on saturday.

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Dave Richards
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Registered: Apr 2015
Location: church hill tn
Posts: 3549

Mr. Lambert

Logic says that if you can do it for one hunt, you can do it for any hunt you choose. If you want a hunt to be a premier hunt where you actually have a WINNER, you make it fair to ALL CASTS. Any hunt based on high score is just that, you do not have a WINNER, you only have a dog that scored the most points in it's cast. How can anyone actually believe they WON a hunt by only beating the dogs in their cast? Heck, it would be better to take all cast winners and draw from a hat, than just basing the winner on score, at least you would have an equal chance to be drawn from a hat. Do not tell me that a high score in one cast equates to a dog being better than another dog hunting in a different place and scoring less points. Make these big hunts a premier event and have cast winner elimination format to determine the real winner, do not pretend that a high score in one cast equals a champion. It has never been right and never will be right, no excuses can justify being wrong. Dave

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Old Post 10-23-2019 01:35 AM
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yadkintar
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jan 2013
Location: Marietta
Posts: 9630

Wow look what I missed I been gone all day lol. But their numbers are impressive.


Tar

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Old Post 10-23-2019 01:59 AM
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Dave Richards
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Registered: Apr 2015
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Posts: 3549

Mr. Lambert

Rather that a smart remark to my post, please enlighten us with your take on high score being a WINNER of a major hunt, when the dog only won it's cast. If you can not offer us viable reasons why this is the best answer, do not accuse me of sitting behind my computer telling everyone they are wrong. I have the same right to an opinion as you do, just show me and everyone else why the high score in one cast should be the winner of a major hunt. Please educate us on why the other cast winners are losers, even though old high score never hunted against them. I am all ears, please respond. Dave

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Old Post 10-23-2019 02:16 AM
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novicane65
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Dec 2013
Location: Nichols Ny
Posts: 1278

Re: PKC World hunt

[QUOTE]Originally posted by novicane65
179 casts hunted
Not 1 cast winner won with minus
If anyone hasn't experienced that hunt they should go. Like King Richard said, "It's all business". The hunting is good, the guides take pride where they put you. The satellite clubs are good. If there's any questions they get heard in a timely manner.
[/QUOT

My mistake, I thought of it a few minutes ago. It was 79 casts. I forgot they start at 100.

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Eric DePue

PKC CH Wax's Late Night Boom
And
Partners on a few common trashy young dogs

Gone but not forgotten

GrNtCh, PKC Ch Hillbilly Bildo
Pr Broken Oaks Wild Blue Gypsy

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Old Post 10-23-2019 02:39 AM
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Dave Richards
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Registered: Apr 2015
Location: church hill tn
Posts: 3549

Sgraves

Hunting off feeder buckets, etc. Is exactly why HIGH SCORE means nothing. It is deplorable that casts that have to hunt game lands or other less favorable spots have to compete with bucket hunting casts for high score. A cast winner elimination style format would eliminate the inequity, since the hunt Winner would have to compete in more than 1 cast. Why would anyone oppose a cast winner elimination style format that truly wants a real champion thst earned it. I can see those who have the honey hole spots wanting to maintain the high score concept, but what about those folks who travel long distance only to get a bad draw, but still win their cast only to not even place in the hunt. Cast winners advancing equals the playing field and negates the honey hole effect of high score winner. Dave

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