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trevorwade09
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jun 2012
Location: Tennessee
Posts: 788

New Advisor Column

Here is some material for you all to read up on. The remaining rule changes will be covered in the December issue.

https://www.ukcdogs.com/coonhound-news

https://www.ukcdogs.com/docs/huntin...vember-2019.pdf

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Old Post 11-06-2019 05:37 PM
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Redneck Mafia
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Aug 2013
Location: Seneca, Mo
Posts: 4240

Thank you Trevor and for everyone that had a hand in putting it all together in a way that can be followed and made sense of aka nixing the one that needed it.

__________________
Cheyenne & Jennifer Cummings
Seneca , MO
(417)317-4815
GRNITECH PKC SCH REDNECK MAFIA
NAT GRNITECH GRCH GRNITECH(3) PKC PCH REDNECK BACKWOODS SHACK
2014 OK STATE CH, 2015 MO PKC LEADER, 2016 PKC NATIONALS SEMIFINALIST, 2016 UKC TOP 20, 2O17 UKC WORLD CHAMPIONSHIP 3RD PLACE, 2018 PKC SENIOR SHOWDOWN TRUCK HUNT FINAL 4, 2018 MO PKC STATE CHAMPION, 2019 AUTUMN OAKS NATIONAL GRNITE CH, 2019 PKC WORLD CH SEMIFINALIST.
GRNITECH CH PKC CH REDNECK SHACK ATTACK aka TAC 2018 OKLAHOMA STATE CHAMPION

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Old Post 11-06-2019 06:02 PM
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nextcoonhunters
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jul 2015
Location: mo
Posts: 404

Sounds good

Little change on the tree, (3min with count down) and the rest common sense and common courtesy. I'm game. Where's the first hunt in MO?

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Old Post 11-06-2019 06:16 PM
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Richard Lambert
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Aug 2004
Location: Chattanooga, Tn
Posts: 17731

Oh my goodness, new rule changes now make a lot more sense. All we need now is to see what the new no leash lock rule will look like.

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Old Post 11-06-2019 07:11 PM
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Redneck Mafia
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Aug 2013
Location: Seneca, Mo
Posts: 4240

Re: Sounds good

quote:
Originally posted by nextcoonhunters
Little change on the tree, (3min with count down) and the rest common sense and common courtesy. I'm game. Where's the first hunt in MO?

We've got a double header slam mid January @ Seneca.

__________________
Cheyenne & Jennifer Cummings
Seneca , MO
(417)317-4815
GRNITECH PKC SCH REDNECK MAFIA
NAT GRNITECH GRCH GRNITECH(3) PKC PCH REDNECK BACKWOODS SHACK
2014 OK STATE CH, 2015 MO PKC LEADER, 2016 PKC NATIONALS SEMIFINALIST, 2016 UKC TOP 20, 2O17 UKC WORLD CHAMPIONSHIP 3RD PLACE, 2018 PKC SENIOR SHOWDOWN TRUCK HUNT FINAL 4, 2018 MO PKC STATE CHAMPION, 2019 AUTUMN OAKS NATIONAL GRNITE CH, 2019 PKC WORLD CH SEMIFINALIST.
GRNITECH CH PKC CH REDNECK SHACK ATTACK aka TAC 2018 OKLAHOMA STATE CHAMPION

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Old Post 11-06-2019 07:51 PM
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nextcoonhunters
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jul 2015
Location: mo
Posts: 404

Sounds fun

It was fun last year, and wet. Hopefully better weather this year and if I can I'll see you then.

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Old Post 11-07-2019 04:48 PM
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Pat Bizich
UKC Forum Member

Registered: May 2004
Location: northeast
Posts: 1238

Once again I bring attention to all what I believe to be an error in this Advisor issue.
Am I wrong? A slip? A typo ?
How many of you caught it ?

__________________
IT SEEMS THAT EVERYTIME A BREED OR LINE OF DOGS GET POPULAR IT EVENTUALLY LEADS TO ITS RUINATION BY UNINFORMED PEOPLE BREEDING WITHOUT DOING THEIR RESEARCH FIRST.

Gone but never forgotten:
NtChGrCh Dryfork Punkin
NtChGrCh Dryfork Little Blue Baby Doll
2009 Pa Show Dog Of The Year
GrCh Dryfork Little Black Book

Home of:

2009,2013,2018 Pa. State
Show Handler Of The Year
GrCh Dryfork Black Dog Raine
Gr.Ch. Black Dog Black Cherry
Gr.Ch. Make My Day Sunny
2018 Pa. Show Dog Of Year
Gr.Ch. Batman's Poison Ivy
2011&2013 WTDA Pa State Champion
2011&2013 Overall Hunt For The Cure
Ch. Jay's Greenridge Heidi
In memory of my best friend "Jay"

Last edited by Pat Bizich on 11-08-2019 at 06:25 AM

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Old Post 11-08-2019 06:21 AM
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Lance Laymon
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jul 2006
Location: Deputy, Indiana
Posts: 287

quote:
Originally posted by Pat Bizich
Once again I bring attention to all what I believe to be an error in this Advisor issue.
Am I wrong? A slip? A typo ?
How many of you caught it ?

Life is to short to focus on the mistakes.

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Old Post 11-08-2019 12:05 PM
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Pat Bizich
UKC Forum Member

Registered: May 2004
Location: northeast
Posts: 1238

As a licensed MOH it is my duty to focus on rule changes , official interpretations ,and what is written in the Advisor.

The first paragraph of score card:
In addition to the rules on the scorecard, the Official UKC Coonhound Rulebook and the most recent Coonhound Advisor columns in COONHOUND BLOODLINES and on the UKC website, contain additional rules, statements of policies and interpretations of UKC rules pertaining to the conducting of UKC events.

When you are writing a rule, the guys that look for ways to bend the rules to win will focus on those "MIS- PRINTS" as a way to win because it is printed in the Advisor.
Just like my other post that no one will comment on "to minus on a dead carcass" probably because someone messed up.
When the new grey Advisor came out years ago there was a mistake. I called attention to it within days after it was issued at A.O that year. Alan said it was wrong. He also commented a correction would be printed in the Advisor column . Never has.
Later at a nite hunt the following year I could not convince a licensed MOH that the book was wrong.
His exact words were " it is in the Advisor and that was the way he would rule and let UKC figure it out "
So those mistakes can have consequences and need to be admitted to for proper corrective measures no matter who's feelings get hurt.

__________________
IT SEEMS THAT EVERYTIME A BREED OR LINE OF DOGS GET POPULAR IT EVENTUALLY LEADS TO ITS RUINATION BY UNINFORMED PEOPLE BREEDING WITHOUT DOING THEIR RESEARCH FIRST.

Gone but never forgotten:
NtChGrCh Dryfork Punkin
NtChGrCh Dryfork Little Blue Baby Doll
2009 Pa Show Dog Of The Year
GrCh Dryfork Little Black Book

Home of:

2009,2013,2018 Pa. State
Show Handler Of The Year
GrCh Dryfork Black Dog Raine
Gr.Ch. Black Dog Black Cherry
Gr.Ch. Make My Day Sunny
2018 Pa. Show Dog Of Year
Gr.Ch. Batman's Poison Ivy
2011&2013 WTDA Pa State Champion
2011&2013 Overall Hunt For The Cure
Ch. Jay's Greenridge Heidi
In memory of my best friend "Jay"

Last edited by Pat Bizich on 11-08-2019 at 01:01 PM

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Old Post 11-08-2019 12:47 PM
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yadkintar
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jan 2013
Location: Marietta
Posts: 9621

Pat you talking about scratch for registered dogs or minus for champion cast ?


Tar

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Old Post 11-08-2019 02:12 PM
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jdc
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Aug 2012
Location: MO
Posts: 265

I noticed something I thought was a little off when I read the INFO that was submitted above. Is the next available rule nixed completely when coon is seen because the first paragraph sounds like it is, or is it going to be there and just always be 25-. The reason I ask is because the 2nd column has a scenario that minuses a dog 25 for being there when the coon is seen. Not sure if I read this incorrectly or they typed this incorrectly?

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660-351-4941
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Rick Winn

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Old Post 11-08-2019 05:25 PM
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Richard Lambert
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Aug 2004
Location: Chattanooga, Tn
Posts: 17731

Oh my goodness, talk about out of context, first part of that scenario says, "things scored incorrectly". Awarding next available will be the same as before. The only change will be that you only "award" 25 points. As before that only happens for slick or off game trees.

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Old Post 11-09-2019 02:48 PM
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Pat Bizich
UKC Forum Member

Registered: May 2004
Location: northeast
Posts: 1238

quote:
Originally posted by jdc
I noticed something I thought was a little off when I read the INFO that was submitted above. Is the next available rule nixed completely when coon is seen because the first paragraph sounds like it is, or is it going to be there and just always be 25-. The reason I ask is because the 2nd column has a scenario that minuses a dog 25 for being there when the coon is seen. Not sure if I read this incorrectly or they typed this incorrectly?


BINGO !!!
I re-read those paragraphs about 6 times thinking I was missing something.
Hey, we all make mistakes . Probably a mental mess up . Easy thing to do.
I just want to make sure everyone understands it is just that and not the way it is meant to score it on closed trees with coon. " PROPOSAL 7 WAS NIXED "
He was talking about off game in that paragraph. I can only speculate that was the true intent.

__________________
IT SEEMS THAT EVERYTIME A BREED OR LINE OF DOGS GET POPULAR IT EVENTUALLY LEADS TO ITS RUINATION BY UNINFORMED PEOPLE BREEDING WITHOUT DOING THEIR RESEARCH FIRST.

Gone but never forgotten:
NtChGrCh Dryfork Punkin
NtChGrCh Dryfork Little Blue Baby Doll
2009 Pa Show Dog Of The Year
GrCh Dryfork Little Black Book

Home of:

2009,2013,2018 Pa. State
Show Handler Of The Year
GrCh Dryfork Black Dog Raine
Gr.Ch. Black Dog Black Cherry
Gr.Ch. Make My Day Sunny
2018 Pa. Show Dog Of Year
Gr.Ch. Batman's Poison Ivy
2011&2013 WTDA Pa State Champion
2011&2013 Overall Hunt For The Cure
Ch. Jay's Greenridge Heidi
In memory of my best friend "Jay"

Last edited by Pat Bizich on 11-09-2019 at 04:24 PM

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Old Post 11-09-2019 03:49 PM
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Pat Bizich
UKC Forum Member

Registered: May 2004
Location: northeast
Posts: 1238

quote:
Originally posted by yadkintar
Pat you talking about scratch for registered dogs or minus for champion cast ?


Tar



No. The rule to award next available on closed trees with coon seen was not passed because of un-intended consequences of the new leash lock rule. See first column.
But in second column a scenario as written has you awarding 25- on a closed tree with a coon seen.

quote:
Originally posted by Richard Lambert
Oh my goodness, talk about out of context, first part of that scenario says, "things scored incorrectly". Awarding next available will be the same as before. The only change will be that you only "award" 25 points. As before that only happens for slick or off game trees.


No Richard no out of context. I understood that entirely.
The way I do understand this column the wording will be changed. Next available on dogs shut out to only be liable for 25- on off game/slick trees. Not coon. But second column used coon in his scenario and awarded 25-.

__________________
IT SEEMS THAT EVERYTIME A BREED OR LINE OF DOGS GET POPULAR IT EVENTUALLY LEADS TO ITS RUINATION BY UNINFORMED PEOPLE BREEDING WITHOUT DOING THEIR RESEARCH FIRST.

Gone but never forgotten:
NtChGrCh Dryfork Punkin
NtChGrCh Dryfork Little Blue Baby Doll
2009 Pa Show Dog Of The Year
GrCh Dryfork Little Black Book

Home of:

2009,2013,2018 Pa. State
Show Handler Of The Year
GrCh Dryfork Black Dog Raine
Gr.Ch. Black Dog Black Cherry
Gr.Ch. Make My Day Sunny
2018 Pa. Show Dog Of Year
Gr.Ch. Batman's Poison Ivy
2011&2013 WTDA Pa State Champion
2011&2013 Overall Hunt For The Cure
Ch. Jay's Greenridge Heidi
In memory of my best friend "Jay"

Last edited by Pat Bizich on 11-09-2019 at 04:19 PM

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Old Post 11-09-2019 04:05 PM
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Richard Lambert
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Aug 2004
Location: Chattanooga, Tn
Posts: 17731

Oh my goodness first sentence of that paragraph says, "Let me make it clear, scoring points that we think a dog should get is not correct". I guess that he didn't make it "perfectly" clear.

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Old Post 11-09-2019 05:02 PM
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Pat Bizich
UKC Forum Member

Registered: May 2004
Location: northeast
Posts: 1238

LOL We have a failure to communicate LOL
You and I are talking about two different things.
In that paragraph you are referring he was clarifying if a dog comes into a tree in less then a minute but is never called treed we can't say it should get 75-. The most it can get is 25- when shut out. Period.

I understand what you are saying. Trevor is saying you can't give them 75- because you know they were at the tree long before it was closed. Most you can award is 25-. The big BUTTTTT is he used it on a coon and awarded 25- and not 75- everyone thinks it should get.
Therefore " TREVORS QUOTE"make it clear that awarding dog’s points that we “think” it should get when scoring them is not correct. "

No dog to receive minus "tree "points for being at a "closed" tree that has a coon.
The scenario in BloodLines has you awarding 25- .
Here it is copied and pasted.
""I would also like to make it clear that awarding dog’s points that we “think” it should get when scoring them is not correct.
An example would be: Dog A is blowing the top out of a tree in front of us. Dog B comes in and covers the tree 30 seconds into tree time. Handler of Dog B chooses not to tree his dog, for whatever reason, and they head into the tree. Upon arrival, both dogs are handled, and the coon is spotted. Dog B will be awarded 25 tree points to be minused instead of a possible 75 points, even though some are pretty sure he was there before the two minutes were up""

If he had used off game or slick tree in above scenario we would not even be discussing this as it would be the right way to score under the new rules

__________________
IT SEEMS THAT EVERYTIME A BREED OR LINE OF DOGS GET POPULAR IT EVENTUALLY LEADS TO ITS RUINATION BY UNINFORMED PEOPLE BREEDING WITHOUT DOING THEIR RESEARCH FIRST.

Gone but never forgotten:
NtChGrCh Dryfork Punkin
NtChGrCh Dryfork Little Blue Baby Doll
2009 Pa Show Dog Of The Year
GrCh Dryfork Little Black Book

Home of:

2009,2013,2018 Pa. State
Show Handler Of The Year
GrCh Dryfork Black Dog Raine
Gr.Ch. Black Dog Black Cherry
Gr.Ch. Make My Day Sunny
2018 Pa. Show Dog Of Year
Gr.Ch. Batman's Poison Ivy
2011&2013 WTDA Pa State Champion
2011&2013 Overall Hunt For The Cure
Ch. Jay's Greenridge Heidi
In memory of my best friend "Jay"

Last edited by Pat Bizich on 11-09-2019 at 06:14 PM

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Richard Lambert
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Aug 2004
Location: Chattanooga, Tn
Posts: 17731

Oh my goodness, in the first part of the article he states that the " being at a closed tree rule" would be left as is. Then in the scenario, he clarifies to say dogs would only be awarded 25 points instead of 75. Surely everyone knows what the new rule is and how to apply it beginning on Jan 1st.
Are you saying that you are confused and don't know how to apply the new rule? I bet that even Tarbaby knows what this new rule is and how to apply it.

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Old Post 11-09-2019 06:32 PM
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yadkintar
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jan 2013
Location: Marietta
Posts: 9621

Yeah I get that part but I had to read the part right above that several times I thought they had it backwards but it was just the way the parentheses were that made it look that way.


Tar

Last edited by yadkintar on 11-09-2019 at 10:16 PM

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Old Post 11-09-2019 08:36 PM
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Richard Lambert
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Aug 2004
Location: Chattanooga, Tn
Posts: 17731

That Tarbaby is a lot smarter than he looks.

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Old Post 11-09-2019 08:44 PM
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yadkintar
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jan 2013
Location: Marietta
Posts: 9621

Only a 25- will be a blessing sometimes lol. I usually got 900- before they can get me shut down lol.



Tar

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Old Post 11-09-2019 10:19 PM
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yadkintar
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jan 2013
Location: Marietta
Posts: 9621

Only a 25- will be a blessing sometimes lol. I usually got 900- before they can get me shut down lol.



Tar

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trevorwade09
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jun 2012
Location: Tennessee
Posts: 788

Pat, you are right. That was an oversight on my part. It was supposed to read slick or off game in place of coon seen and I just completely missed it. I only read this article 100 times and still missed it, just needed a new set of eyes. I will get this fixed on the one available on the website and revisit it in the December issue of the Advisor for Coonhound Bloodlines.

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Richard Lambert
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Aug 2004
Location: Chattanooga, Tn
Posts: 17731

Trevor, I hope that Allen doesn't fire you for making a mistake.

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Old Post 11-11-2019 01:26 PM
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trevorwade09
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jun 2012
Location: Tennessee
Posts: 788

Richard, there is 3 inches of snow on the ground this morning and it's just getting started. Couldn't think of a harsher punishment for someone from our part of the country. HA

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Old Post 11-11-2019 01:33 PM
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Richard Lambert
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Aug 2004
Location: Chattanooga, Tn
Posts: 17731

If I was in charge, I would have a Southern Headquarters for the winter months.

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