Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 1542

If a hunter would ever need a "broke" coonhound to start with true pleasure hunters. Because I'm pretty sure they wouldn't get any enjoyment out of hunting a silent hound nor a babbler.

__________________
OLD TIMER

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Jul 2012
Location: Louisiana
Posts: 394

I have to agree with some of these comments but others are out in left field. For instance..the belief that a dog must bark at least 10 times before treeing. You never heard of a lay-up? And what if the dog just happened to run right up on the coon before smelling it and it climbed immediately? Yes, I know these are isolated instances and the standard should be over a period of time. I drew a babbler once that the guy swore just had a super good nose. I handled it by going back to the asphalt parking lot we parked in and turned out from. It is about 75 yards from one side to the other. I just told the cast that anything that opened before the other edge was scratched and gambled that no coon had been there. Guys, I've been beat nearly every way possible including my dog treeing 1 coon, a different dog treeing one that mine wasn't on and a 3rd dog treeing in 4 minutes behind them in each case and beating us both. I fact, that's happened twice. To be fair though; in one of those cases, the dog that treed the 2nd coon should have won. However, he couldn't hear her treed and didn't think she was there. Instead of gambling and pitching her for 4th tree; he took a 100- because she was there.

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Sep 2009
Location: Monticello, Wi
Posts: 744

quote:

---

Originally posted by Cory Highfill
Determining when a dog starts to smell a track in relation to when it opens its mouth is impossible and as such is speculation. Determining when there is no track present to smell is (should be) much easier.

---

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Aug 2012
Location:
Posts: 930

quote:

---

Originally posted by Kler Kry
If you hunt in the snow it will tell you more than you want to know at times, but makes things perfectly clear as well. The best track dogs that I'ved had would consistently strike feeder tracks when on the leash that were over 40 steps from where they opened to where I'd find the track in the snow. They'd show you the coon too. In a competition hunt these same dogs would get minus for babbling, because the judge thought a honest strike dog should open everytime their foot hit the ground instead of every 40 steps.
THE OVERALL ABILITY LEVEL OF THE COMPETITION HOUNDS IS DECREASING BECAUSE THEY CAN WIN FIRST PLACE BY BEING INDEPENDANT AND MEDIOCRE IN OVERALL ABILITY. The best honest strike dog is often forced to take second strike to avoid getting 100 minus. That is usually what I done as it is better to give away 25 than to overcome -100 strike in a one hour hunt.

---

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Sep 2009
Location: Monticello, Wi
Posts: 744

Would you pleasure hunt a dog that wouldn't even tree one coon in two hours? There are a lot of coons out there. If your dog isn't finishing at least 5 coon in two hours at this time of the year then I understand why your grandpa wont go hunting with you and you don't have an honest strike, track and tree dog. As ever, Ken Risley

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: May 2005
Location: Bellevue, IA
Posts: 1869

When pleasure hunting I very rarely strike a track within a minute, maybe 25% of the time. When I'm in a hunt its the complete opposite, about 75% of the time the dogs are barking within a minute.

"When Shep opens he's on a coon, he don't babble." That's my favorite line.

There are dog out there with above average noses but not nearly as many as you see at the hunts.

Last edited by T Felderman on 10-10-2018 at 02:36 PM

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Aug 2012
Location:
Posts: 930

That just about does it, don't it?

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Aug 2014
Location:
Posts: 780

quote:

---

Originally posted by Kler Kry
If you hunt in the snow it will tell you more than you want to know at times, but makes things perfectly clear as well. The best track dogs that I'ved had would consistently strike feeder tracks when on the leash that were over 40 steps from where they opened to where I'd find the track in the snow. They'd show you the coon too. In a competition hunt these same dogs would get minus for babbling, because the judge thought a honest strike dog should open everytime their foot hit the ground instead of every 40 steps.
THE OVERALL ABILITY LEVEL OF THE COMPETITION HOUNDS IS DECREASING BECAUSE THEY CAN WIN FIRST PLACE BY BEING INDEPENDANT AND MEDIOCRE IN OVERALL ABILITY. The best honest strike dog is often forced to take second strike to avoid getting 100 minus. That is usually what I done as it is better to give away 25 than to overcome -100 strike in a one hour hunt.

---

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Aug 2008
Location: SE Ohio, Glouster
Posts: 2244

Man I cannot help myself. This is a post of which i have held many discussions on. It is MY BELIEF, that the term "Honest Strike Dog" is a term used much like a political term.

You see, Honest Strike dog Implies that something dishonest is occurring when the outcome does not favor the person on the short end of the strike position. Rather than admit that there dog is a medium to poor strike dog, they must justify their getting beat by using this term that somebody was dishonest, thus cheating them out of the strike position they should have gotten.

EVERYTIME I see the term "Honest strike dog" used, I turn away from that advertisement of that hound because I'm sure, he is more of a 2nd or 3rd strike dog than he is a 1st strike dog.

Now I don't like a babbling dog either, but I do like the description of an earlier post, where the dog actually opened 40 yards or more from the actual track. You see, for me, That is an HONEST 1st strike dog. And not the hound that finds the track, and moves that track 50 to 200 yards before it opens. Just my opinion, and thank God I live in a country where I am still allowed to have an opinion. "at least for now" anyway.

__________________
Phone-740-767-2572
Dave Mayles
11210 Davis Road
Glouster, Ohio 45732
Home To:
Gr.Nt.Ch. Hooper Ridge Hang'em High Holly
Gr.Nt.Ch. Hooper Ridge Rockets Top Gun.
Gr.Nt.Ch.Hooper Ridge Rocket
Gr.Nt.Ch Hooper Ridge Dolly
Nt.Ch Hooper Ridge Queen
Nt.Ch Raw Dawg Rowdy
PR Tree Banging Buddy
HOOPER RIDGE ENGLISH-POUND FOR POUND THEY ARE ONE TOUGH HOUND!!!!

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Oct 2004
Location: Clarksville, AR
Posts: 1074

I think we're getting tied up in the antics of semantics. A dog as described above that's capable of winding a track from 40 yards away by some definitions is a real, honest, top end strike dog. By some definitions, the dog that covers a mile in three minutes and opens fast on a red hot popup is also considered a real, honest top end strike dog. The validity of each opinion is subject to individual interpretation.

But I think/hope we can all agree that the one that leaves barking, or trails other dogs, or bumps around here and there on junk isn't an "honest" strike dog by definition, because it is acquiring undeserved strike points for doing something it shouldn't.

What's more frustrating (at least to me) are hunters that are unable or unwilling to determine the difference...

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Apr 2015
Location: church hill tn
Posts: 5637

I agree with both of you regarding a dog that can smell/open on tracks some distance away [ winding ]. We are hunting a dog now [ by himself ] that often strikes a track 40/100 yards from his turn out and runs that track and trees that track with eyes looking down. Babbler? Heck no he isn't! Coon dog 100% in any man's book. Dave

__________________
Dave Richards Treeing Walkers Reg American Saddlebred and Registered Rocky Mt. Show Horses

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Aug 2014
Location:
Posts: 780

Cory, all three of your examples get the same points on the card.How many "first strike dog" guys would be willing to cast from the Wal-mart parking lot?

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Feb 2015
Location: Ohio
Posts: 572

quote:

---

Originally posted by Stan Ferrell
Cory, all three of your examples get the same points on the card.How many "first strike dog" guys would be willing to cast from the Wal-mart parking lot?

---

__________________
NITECH GRCH Gibsons Tree Leanin' Boogeyman HTX (ALH)

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Feb 2018
Location:
Posts: 160

Guys we see post on the Subject of strike everyday. I’m at a hunt somewhere every weekend year round. I’m 100% addicted to them. I’ve drew 3 silent dogs and probably a dozen what I would consider babblers out of HUNDREDS of cast. I truly believe that people use the term “Babbler” as an excuse when they get beat. If people would start looking at the real problem that’s on the end of there lead you’d see an extreme upgrade in dog power. If you are consistently getting beat because of strike points it’s because your dog just isn’t good enough. My dad told me something several years ago that makes a lot of sense. He said it’s easy to beat a babbler. All you have to do is tree more coons than everything else. If it can’t tree more coons than everything you cut it loose with it’s not worth feeding anyway. If your dog isn’t consistently winning 60% or more of the cast it’s in shoot it and find one that will. I’m 100% fed up with the excuses people make to try and cover there lack of dog power. It honestly just makes you look and sound ignorant to me. I promise if I get beat a few times in a row for the same reason. Whether it’s strike or getting covered or whatever the problem may be I will fix the problem. If I have to upgrade dogs that’s what I will do but I don’t show up to make excuses and donate I’m there to win every time I show up.

__________________
GRNITE CH PKC CH CHKC CROSSBREED WORLD CHAMPION 2018 UKC WORLD HUNT 5th place Finisher MAFIA’S FANG SLINGING DEMON
Be Phenomenal or Be Forgotten

Dalton Cummings
918-533-6545

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Feb 2018
Location:
Posts: 160

I’ll give you a good example. The Willy dog that won the world hunt was one of the tightest dogs I’ve ever drawn. Or at least he was in the late round Friday night to get into the final cast. He opened 1 time on the ground in 2 hours and it was a locate and he just changed his mind on staying treed. He beat dogs by treeing more coons than they did.

__________________
GRNITE CH PKC CH CHKC CROSSBREED WORLD CHAMPION 2018 UKC WORLD HUNT 5th place Finisher MAFIA’S FANG SLINGING DEMON
Be Phenomenal or Be Forgotten

Dalton Cummings
918-533-6545

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Apr 2014
Location: batsville ark
Posts: 1110

quote:

---

Originally posted by Stan Ferrell
The ability of dogs will evolve to the rules of which it is judged. You can not judge a coondog( hide dog) by the UKC rules. No how will a dog barking at another dogs tracks be helpful in filling a freezer with hides, yet it will win a dog money and acclaim in competition hunts.

---

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Dec 2006
Location: Springfield, Ga.
Posts: 4254

quote:

---

Originally posted by Richard Lambert
Is a dog that gets second or third tree a "me too" dog or one that is slower on track and gets beat to a tree. Or maybe they are just slower to tree because they like to check and make sure the coon is there. Why does everyone automatically assume that a second or third tree dog can't tree a coon by themselves? Everyone wants to "weed out" the slow second and third tree dogs. But they go out looking for those slow second or third tree dogs when they sneak off by themselves and don't open on track so that you don't know how slow they are. Is it because these are "cast winners"?

---

__________________
Robert " Rock" Johnson

Johnson Creek Kennels
home of:
UKC Grand Nite Champion "PR" Yadkin River Addkis. Deceased 12/11/2016 RIP

2009/2010/2011/2012 AKC GA. State Leader and Supreme Grand Nite Champion Yadkin River Addkis

2010 ACHA Georgia State Champion Grand Nite Champion Yadkin River Addkis

PKC Champion Yadkin River Addkis

Bright Eye Lights


Treeing Walkers

912-663-5287 cell (perfered)

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: May 2005
Location: oklahoma
Posts: 5035

HONEST STRIKE DOG IS ONE THAT ONLY BARKS WHEN HE SMELLS A COON, DONT MATTER WHEN

__________________
HOME OF 2010 HIGH SCOREING REDBONE FEMALE, DUAL CH Y2KD, #7 REPRODUCING RED FEMALE
NT.Ch. WINNER AT REDBONE SEC. 2008
3RD PL. NT.CH. 2009 BATTLE OF BREEDS AT ADA OKLA.
4TH PLACE R.Q.E 2010
2ND PLACE OVERALL AT ZONE 4 AND DOUBLE CAST WINNER 2010
WENT TO 2010 WORLD HUNT
AMERICAN REDBONE ASSOCIATION HIGH SCOREING REDBONE FEMALE OF THE 2010 WORLD HUNT
OVERALL HI SCOREING DOG AT 2010 BBCHA BLUE TIC SECTIONAL
GR.NT.CH. AT 12 and A HALF
MADE-EM SEE RED

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Aug 2014
Location:
Posts: 162

I have a two year old hound that would be considered a second tree dog because he always checks himself on a tree he don't get there late he just checks if the coon climbs the first tree then my dog is beat but if not he'll go on and have the coon more times than not sense july he's shown me 34 coons 4 circles 4 slicks and i'm ok with that jmo.

Last edited by 100%hunter on 10-12-2018 at 01:42 PM

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: May 2012
Location: Amerika land of the free?
Posts: 1237

quote:

---

Originally posted by Rocketman55
Man I cannot help myself. This is a post of which i have held many discussions on. It is MY BELIEF, that the term "Honest Strike Dog" is a term used much like a political term.

You see, Honest Strike dog Implies that something dishonest is occurring when the outcome does not favor the person on the short end of the strike position. Rather than admit that there dog is a medium to poor strike dog, they must justify their getting beat by using this term that somebody was dishonest, thus cheating them out of the strike position they should have gotten.

EVERYTIME I see the term "Honest strike dog" used, I turn away from that advertisement of that hound because I'm sure, he is more of a 2nd or 3rd strike dog than he is a 1st strike dog.

Now I don't like a babbling dog either, but I do like the description of an earlier post, where the dog actually opened 40 yards or more from the actual track. You see, for me, That is an HONEST 1st strike dog. And not the hound that finds the track, and moves that track 50 to 200 yards before it opens. Just my opinion, and thank God I live in a country where I am still allowed to have an opinion. "at least for now" anyway.

---

__________________
The more laws a nation has the more corrupt the nation.

When the law of the land becomes unjust outlaws will rise to take their place in history.

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Aug 2004
Location: northcarolina
Posts: 490

It's a good thing UKC don't scratch humans for babbling
There's a lot of forum posters would go "Poof"

__________________
NT CH "PR" Turkey Creek Playboy
Dual Grand Ridgeway's Deep Creek Zena
Dual Grand Laurel Fork Mongo
Grand Night Tight as a Cord

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: May 2012
Location: Amerika land of the free?
Posts: 1237

Dave now that is funny I dont's care who's you are. LOL

__________________
The more laws a nation has the more corrupt the nation.

When the law of the land becomes unjust outlaws will rise to take their place in history.

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Apr 2015
Location: church hill tn
Posts: 5637

Your definition is 100%correct, opens only when they smell a coon. Most hunters know their dog and what they are doing, it's the handler who is dishonest, when they strike a babbler. Dave

__________________
Dave Richards Treeing Walkers Reg American Saddlebred and Registered Rocky Mt. Show Horses

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Aug 2004
Location: Chattanooga, Tn
Posts: 22462

Mr Webb, that is funny. Dave, UKC rules say that you have to strike a dog after 3 barks once the minute is up. They don't actually have a choice. The rule forces them to be dishonest. I have seen/heard a lot of people say that we should do away with the 1 minute rule but maybe we should change it to a 5 min rule. That way handlers would not "have" to strike their dog when they knew that it was babbling. And maybe then judges would be more inclined to minus them if they did.

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Apr 2015
Location: church hill tn
Posts: 5637

You are right after the minute is up, one is forced to strike after the 3rd bark, my comment was more directed at those striking dog/s in the first minute. Hence the auto strike title for the babbler. Dave

__________________
Dave Richards Treeing Walkers Reg American Saddlebred and Registered Rocky Mt. Show Horses

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged