Registered: Aug 2004
Location: Chattanooga, Tn
Posts: 22461

It sounds to me like there was a problem with dogs babbling back then also. So the rule used to be 3 minutes on the first dump only? I am assuming handlers/ hunters were having a problem with that so they complained and got it changed to 1 minute on every drop. Did they think that would stop the dogs from babbling? Why didn't they change the rule to 3 minutes on every drop? With the way dogs are hunted these days, you are not going to slow them down with just one drop. They are just as wide open and excited after 2 hrs as they were at the beginning.

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Jul 2003
Location: East central Illinois.
Posts: 1700

I remember how it was before the "babbling allowed" rule. A dog that babbled wasn't worth anything to a competition hunter. Wide open, high strung dogs usually didn't last long in the world. People bred to winners, so dogs got pretty tight. My dog was a pretty tight mouth hound and so were most others. I didn't like the "babbling allowed" rule when it started and for several years after.
At least now you get to hear a dog work a track and I kinda like that. So it hasn't been all bad.

__________________
Darrin Gher
Elbridge Redbones
Home of
GRNTCH PR' Steve-O and Chili's Red Flow
NTCH PR' Twisters Musical Red Huey DNA-VIP Perf Sire 06'07 Deceased 11/07
Former Home of
NTCH 'PR' Swann's Lonesome Red Music/ Kitty
NTCH. CH PR' SawBlade Red Reckon
NTCH. CH PR' Gher's Timber Mt. Brandy
Breeder of
GRNTCH PR' Daugherty's Red BUBBA
NTCH CH PR' BA'S Tree Top Rockin Griddle
NTCH PR' Lickcreek Backwoods Lil Red Annie

Last edited by jdgher on 10-15-2018 at 04:47 PM

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Aug 2004
Location: Chattanooga, Tn
Posts: 22461

So the rule was changed because dogs were getting too "tight" and hunters didn't like that? I have found that if you breed to old frozen semen or linebreed on the older lines that you get tight mouthed pups. And now dogs are getting too "loose"? It is a shame that we can't reach a happy medium. It sure is awfully hard to get pups that are open trailing first strike dogs that don't babble. It can be done but it sure is hard. It is just like trying to breed for super quick tree dogs that are still accurate.

Last edited by Richard Lambert on 10-15-2018 at 05:13 PM

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: May 2015
Location: IN
Posts: 2760

quote:

---

Originally posted by T Felderman
If cant determine babble, any dog barking within 10 seconds left on the minute goes in for 50!

---

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Jul 2003
Location: Lockridge Iowa
Posts: 2843

You guys are getting closer for what needs to happen. I would like to see the babbling rule disappear and the minus points with it. All dogs struck on or before the 3rd bark. Any dog struck in the first 30seconds of being cut loose would receive 25points. Dogs struck after the 30 seconds would be eligible for available points 100,75,50.

__________________
Tree Jar'n Black and Tans
Home of Tree Jar'n Coonhound Kennels


319-201-8445

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Jul 2003
Location: East central Illinois.
Posts: 1700

how about this. No strike will be accepted within the first minute. When the minute is up, call your dogs on or before the 3rd bark. Most babbling dogs will have settled down by 1 minute.

__________________
Darrin Gher
Elbridge Redbones
Home of
GRNTCH PR' Steve-O and Chili's Red Flow
NTCH PR' Twisters Musical Red Huey DNA-VIP Perf Sire 06'07 Deceased 11/07
Former Home of
NTCH 'PR' Swann's Lonesome Red Music/ Kitty
NTCH. CH PR' SawBlade Red Reckon
NTCH. CH PR' Gher's Timber Mt. Brandy
Breeder of
GRNTCH PR' Daugherty's Red BUBBA
NTCH CH PR' BA'S Tree Top Rockin Griddle
NTCH PR' Lickcreek Backwoods Lil Red Annie

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Aug 2004
Location: Chattanooga, Tn
Posts: 22461

Mr Berger, that makes sense. Babblers would not get minused but would only get 25 on strike. And the dog that could keep his mouth shut for 30 seconds with another dog babbling could then get 100. And if 2 or even 3 dogs left out barking, they would all only get 25 strike points. That would take all of the arguing out of it. And that would also stop guides from turning loose right on top of a bucket or creek.

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Dec 2017
Location:
Posts: 340

This is my first time posting on here. I do more reading than saying. I know am asking for trouble getting on here , because a coonhunter doesn’t need enemies , we can manage that getting on here seems like. By the way I do like to competition hunt. Only get on here waiting on dark or when it’s to hot. The way I see it is strick points are a joke .When a dog sounds the same in the box going down the road as he does being struck off the leash an should I say going 2 miles deep before he trees. If we can’t agree that dog is babbling something is wrong. Before someone comes back with a smart comment that’s the way it is. A true hounds men knows when one is right.Do away with strick points an award the dog that trees the coon. 125 first tree an anything that comes in after a minute goes in for 25. Ok , let me have it, I know it’s coming

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: May 2012
Location: Amerika land of the free?
Posts: 1237

Just make all strikes 25 across the board that should solve the problem. Maybe but I highly doubt it.

__________________
The more laws a nation has the more corrupt the nation.

When the law of the land becomes unjust outlaws will rise to take their place in history.

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Jul 2003
Location: East central Illinois.
Posts: 1700

quote:

---

Originally posted by jdgher
how about this. No strike will be accepted within the first minute. When the minute is up, call your dogs on or before the 3rd bark. Most babbling dogs will have settled down by 1 minute.

---

__________________
Darrin Gher
Elbridge Redbones
Home of
GRNTCH PR' Steve-O and Chili's Red Flow
NTCH PR' Twisters Musical Red Huey DNA-VIP Perf Sire 06'07 Deceased 11/07
Former Home of
NTCH 'PR' Swann's Lonesome Red Music/ Kitty
NTCH. CH PR' SawBlade Red Reckon
NTCH. CH PR' Gher's Timber Mt. Brandy
Breeder of
GRNTCH PR' Daugherty's Red BUBBA
NTCH CH PR' BA'S Tree Top Rockin Griddle
NTCH PR' Lickcreek Backwoods Lil Red Annie

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Aug 2013
Location: Seneca, Mo
Posts: 5823

quote:

---

Originally posted by jdgher
how about this. No strike will be accepted within the first minute. When the minute is up, call your dogs on or before the 3rd bark. Most babbling dogs will have settled down by 1 minute.

---

__________________
Cheyenne & Jennifer Cummings
Seneca , MO
(417)317-4815
"TEAM MAFIA"
*NATIONAL GRNITECH GRCH GRNITECH(5) HALL OF FAME PKC PLATIUM CH REDNECK BACKWOODS SHACK
2014 OK STATE CH, 2015 MO PKC LEADER, 2016 PKC NATIONALS SEMIFINALIST, 2016 UKC TOP 20, 2O17 UKC WORLD CHAMPIONSHIP 3RD PLACE, 2018 PKC SENIOR SHOWDOWN TRUCK HUNT FINAL 4, 2018 MO PKC STATE CHAMPION, 2019 AUTUMN OAKS NATIONAL GRNITE CH, 2019 PKC WORLD CH SEMIFINALIST. 2021 PKC SENIOR SHOWDOWN TRUCK HUNT FINAL 4.
*PKC WORLD CHAMPION PLATNIUM CHAMPION GRNITECH SHACK'S HEATHER ISLAND SOUTHERN STOGIE
2021 OKLAHOMA STATE CHAMPION, 2022 PKC WORLD CHAMPION, 2022 MO PKC STATE LEADER PRO SPORT TRUCK WINNER

RIP
*GRNITECH PKC SCH REDNECK MAFIA PKC HALL OF FAME REPRODUCER INDUCTED 2022
*GRNITECH CH PKC SILVER CH REDNECK SHACK ATTACK aka TAC 2018 OKLAHOMA STATE CHAMPION, 2020 MO PKC STATE LEADER

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Aug 2008
Location: SE Ohio, Glouster
Posts: 2244

Sure some interesting comments thats for sure, some have some merit some are a little far fetched for me.

Back during the inception of this competition coon hunting coons were much more scarce thus tracks were further apart, making the value of a hounds striking ability go up, if that dog had the good sense, to not only know where to go looking for a track, but have enough nose to unravel this track, even if that coon had traveled through that area many hours prior to the hound coming through there.

Now that the coon population as increased significantly throughout (most ) of the US, and especially so here in the mid west, it doesn't require quite as much skill/talent to come across a coon track as it did back in the late 50's and early 60"s.

May I suggest something similar as has already been suggested but with a little different twist.

How bout this. any/all dogs opening and declared struck during the first 30 seconds of each drop to receive 35 strike points. Then any dog that opens from 31 seconds through 60 seconds, to receive 25 strike points.

My reasoning for this is that it doesn't take a special hunting ability to strike a track that is within 30 seconds of where you are turning loose. Secondly any dog that strikes within the next 30 seconds, could possibly be a little tight anyway as if there really was a track within that first 30 seconds, the dog should have opened anyway.

After one minute of full silence with no dogs barking, the strike should then be accepted as called, 100-75-50-25.

This would help to reduce points stolen from an automatic strike dog, yet still reward a dog that finds a track that it was not turned loose on top of.

I know this is not perfect, as it would still penalize that dog with good sense, inside that first minute. But think this one through and see what you think of this idea.

__________________
Phone-740-767-2572
Dave Mayles
11210 Davis Road
Glouster, Ohio 45732
Home To:
Gr.Nt.Ch. Hooper Ridge Hang'em High Holly
Gr.Nt.Ch. Hooper Ridge Rockets Top Gun.
Gr.Nt.Ch.Hooper Ridge Rocket
Gr.Nt.Ch Hooper Ridge Dolly
Nt.Ch Hooper Ridge Queen
Nt.Ch Raw Dawg Rowdy
PR Tree Banging Buddy
HOOPER RIDGE ENGLISH-POUND FOR POUND THEY ARE ONE TOUGH HOUND!!!!

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: May 2004
Location: Sullivan IL.
Posts: 3060

The rule in UKC gives me 1min to beat the babbler. If a dog leaves babling and the handler waits a minute can you still minus him ? YES

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: May 2012
Location: Amerika land of the free?
Posts: 1237

I think a lot of the babbling actually comes from competition hunting with strange dogs , and it is a learned behavior , I have 1 female that only babbles some with other dogs on the first turn out at a competition hunt every time , hunt her by herself or with her pack mates not a problem ever.

__________________
The more laws a nation has the more corrupt the nation.

When the law of the land becomes unjust outlaws will rise to take their place in history.

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Aug 2008
Location: SE Ohio, Glouster
Posts: 2244

I agree Mr. Allen. I too have a female that usually will not loose mouth, coming off the strap. But when put with a dog that gets all wired up prior to being unsnapped, it seems to amp her up a bit to, as I think one dog in a cast can amp up the whole group by this one dogs behavior.

Dogs are one of the best animals at reading body language, and one dogs body language can certainly affect the behavior of multiple dogs in that group.

__________________
Phone-740-767-2572
Dave Mayles
11210 Davis Road
Glouster, Ohio 45732
Home To:
Gr.Nt.Ch. Hooper Ridge Hang'em High Holly
Gr.Nt.Ch. Hooper Ridge Rockets Top Gun.
Gr.Nt.Ch.Hooper Ridge Rocket
Gr.Nt.Ch Hooper Ridge Dolly
Nt.Ch Hooper Ridge Queen
Nt.Ch Raw Dawg Rowdy
PR Tree Banging Buddy
HOOPER RIDGE ENGLISH-POUND FOR POUND THEY ARE ONE TOUGH HOUND!!!!

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: May 2017
Location: West Plains Mo
Posts: 471

If you want see if dog goin babble get them lined up to cut them then hold off for min make dogs stand there collared and ready to cut for lil while. It will get them excited enough that if there goin loose bark they will. I had female if I waited to very last second unsnap her she wouldnt loose bark. If stood holding her ready to cut her for lil while she bark few times when cut. Or I also so dogs that when dogs are cut loose the handler hold back for just sec to get him babbling. Lots tricks to get that strike if guy wants when bad enough. After all who wouldnt cheat for piece paper.

__________________
Ephesians 2:8 KJV
For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

Bayou Creek Black and Tan’s

Nathan Phenix
417-255-5697

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: May 2012
Location: Asheville, North Carolina
Posts: 629

Everybody talks about a tree countdown, how about something similar with strike points. The one minute rule was put in place so excited dogs could get the wire edge off and settle down and go hunting. Here's my idea for the babbling dog that the handlers use to get 100 strike points on everyone. If you strike your dog in the first minute you can only get 25 points that's for every dog on the cast that is struck in the first minute, that way nobody has an advantage over anybody. If you wait until after one minute to strike your dog, strike points go back as they are currently 100, 75, 50, 25. This should help the honest strike dog and stop the babblers from getting 100 strike points every drop. Judges have a hard time enforcing the babbling dog and this might help with that problem

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Aug 2004
Location: Chattanooga, Tn
Posts: 22461

Mr Allen, I like that proposal. Maybe they should have a trial of that in the Super Slams. They tried doing away with the one minute babbling rule and nobody liked it so they put it back in.

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Aug 2013
Location: Seneca, Mo
Posts: 5823

quote:

---

Originally posted by J I Allen
Everybody talks about a tree countdown, how about something similar with strike points. The one minute rule was put in place so excited dogs could get the wire edge off and settle down and go hunting. Here's my idea for the babbling dog that the handlers use to get 100 strike points on everyone. If you strike your dog in the first minute you can only get 25 points that's for every dog on the cast that is struck in the first minute, that way nobody has an advantage over anybody. If you wait until after one minute to strike your dog, strike points go back as they are currently 100, 75, 50, 25. This should help the honest strike dog and stop the babblers from getting 100 strike points every drop. Judges have a hard time enforcing the babbling dog and this might help with that problem

---

__________________
Cheyenne & Jennifer Cummings
Seneca , MO
(417)317-4815
"TEAM MAFIA"
*NATIONAL GRNITECH GRCH GRNITECH(5) HALL OF FAME PKC PLATIUM CH REDNECK BACKWOODS SHACK
2014 OK STATE CH, 2015 MO PKC LEADER, 2016 PKC NATIONALS SEMIFINALIST, 2016 UKC TOP 20, 2O17 UKC WORLD CHAMPIONSHIP 3RD PLACE, 2018 PKC SENIOR SHOWDOWN TRUCK HUNT FINAL 4, 2018 MO PKC STATE CHAMPION, 2019 AUTUMN OAKS NATIONAL GRNITE CH, 2019 PKC WORLD CH SEMIFINALIST. 2021 PKC SENIOR SHOWDOWN TRUCK HUNT FINAL 4.
*PKC WORLD CHAMPION PLATNIUM CHAMPION GRNITECH SHACK'S HEATHER ISLAND SOUTHERN STOGIE
2021 OKLAHOMA STATE CHAMPION, 2022 PKC WORLD CHAMPION, 2022 MO PKC STATE LEADER PRO SPORT TRUCK WINNER

RIP
*GRNITECH PKC SCH REDNECK MAFIA PKC HALL OF FAME REPRODUCER INDUCTED 2022
*GRNITECH CH PKC SILVER CH REDNECK SHACK ATTACK aka TAC 2018 OKLAHOMA STATE CHAMPION, 2020 MO PKC STATE LEADER

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Jan 2013
Location: Marietta
Posts: 10790

Jennifer let me ask you let them babble for 3 minutes the first drop then after that on or before the third bark to eliminate those who leave rattling off the snap every drop is that not fair ? We all know you can train a dog to keep his yapper shut off the snap we also know a lot of hunters like to have to have the option if they are behind a little to strike their dog on the babble. You get a babbler that never shuts up that trees coons to it can cause you to have a meltdown !!



Tar

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Dec 2005
Location: Indiana
Posts: 2620

IMO,
Every time a dog is recut and is found to be on his own separate tree he should go back in for 100 strike, not 25. IMO he indeed had the first strike on that track, even if ol "100 bark off the lead" is still running all over barking his brains out.

This way that quick strike machine is gona have to be putting some coons with it if he wants to beat ol "last strike honest Abe"

I'm sure this could be a rule the needs a little critiquing but something close would be nice

__________________
AFTER DARK KENNELS

JEREMY KIDD
765-520-1552


*females*
GRNITECH' JR'S JANEY
(Xjr X Insane Jane)

GRNITECH ST. JOHN'S STYLISH REX
(Ol south stylish Rebel X Janey)

GRNITECH' AFTER DARK'S JAN-IT
(Sweat It X Janey)

DUAL GRNITE' LONETREE LEGEND (R.I.P.)
(Noct. Style X Southern Sky)

GRNITECH' STYLISH LITTLE PEG(R.I.P.)
(Trackman X Browns Little Peg)

GRNITECH 'PR' JANEY'S GOTTA GUN
(Wild Card X Jr's Janey)

NITECH ‘PR’ REBELS STYLISH MOJA
(Ol Souths Stylish Rebel X Janey)

AFTER DARK’S PURDY PENNY
(Big $$ X Janit)

NITECH' SEVEN MILE SLOOPY(R.I.P.)
(Skipper x Big time Trixie)

Proud UNION JOURNEYMAN LINEMAN
https://i.postimg.cc/654pWfzm/IMG-1920.png
I.B.E.W. LOCAL 1393

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Aug 2004
Location: Chattanooga, Tn
Posts: 22461

Nobody trees a coon in a minute around my house.

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Aug 2014
Location:
Posts: 162

would it be fair to say if a dog strikes in the first 30 seconds that it's a fairly hot track?

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: May 2015
Location: IN
Posts: 2760

quote:

---

Originally posted by 100%hunter
would it be fair to say if a dog strikes in the first 30 seconds that it's a fairly hot track?

---

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Apr 2015
Location: church hill tn
Posts: 5628

I agree with jkidd, a dog treeing on a separate tree should have 100 strike POINTS . We all know it was a different coon, just like we treat trees separately, how hard would it be to treat those strikes separately. We now have a double standard with trees and strike points, how is this fair? Dave

__________________
Dave Richards Treeing Walkers Reg American Saddlebred and Registered Rocky Mt. Show Horses

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged