Registered: Sep 2007
Location: Glenmont,Ohio
Posts: 1162

Why do so many people complain about a no countdown in UKC? If a dog is backing for 75 and you are getting 125 it’s still hard to beat you unless you are hunt a low end strike dog or the “backer” is treeing a extra coon on you, most often he isn’t beating you. Please post your thoughts and opinions.

__________________
Get deep or Get Beat!

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Jan 2013
Location: Marietta
Posts: 10790

Because if you hunt honest strike dogs :


25 strike and 125 tree = 150

100 strike and 75 tree at 4 minutes is 175.


Strike them on the babble and lean on you all night that's why !!



Tar

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Sep 2007
Location: Glenmont,Ohio
Posts: 1162

quote:

---

Originally posted by yadkintar
Because if you hunt honest strike dogs :


25 strike and 125 tree = 150

100 strike and 75 tree at 4 minutes is 175.


Strike them on the babble and lean on you all night that's why !!



Tar

---

__________________
Get deep or Get Beat!

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Jan 2013
Location: Marietta
Posts: 10790

Call it what you want I refuse to hunt a rattle headed babbling idiot just because everybody else does !! A man that will strike on the babble will plus a spider eye or circle a slick it's like dealing off the bottom of the deck to me !!




Tar

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Sep 2007
Location: Glenmont,Ohio
Posts: 1162

Tar, I understand but the babbling dog is a whole other issue to me. It may be in some areas, but I have not seen a time when all the other dogs in the cast were all babbling. Some times you get one or even 2 but not “most” of them do that I see.

__________________
Get deep or Get Beat!

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Jan 2013
Location: Marietta
Posts: 10790

It only takes one babbling that is a good backpacker to make your night miserable. They got 5 minutes to back you. And it's absolutely hard to minuse them for babbling with the rules in place when you are cutting loose in the woods wait a minute usually they are 200 to 300 yards by then 1 second after the minute they strike them.



Tar

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Sep 2007
Location: Glenmont,Ohio
Posts: 1162

I understand your point. I still think the babbling rule and issue is more of a problem then the countdown. A slight change of both rules could help some I suppose.

__________________
Get deep or Get Beat!

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Aug 2004
Location: Chattanooga, Tn
Posts: 22462

Why do some people want to change the rules to fit their tight mouth semi silent track dog. If you have a 4th strike dog, then live with it. Don't change the rules so that he has an advantage.

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Jan 2013
Location: Marietta
Posts: 10790

I ain't got a tight mouth dog by no means. Those red dogs just won't shut up !! They are worse than an ole gripey woman yah , yah ,yah , yah , yah on and on lol.




Tarbaby

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Sep 2010
Location: New Paris, Indiana
Posts: 7076

To me, it isn't about winning or changing rules to fit my dog. It is solely about the fairness of awarding a dog 75 tree points for showing up at 4:55 after the coon was treed. In my world, that dog doesn't deserve any points but I can live with 25. But a chance at 75? No way.
The higher ups at UKC must feel the same way because they put the countdown in the SS rules.

__________________
UKC Nite Champion Stylish Harry's Trixie - 2017 World Hunt Qualified - Owners - Sizemore/Martin
PKC CH/UKC GrNtCh Stylish Kate - 9/12/08 to 9/23/2016 R.I.P - Owners Sizemore/Martin
AKC/UKC NtCh Sizemore's Timber Jam Jeff 5/2/2000 to 1/22/2012 R.I.P.
AKC/UKC GrNtCh Sizemore's Timber Jam Jessi 12/21/04 to 1/21/2011 R.I.P.

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Sep 2004
Location: Moncks Corner, South Carolina
Posts: 1814

I'd like to see it left at 75 and close the tree after 2 minutes. If a dog trees 2nd he treed 2nd, whether it be a slick, a possum, or a coon he is still 2nd to get treed, which should be better than 3rd or 4th getting treed.

__________________
Kenny's Allnite Black and Tans
Moncks Corner, SC
843-697-5889
ChNtCh Allnite Gypsy Girl

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: May 2007
Location:
Posts: 1009

quote:

---

Originally posted by Richard Lambert
Why do some people want to change the rules to fit their tight mouth semi silent track dog. If you have a 4th strike dog, then live with it. Don't change the rules so that he has an advantage.

---

__________________
Shane

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Aug 2013
Location: Seneca, Mo
Posts: 5823

quote:

---

Originally posted by Sonny Phipps
Why do so many people complain about a no countdown in UKC? If a dog is backing for 75 and you are getting 125 it’s still hard to beat you unless you are hunt a low end strike dog or the “backer” is treeing a extra coon on you, most often he isn’t beating you. Please post your thoughts and opinions.

---

__________________
Cheyenne & Jennifer Cummings
Seneca , MO
(417)317-4815
"TEAM MAFIA"
*NATIONAL GRNITECH GRCH GRNITECH(5) HALL OF FAME PKC PLATIUM CH REDNECK BACKWOODS SHACK
2014 OK STATE CH, 2015 MO PKC LEADER, 2016 PKC NATIONALS SEMIFINALIST, 2016 UKC TOP 20, 2O17 UKC WORLD CHAMPIONSHIP 3RD PLACE, 2018 PKC SENIOR SHOWDOWN TRUCK HUNT FINAL 4, 2018 MO PKC STATE CHAMPION, 2019 AUTUMN OAKS NATIONAL GRNITE CH, 2019 PKC WORLD CH SEMIFINALIST. 2021 PKC SENIOR SHOWDOWN TRUCK HUNT FINAL 4.
*PKC WORLD CHAMPION PLATNIUM CHAMPION GRNITECH SHACK'S HEATHER ISLAND SOUTHERN STOGIE
2021 OKLAHOMA STATE CHAMPION, 2022 PKC WORLD CHAMPION, 2022 MO PKC STATE LEADER PRO SPORT TRUCK WINNER

RIP
*GRNITECH PKC SCH REDNECK MAFIA PKC HALL OF FAME REPRODUCER INDUCTED 2022
*GRNITECH CH PKC SILVER CH REDNECK SHACK ATTACK aka TAC 2018 OKLAHOMA STATE CHAMPION, 2020 MO PKC STATE LEADER

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Aug 2012
Location:
Posts: 930

Don't forget bout them hot nosed ones that couldn't find a coon if the wind blew one up theirs. 😂 Slick Tree Sight Dogs.

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: May 2007
Location:
Posts: 1009

Most UKC rules were set up when hunters were plentiful and coons were scarce, now coons are plentiful and hunters are scarce. It is different times with new styles of hunters and dogs and the rules should reflect that..

__________________
Shane

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Aug 2014
Location:
Posts: 162

would it help to have the major hunts when the leaves are gone?

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Aug 2014
Location:
Posts: 162

Is it posable that us old guys bred/raised/and trained dogs to tree coons... and dogs now are bred/raised/trained to fit the rule book? just asking!!!

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Jul 2003
Location: PA
Posts: 2154

I remember when UKC had 100 for first strike and 100 for first tree. If you didn't get first strike, the pressure was on you to get first tree.

Then first tree was bumped up to 125 points. Since then you could get 3rd strike, 1st tree, and you still win ties based on most plus tree points. If you go any farther you might as well just eliminate strike points and have everyone hunt silent dogs.

Now, when dogs are splitting all the time, 3rd and 4th tree dogs are getting just as many tree points as 1st tree dogs. To me, that's a much bigger problem than running open trailing track dogs in a hunt. I think 1st tree dogs should get more tree points than 2nd, 3rd, and 4th tree dogs (split or not).

There is no such thing as a first tree dog split treeing, as at that point there is nothing to split from. However, sometimes they do have to hold under pressure from 2nd, 3rd, and even 4th tree dogs that split from them.

To me, if 1st tree is 125, the most that a split tree should be worth is 100. If you wanted a countdown, apply it uniformly to the whole cast. Maybe that deep and alone dog only gets 25 points. The dogs treeing coon behind it certainly should deserve more points. I can already see the issue with this: "People would start wanting dogs that can run and tree ahead of the other dogs, rather than those that run away from the dogs that lead the pack."

I realize that those that have legitimate first tree dogs may think what I've said is a good idea, as it would benefit them. The rest (the majority) will have objections.

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Aug 2013
Location: Seneca, Mo
Posts: 5823

My idea would still to keep UKC unique from other kennel clubs. UKC is taking an approach to give something to everyone and that is good business hence the reason for the new double headers, small $ hunts and rumored larger $ hunts. You can take $50 dollars of money put a little gas in the truck and pay an entry win a yellow slip or now a chance to win that entry back - good business to give both types of hunters the opportunity.
Countdown is a great idea and but should still be unique. The format for the Super Slams has been very popular with the hunters. First tree is worth 125 like always, unlike others where strike and tree are if equal value. Dogs may cover on trees up to 2 minutes with regular 75, 50 and 25. After 2 minutes any who tree get 25. This format rewards the dog that treed the coon, still allows for a pack mentality up to a point but doesn't allow the super slow track dog or the me-too dog to receive more tree points than deserved. It's easy to follow and doesn't require any extra stop watch work, judges are already watching for 5 min to expire. The rule has already been tested for 2 years with a huge amount of support from hunters and includes many who do not typically hunt for $s so it would work well across the board for all hunts.

__________________
Cheyenne & Jennifer Cummings
Seneca , MO
(417)317-4815
"TEAM MAFIA"
*NATIONAL GRNITECH GRCH GRNITECH(5) HALL OF FAME PKC PLATIUM CH REDNECK BACKWOODS SHACK
2014 OK STATE CH, 2015 MO PKC LEADER, 2016 PKC NATIONALS SEMIFINALIST, 2016 UKC TOP 20, 2O17 UKC WORLD CHAMPIONSHIP 3RD PLACE, 2018 PKC SENIOR SHOWDOWN TRUCK HUNT FINAL 4, 2018 MO PKC STATE CHAMPION, 2019 AUTUMN OAKS NATIONAL GRNITE CH, 2019 PKC WORLD CH SEMIFINALIST. 2021 PKC SENIOR SHOWDOWN TRUCK HUNT FINAL 4.
*PKC WORLD CHAMPION PLATNIUM CHAMPION GRNITECH SHACK'S HEATHER ISLAND SOUTHERN STOGIE
2021 OKLAHOMA STATE CHAMPION, 2022 PKC WORLD CHAMPION, 2022 MO PKC STATE LEADER PRO SPORT TRUCK WINNER

RIP
*GRNITECH PKC SCH REDNECK MAFIA PKC HALL OF FAME REPRODUCER INDUCTED 2022
*GRNITECH CH PKC SILVER CH REDNECK SHACK ATTACK aka TAC 2018 OKLAHOMA STATE CHAMPION, 2020 MO PKC STATE LEADER

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Jun 2004
Location:
Posts: 684

My Monster dog and another walker dog treed 4 coons off to themselves and got beat by a black dog that got part of everything but never treed his own coon down at Kirksville, MO one night

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Sep 2007
Location: Glenmont,Ohio
Posts: 1162

quote:

---

Originally posted by Ashley Pratt
My Monster dog and another walker dog treed 4 coons off to themselves and got beat by a black dog that got part of everything but never treed his own coon down at Kirksville, MO one night

---

__________________
Get deep or Get Beat!

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Aug 2013
Location: Seneca, Mo
Posts: 5823

quote:

---

Originally posted by Sonny Phipps
So this dog never treed his own coon? He only backed each of the other dogs? It sounds like he was part of 4 coons and each of the other 2 were under 2 coons each? I can’t see that this type of thing happens very often but I could be wrong.

---

__________________
Cheyenne & Jennifer Cummings
Seneca , MO
(417)317-4815
"TEAM MAFIA"
*NATIONAL GRNITECH GRCH GRNITECH(5) HALL OF FAME PKC PLATIUM CH REDNECK BACKWOODS SHACK
2014 OK STATE CH, 2015 MO PKC LEADER, 2016 PKC NATIONALS SEMIFINALIST, 2016 UKC TOP 20, 2O17 UKC WORLD CHAMPIONSHIP 3RD PLACE, 2018 PKC SENIOR SHOWDOWN TRUCK HUNT FINAL 4, 2018 MO PKC STATE CHAMPION, 2019 AUTUMN OAKS NATIONAL GRNITE CH, 2019 PKC WORLD CH SEMIFINALIST. 2021 PKC SENIOR SHOWDOWN TRUCK HUNT FINAL 4.
*PKC WORLD CHAMPION PLATNIUM CHAMPION GRNITECH SHACK'S HEATHER ISLAND SOUTHERN STOGIE
2021 OKLAHOMA STATE CHAMPION, 2022 PKC WORLD CHAMPION, 2022 MO PKC STATE LEADER PRO SPORT TRUCK WINNER

RIP
*GRNITECH PKC SCH REDNECK MAFIA PKC HALL OF FAME REPRODUCER INDUCTED 2022
*GRNITECH CH PKC SILVER CH REDNECK SHACK ATTACK aka TAC 2018 OKLAHOMA STATE CHAMPION, 2020 MO PKC STATE LEADER

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Aug 2004
Location: Chattanooga, Tn
Posts: 22462

Oh my goodness, 2 dogs only treed 2 coons each while the 3rd dog was fast enough to get under all 4 coons? It sounds to me like the first 2 dogs were either awfully slow or that 323rd dog was awfully fast. It sounds like the 3rd dog was a pretty nice hound.

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Jun 2004
Location:
Posts: 684

Both dogs mentioned went on to make Gr Nt and one also made Gold Ch and sired a PKC World Ch but yeah they were slow Richard.

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Jun 2004
Location:
Posts: 684

If you read my post I said both dogs treed 4 coons each not total so yes the dog covering had plenty of chance to me too.

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged