Registered: May 2017
Location: Manchester, TN
Posts: 309

This is a hypothetical situation. I had something similar happen recently and just wondering how we would score it, had it went differently.

3 dog cast. Dogs A, B, and C are struck in that order.

Dogs B and C get treed together in that order. Dog A is off to the left.

With 30 seconds left on tree Dog A comes into the tree, but is not call treed as handler says he "doesn't sound right".

Upon arrival at tree, Dogs B and C are together and dog A is split 10 or so yards away.

Both trees are slick. Obviously Dogs B and C receive minus strike and tree points.

My question is, how is dog A scored? Deleted strike? Should he be handled at the same time as other dogs or do you back away and start the stationary time until handler declares him treed?

Thanks in advance.

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Registered: Jan 2017
Location: Miami, Ok
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If the trees didn't touch as I'm assuming they probably didn't that dog SHOULD NOT be handled unless he is treed in. If he is declared treed then he can handle him. Otherwise it's no different than him being split 500 yards through the country and not treed. Obviously in this case the handler doesn't want to tree his dog on a slick and wont have to until the stationary rule is almost out but stationary cant be used until the tree is scored and dogs are recut (dogs should be recut right there according to the rules, "Dogs MUST be cut if loose dogs are opening) which is my biggest pet peeve with the rules.

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Registered: Aug 2004
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Start the stationary on A if you can see him while you shine B & C's tree. If his handler hasn't treed him when B & C's tree is scored you lead them off and recast them. But if I was B or C's handler I would shine my tree for 8 minutes.

Last edited by Richard Lambert on 03-20-2019 at 05:16 PM

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explain stationary time to me in this instance, I am new to the competition world......thanks

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"Upon arrival at tree, B and C are together and dog A is split 10 or so yards away"

Ok, I take that to mean dog A is treed but has not been declared treed when the judge arrives. If that is the case, rule 4(j) prevails. Dog A must be handled at his tree and would be minused his strike points (100) and minused next available (125 since he is split). 250-.

Now if dog A is judged not to be treeing, then the judge has to make a decision as to whether dog A is "at the tree", in which case he must handled or is he not at the tree?

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Last edited by JiM on 03-20-2019 at 05:36 PM

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Registered: Aug 2004
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Actually "stationary rule" is "obviously treed" rule in UKC. If judge thinks that a dog is "obviously treed" he can start a 5 minute countdown on him. Handler has to tree his dog before the 5 minutes runs down or he is scratched. If you are walking to another dog that has been declared treed or shining a tree and can't judge the dog with stationary applied, then you have to stop it. But if you are 10 yrds from the dog and looking at him, then you can still run the stationary.

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Registered: Jan 2017
Location: Miami, Ok
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quote:

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Originally posted by Richard Lambert
Actually "stationary rule" is "obviously treed" rule in UKC. If judge thinks that a dog is "obviously treed" he can start a 5 minute countdown on him. Handler has to tree his dog before the 5 minutes runs down or he is scratched. If you are walking to another dog that has been declared treed or shining a tree and can't judge the dog with stationary applied, then you have to stop it. But if you are 10 yrds from the dog and looking at him, then you can still run the stationary.

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quote:

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Originally posted by TylerOSU
Rule 6(O). If the cast is in the process of shining a separate tree time shall be canceled and not applied to another dog.

Sorry to tell ya Richard but I wouldn't want to shine it all night if I were those guys!

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Maybe I am missing something ? Original post says dog A was never declared treed.
First thing as a judge walking into a situation that dogs are this close and BEFORE any shining begins I ask if the cast wants to score these trees as one or two depending on how close and if touching once we start to shine .
This could get complicated depending on how smart Handler of dog A is and how it all goes down from here.
In this case lets say Handler dog A says he wants a separate tree but still does not want to tree his dog and cast agrees. This would be a smart move if Dog C and B tree is slick or has a coon.
Now dog A handler either can tree his dog split or not at this point . If he trees he can go handle his dog. If no he has his dog treeing while the cast is searching C and B tree. Indeed they do not touch . Dogs B and C tree is declared slick .
Now if Handler A does not tree and his dog comes over to B and C he will get circle strike and nothing on tree be cause officially he came into the tree after the cast arrived. Coon seen minus strike nothing on tree.
Handler A waits and his dog continues split treeing. Cast backs away from dog C and B tree .
Now two things could happen.
Handler of Dog A could quickly tree his dog .
Or he says nothing stationary is began and Dog A will still get his lumps if slick but dogs B and C will have to be recast.

Call it smart or slick handling.

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Last edited by Pat Bizich on 03-20-2019 at 07:56 PM

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Registered: Aug 2004
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quote:

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Originally posted by TylerOSU
Rule 6(O). If the cast is in the process of shining a separate tree time shall be canceled and not applied to another dog. !

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Time is cancelled because you can't score the dog, but in this case you can because you are standing there beside him. And since this is a hypothetical situation, you can do anything you want to hypothetically.

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Registered: Jan 2017
Location: Miami, Ok
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quote:

---

Originally posted by Richard Lambert
Time is cancelled because you can't score the dog, but in this case you can because you are standing there beside him. And since this is a hypothetical situation, you can do anything you want to hypothetically.

---

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Registered: Aug 2004
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Oh my goodness....

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Registered: Feb 2010
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How did you know dog A's tree was also slick? Dog split not called tree can't shine tree.

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Morrison TN
Posts: 4927

quote:

---

Originally posted by Pat Bizich
Maybe I am missing something ? Original post says dog A was never declared treed.
First thing as a judge walking into a situation that dogs are this close and BEFORE any shining begins I ask if the cast wants to score these trees as one or two depending on how close and if touching once we start to shine .
This could get complicated depending on how smart Handler of dog A is and how it all goes down from here.
In this case lets say Handler dog A says he wants a separate tree but still does not want to tree his dog and cast agrees. This would be a smart move if Dog C and B tree is slick or has a coon.
Now dog A handler either can tree his dog split or not at this point . If he trees he can go handle his dog. If no he has his dog treeing while the cast is searching C and B tree. Indeed they do not touch . Dogs B and C tree is declared slick .
Now if Handler A does not tree and his dog comes over to B and C he will get circle strike and nothing on tree be cause officially he came into the tree after the cast arrived. Coon seen minus strike nothing on tree.
Handler A waits and his dog continues split treeing. Cast backs away from dog C and B tree .
Now two things could happen.
Handler of Dog A could quickly tree his dog .
Or he says nothing stationary is began and Dog A will still get his lumps if slick but dogs B and C will have to be recast.

Call it smart or slick handling.

---

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Registered: Dec 2003
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If they know the other tree is slick he can try to get the other ones scratched for shining his tree but he is not treed in so who knows its a good chance somebody is coming back with a question if they put the stationary on him and they already shined his tree.

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You can look up in any tree in the woods as long as a dog is not declared treed on it.

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Registered: Feb 2018
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quote:

---

Originally posted by JiM
"Upon arrival at tree, B and C are together and dog A is split 10 or so yards away"

Ok, I take that to mean dog A is treed but has not been declared treed when the judge arrives. If that is the case, rule 4(j) prevails. Dog A must be handled at his tree and would be minused his strike points (100) and minused next available (125 since he is split). 250-.

Now if dog A is judged not to be treeing, then the judge has to make a decision as to whether dog A is "at the tree", in which case he must handled or is he not at the tree?

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Registered: May 2017
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quote:

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Originally posted by Bob Hennessey
How did you know dog A's tree was also slick? Dog split not called tree can't shine tree.

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