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Robert Johnson
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Dec 2006
Location: Springfield, Ga.
Posts: 4254

AUTUMN OAKS and Scorecards

This is an open statement to all of you who somehow think that UKC has just changed the rules for AUTUMN OAKS because they wanted to. The Oaks final four policy is well documented, and it plainly states that plus points would not be needed to determine a winner.

Had any of you had been at the draw out of the Grand Sixteen, you would know what the policy was, as it was clearly stated to each competitor that was there, just before the calling of the casts. NOT ONE OF THOSE MEN IN THAT RING OF SIXTEEN HAD A QUESTION. Pretty cut and dry to them what would take place, if and when the situation came up as it did. Are those folks on here complaining? NO!!! It is a shame that grown folks such as yourselves act so much like grade school kids. I haven't seen a scorecard, nor do i need to. Procedure was followed, a winner was named, and congratulations to him and everyone of the final four and grand sixteen. From my stand point, i see the ones involved acting like the fine people they are, knowing only one can win, and the rest SHOULD be proud of their accomplishment, as they are. Unfortunately; there are those who get on here and try to do no more than cause trouble from some point, or stir what they can, to take away from a moment that the winner should be proud of and supported. UKC put on a quality event again, and no one would ever expect any less of them. They did in every form follow the policies in effect for Autumn Oaks. As for anyone else thinking the rules are stead fast in Other KC's, they are, until the money people are in question, then you was just wrong in your interputation of what was the right thing in the rule, regradless of ow it reads in the book.

Keep up the good work UKC, and to all in the four, congratulations. You are bigger men than any of the internet forumn cowboys will ever be.

The above statement is my opinion and mine only. It is not to be mis-interputated as the opinion of UKC, it's staff, or the registry in general. It is to be interputated as the offical opinion of yours truley. I stand firm on it.

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john Duemmer
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Registered: Mar 2008
Location: Western N.Y.
Posts: 4005

You can toss around all the name calling and accusations you wish, but anyone with a modicum of intelligence and a third grade reading comprehension skill can clearly read on page 86 of the rulebook under the section pertaining to ROUND THREE that if the cast has no plus points that NO National Grand title will be awarded.

In a recent conversation with Allen about another matter he told me that the folks at UKC. are bound by the rules as written just the same as we hunters are.

I would also add that their is a difference between determining a winner and crowning a dog as National GRNT. champion.

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kayapellijed390
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Registered: Sep 2007
Location: South Dakota
Posts: 1442

Amen!!!

A big thank you to all the wonderful people who made this event possible. This was my wife and I's first year attending Autumn Oaks and we could not have been happier or more impressed with the way things where run. UKC puts on a first rate event that runs as smooth as a Swiss watch. We had only been there a few hours and we where already talking about next year. We hope to make it out there every year. A big congratulations to the winner, I know how hard the hunting was and how special the dogs that made the Grand Sixteen must truly be. Autumn Oaks - A first rate event, run by a first rate kennel club, with dogs and handlers of the highest quality!

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Wyatt Welch
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quote:
Originally posted by john Duemmer
You can toss around all the name calling and accusations you wish, but anyone with a modicum of intelligence and a third grade reading comprehension skill can clearly read on page 86 of the rulebook under the section pertaining to ROUND THREE that if the cast has no plus points that NO National Grand title will be awarded.

In a recent conversation with Allen about another matter he told me that the folks at UKC. are bound by the rules as written just the same as we hunters are.

I would also add that their is a difference between determining a winner and crowning a dog as National GRNT. champion.



If you would read over on the other bull$hit page there was plus points..... I am so sick of these "so called" grown adults acting like 2 yr olds fighting over the last cookie.
I think it is all because an ol' no name country boy from WV took his ol' never heard of before coon-dog down to hunt AO, and let a "young man" handle his dog and they won. Can you not give credit where credit is due? By the way that "no plus points" came from hear say if ya go back and re-read it.... He said "I heard it was a dead cast"..... They wouldn't have crowned him if he didn't win it"

How can we teach our youth about the sports if the adults act like children?

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amazeagle
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The crown of AO should go the guide who put them in the most coon the cast before the final then. No one is coming foward with the actual scores for a reason.

The only bull$hit is the sudden change in policy and rules it sounds like.Determine a winner from the final cast scorecard and crown a champion. You would think a UKC official would come forward and clear this all up one way or another regardless of how they wish to handle it.

I have also read on the bull$hit page that there was no plus from a person at the table when the card was handed in,which is it.

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Old Post 09-04-2012 06:44 PM
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Robert Johnson
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Registered: Dec 2006
Location: Springfield, Ga.
Posts: 4254

quote:
Originally posted by amazeagle
The crown of AO should go the guide who put them in the most coon the cast before the final then. No one is coming foward with the actual scores for a reason.

The only bull$hit is the sudden change in policy and rules it sounds like.Determine a winner from the final cast scorecard and crown a champion. You would think a UKC official would come forward and clear this all up one way or another regardless of how they wish to handle it.

I have also read on the bull$hit page that there was no plus from a person at the table when the card was handed in,which is it.



The more you talk, the less folks think of you. You continue to make accusations with no proof of them, combined by that small fact that you was not there. Continue on my friend. Its your reputation you're hurting, not mine, UKC's or anyone else's. As stated earlier, the policy in effect for AUTUMN OAKS was told to each competitor and indivdual who was in attendance for the event they paid to enter. Did you pay a dime? I doubt it. If you did, thank you, we'll spend it, not return it. We deserve to, we being UKC, just to keep from kicking you off the board, which is something your beloved KC would have already done by now, and you know it to be the truth. The gestpo runs that board. here its a democracy, and you may continue to down grade yourself at will friend. Have at it. I am shamed for you.

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Old Post 09-04-2012 06:59 PM
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walkerman42
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If I go 2 a local club hunt and no plus points brought back in who wins

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R_Wilson
UKC Forum Member

Registered: May 2010
Location: Lexington,Tennessee
Posts: 532

quote:
Originally posted by Wyatt Welch
If you would read over on the other bull$hit page there was plus points..... I am so sick of these "so called" grown adults acting like 2 yr olds fighting over the last cookie.
I think it is all because an ol' no name country boy from WV took his ol' never heard of before coon-dog down to hunt AO, and let a "young man" handle his dog and they won. Can you not give credit where credit is due? By the way that "no plus points" came from hear say if ya go back and re-read it.... He said "I heard it was a dead cast"..... They wouldn't have crowned him if he didn't win it"

How can we teach our youth about the sports if the adults act like children?



there was plus points?? a day after the questions were brought up?? YEAH RIGHT!!

NO ONE should have won that was in the FINAL 4. Holding your dog for 21 min waiting on a dog to bark?? Treeing a net wire fence right before that??

boy I tell ya these die hard UKC fellas are a different breed!

NO ONE WON!! NO PLUS!! READ YOUR RULE BOOK...PAGE 86!!

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Old Post 09-04-2012 07:18 PM
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R_Wilson
UKC Forum Member

Registered: May 2010
Location: Lexington,Tennessee
Posts: 532

quote:
Originally posted by Robert Johnson
The more you talk, the less folks think of you. You continue to make accusations with no proof of them, combined by that small fact that you was not there. Continue on my friend. Its your reputation you're hurting, not mine, UKC's or anyone else's. As stated earlier, the policy in effect for AUTUMN OAKS was told to each competitor and indivdual who was in attendance for the event they paid to enter. Did you pay a dime? I doubt it. If you did, thank you, we'll spend it, not return it. We deserve to, we being UKC, just to keep from kicking you off the board, which is something your beloved KC would have already done by now, and you know it to be the truth. The gestpo runs that board. here its a democracy, and you may continue to down grade yourself at will friend. Have at it. I am shamed for you.


Why deo you feel like you need to make excuses for UKC??

It is ok by you for them to say yeah the rule book says they gotta have plus, but watch this??

Never knew you was part of UKC...Learn something every day I guess...what dept you in?

you are just like the other UKC faithful, DEFENSIVE when they are CLEARLY in the wrong. Have at it buddy, YOU are the one that seems to be sticking your foot in your mouth so to speak, because in 3 days there has been just as many stories leaked about the final cast..that makes sense though, just like obama, the DEMOCRATS LEAK EVERYTHING!!!!

THE TRUTH SHALL SET YOU FREE!!

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Old Post 09-04-2012 07:24 PM
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john Duemmer
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Mar 2008
Location: Western N.Y.
Posts: 4005

Re: AUTUMN OAKS and Scorecards

quote:
Originally posted by Robert Johnson
This is an open statement to all of you who somehow think that UKC has just changed the rules for AUTUMN OAKS because they wanted to. The Oaks final four policy is well documented, and it plainly states that plus points would not be needed to determine a winner.

Had any of you had been at the draw out of the Grand Sixteen, you would know what the policy was, as it was clearly stated to each competitor that was there, just before the calling of the casts. NOT ONE OF THOSE MEN IN THAT RING OF SIXTEEN HAD A QUESTION. Pretty cut and dry to them what would take place, if and when the situation came up as it did. Are those folks on here complaining? NO!!! It is a shame that grown folks such as yourselves act so much like grade school kids. I haven't seen a scorecard, nor do i need to. Procedure was followed, a winner was named, and congratulations to him and everyone of the final four and grand sixteen. From my stand point, i see the ones involved acting like the fine people they are, knowing only one can win, and the rest SHOULD be proud of their accomplishment, as they are. Unfortunately; there are those who get on here and try to do no more than cause trouble from some point, or stir what they can, to take away from a moment that the winner should be proud of and supported. UKC put on a quality event again, and no one would ever expect any less of them. They did in every form follow the policies in effect for Autumn Oaks. As for anyone else thinking the rules are stead fast in Other KC's, they are, until the money people are in question, then you was just wrong in your interputation of what was the right thing in the rule, regradless of ow it reads in the book.

Keep up the good work UKC, and to all in the four, congratulations. You are bigger men than any of the internet forumn cowboys will ever be.

The above statement is my opinion and mine only. It is not to be mis-interputated as the opinion of UKC, it's staff, or the registry in general. It is to be interputated as the offical opinion of yours truley. I stand firm on it.



Well Mr. Johnson since you were in attendance why not clear this up for all of us that were not in attendance for that final round and tell us what the score was and how UKC. decided to pick the winner?

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Old Post 09-04-2012 07:27 PM
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amazeagle
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Registered: Sep 2006
Location: Blanchester,Ohio
Posts: 266

quote:
Originally posted by Robert Johnson
The more you talk, the less folks think of you. You continue to make accusations with no proof of them, combined by that small fact that you was not there. Continue on my friend. Its your reputation you're hurting, not mine, UKC's or anyone else's. As stated earlier, the policy in effect for AUTUMN OAKS was told to each competitor and indivdual who was in attendance for the event they paid to enter. Did you pay a dime? I doubt it. If you did, thank you, we'll spend it, not return it. We deserve to, we being UKC, just to keep from kicking you off the board, which is something your beloved KC would have already done by now, and you know it to be the truth. The gestpo runs that board. here its a democracy, and you may continue to down grade yourself at will friend. Have at it. I am shamed for you.


Exactly what accusations am I making. Isn't a written contract binding? I consider a written document a binding contract and your agreeing to that contract when you pay an entry fee. I bet if $30,000 was at stake there would already be lawyers be invovled. I'm sure UKC is meeting with it's legal team before making a statement here, I would be if I was in the hot seat. As far as my reputation that is my buisness. Being every man woman and child that registers a dog or pays an entry pays thier wages , I think they deserve to know the cold hard facts one way or another. Sounds like you have something to hide or one of these that sticks thier head in the sand and hopes this goes away and forgotten about. Point out the accusations I have made. I'm not the one that posted on here it was a dead cast or the one that later stated it was won with 225 plus. I see no cast members volenteering any imformation most likely they were asked not to elaborate on the subject unti legal issues were first addressed. But that is pure speculation also. Remember the public pays UKC's bills and have a right to know good or bad or at least remove all doubt. If that ruins my reputation, so be it,I never had the need to impress anyone other than myself. I feel right with God and he's the only one I need to impress.

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Robert Johnson
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Registered: Dec 2006
Location: Springfield, Ga.
Posts: 4254

if i were you i would not bet my life on most of what you are saying. Written contract huh. now we are talking. I bet you would be dead if you were to bet your life. See, your problem here is you have no idea what you are talking about. sometimes it is better to just be quiet my friend. You'll be a bigger person for it..

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amazeagle
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Sorry , maybe I should have said agreement instead of contract.

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Robert Johnson
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Dec 2006
Location: Springfield, Ga.
Posts: 4254

quote:
Originally posted by R_Wilson
WRITTEN CONTRACT = PAGE 86 of the UKC RULEBOOK MORON...


Mr. Wilson, you have no cause to be calling names. See, there is a written policy that was in effect. and it was foloowed by the MOH and the UKC. As for your name calling, you are forgiven, just this once, but the hair is beginning to rise on my back.

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amazeagle
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quote:
Originally posted by Robert Johnson
if i were you i would not bet my life on most of what you are saying. Written contract huh. now we are talking. I bet you would be dead if you were to bet your life. See, your problem here is you have no idea what you are talking about. sometimes it is better to just be quiet my friend. You'll be a bigger person for it..


No one on here knows what they are talking about because no one on here have heard the facts and that is a fact. No one that actually has the facts has willing come forward and cleared it up and that is a fact. It's not against the law to form an opinion,whether right or wrong is a fact.Your more worried about my reputation than I am is a fact. I would not bet on my life everything was on the up and up being it's kept so hush hush. We the public pay their wages we have every right to know the facts, If wanting to know the truth is a bad thing ,then I'm a bad bad man. Don't look to me that people that were there know any more than the rest of us.

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amazeagle
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WE= any man woman or child that has ever registered a dog with UKC or payed an entry into anUKC event, sorry that statement was so confusing.


The only assumtion I have made on this subject is that it was a dead cast, if it was not then I am wrong to assume it was. And the fact you seem to have trouble figuring out what the actual issue is here.

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countryboys
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First off, congrats to the winners. Secondly, with all of this going on now for days, I started not to write and put my two cents in, but this is getting ridiculous. Does anyone know 100% that the final cast had no plus points. If you don't know for sure, all you are doing is gossip. Unless you were on the final cast you dont know. I really hope there was plus points on the cast. If not UKC will say why they did what they did. Until then keep the childish crap to ya'lls self.

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ONEDOGNIGHT
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quote:
Originally posted by countryboys
First off, congrats to the winners. Secondly, with all of this going on now for days, I started not to write and put my two cents in, but this is getting ridiculous. Does anyone know 100% that the final cast had no plus points. If you don't know for sure, all you are doing is gossip. Unless you were on the final cast you dont know. I really hope there was plus points on the cast. If not UKC will say why they did what they did. Until then keep the childish crap to ya'lls self.

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amazeagle
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quote:
Originally posted by countryboys
First off, congrats to the winners. Secondly, with all of this going on now for days, I started not to write and put my two cents in, but this is getting ridiculous. Does anyone know 100% that the final cast had no plus points. If you don't know for sure, all you are doing is gossip. Unless you were on the final cast you dont know. I really hope there was plus points on the cast. If not UKC will say why they did what they did. Until then keep the childish crap to ya'lls self.



We do now and UKC honored thier contract/agreement and went by the book,Kudos!!!!

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Allen / UKC
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To clarify - the final cast in the Grand 16 did not score any plus points. Two dogs had ended up with an unbreakble tie each with 75 minus. That's why we had to revert back to the previous round score to name a winner.

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Old Post 09-04-2012 08:51 PM
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amazeagle
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Registered: Sep 2006
Location: Blanchester,Ohio
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quote:
Originally posted by Robert Johnson
if i were you i would not bet my life on most of what you are saying. Written contract huh. now we are talking. I bet you would be dead if you were to bet your life. See, your problem here is you have no idea what you are talking about. sometimes it is better to just be quiet my friend. You'll be a bigger person for it..


I was going to leave this rest but just couldn't help myself. I don't know what??????????? I know just a little more than you do buckwheat. A contract is a contract. last I'll comment on the AO subject. UKC done the right thing, they gained my respect today. I may even start hunting some UKC hunts again ,don't that just make your day.

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Old Post 09-04-2012 09:19 PM
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Nelson Kirkland
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jan 2004
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 232

quote:
Originally posted by Allen / UKC
To clarify - the final cast in the Grand 16 did not score any plus points. Two dogs had ended up with an unbreakble tie each with 75 minus. That's why we had to revert back to the previous round score to name a winner.


I will bet we have seen that last of this rule. Or at least I would hope.

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Old Post 09-04-2012 10:03 PM
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smokin-1-mo
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Sep 2003
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Posts: 3791

Robert,Robert Robert did you put in for that Ukc job that is posted...you do know you will have to move...I bet you are excited...

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Old Post 09-04-2012 10:09 PM
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dan w
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jun 2008
Location: Virginia
Posts: 1417

Allen

allen i sure wish someone would post a play by play of the final four so this thing could be put to rest where it belongs. the four handlers are sure taking it well, so it seems. sweat i guess is the winner and i am glad for him, how about number 2-3 and 4 do they have names ??????, and how did they place. Thanks

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Old Post 09-05-2012 12:44 AM
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