Registered: Feb 2012
Location: airville,pa
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quote:

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Originally posted by novicane65
So how many dogs do you normally scratch a year for fighting?

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Registered: Jan 2013
Location: Marietta
Posts: 10790

So a mean dog is like Bigfoot , lockness monster , or a yeti nobody has ever seen one but just like to keep talking about it ?


Tar

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Registered: Dec 2013
Location: Nichols Ny
Posts: 1565

quote:

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Originally posted by yadkintar
So a mean dog is like Bigfoot , lockness monster , or a yeti nobody has ever seen one but just like to keep talking about it ?


Tar

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Now that I've been enlightened I wonder why we ever had any mention in the rules of dogs fighting or attempting to fight. And if such a stupid rule was there, why did anybody propose changing it. Wouldn't it make as much sense to have a rule stating if a dog drives off in the judges truck he's scratched?

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Donald Bergeron

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quote:

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Originally posted by pamjohnson
I don't feel this would be the correct way to score this situation. Nobody saw the aggressor. Farther more 1 dog is leashed which States now scratch.

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Last edited by Team Mafia 2 on 12-03-2019 at 04:19 AM

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Here is the new rule.
6(b) For fighting or attempting to fight*, when off-leash
during the hunt, including any time-out periods.
When the aggressive dog is known, scratch the
aggressor only. If not known, scratch dogs involved.
Withdrawing to avoid dog being reported for
fighting is not permitted.
*16. DEFINITIONS
Attempting to Fight: 1) Showing aggressive behavior and
2) interfering with another dog(s) during the authority of
the Judge. (This rule definition is has not changed in any way.)

I know some of you protesters are the same ones that did not want any changes made to help prevent babbling, did not want the rule changes to allow for silent dogs to not be scratched and wanted questions to be placed on the card after the situation took place and did not believe that off game should be seen to scratch even though we have to see coons to plus. If memory serves me right a couple of you had an on board disagreement over something about tied out dogs getting in a dog fight. Well now neither is scratched but you as individuals could still be wrote up for misconduct if it came to that.

*Also, for the record the scratch questions Dalton referenced in his above post did not pertain to anything to do with fighting or aggression, it was someone not knowing the rules or just trying hail Mary passes as the only way to win (it didn't work). I personally had never seen the likes of grasping at straws questions like I witnessed in setting at Oaks and the WC as I saw this year. It was insanity some of the questions that came in.
Competition coonhunting should not be about 75 ways to scratch an opponent, coondog up! I for one am glad that several scratching offenses are gone and several other rule changes benefit the dog treeing coons and eliminated petty rules that were more harmful to the new comers.
Many of you need to go with Cheyenne's philosophy that some you win, some you lose but there will be another every night but Sunday. Go into it with a good attitude instead of a win at all costs or that I'm going to get cheated chip on your shoulder, the outcome may just surprise you.

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Registered: Jul 2006
Location: Deputy, Indiana
Posts: 422

I dont know what mean or rough means to some people, but I have seen 5 dogs scratched in casts for fighting just this year. I believe 4 more should have been. This is in the limited hunts Ive been too. If you have never been on a cast with dogs fighting you are very lucky or willfully ignorant. Fighting dogs have ruined young hounds. I believe the owner should be punished as well as hound.

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Registered: Nov 2004
Location: tennessee
Posts: 856

quote:

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Originally posted by Lance Laymon
I dont know what mean or rough means to some people, but I have seen 5 dogs scratched in casts for fighting just this year. I believe 4 more should have been. This is in the limited hunts Ive been too. If you have never been on a cast with dogs fighting you are very lucky or willfully ignorant. Fighting dogs have ruined young hounds. I believe the owner should be punished as well as hound.

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Registered: Dec 2013
Location: Nichols Ny
Posts: 1565

quote:

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Originally posted by Lance Laymon
I dont know what mean or rough means to some people, but I have seen 5 dogs scratched in casts for fighting just this year. I believe 4 more should have been. This is in the limited hunts Ive been too. If you have never been on a cast with dogs fighting you are very lucky or willfully ignorant. Fighting dogs have ruined young hounds. I believe the owner should be punished as well as hound.

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Registered: Jul 2006
Location: Deputy, Indiana
Posts: 422

Most casts I go too I dont see any dog fights, but some are posting dog fights dont happen. I wanted to post my personal experience from hunts in 2019. I did hunt in an unusually high number of casts for me this year.

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Registered: Jul 2006
Location: Deputy, Indiana
Posts: 422

quote:

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Originally posted by novicane65
IMHO, if you or anyone is worried that their young dog is going to get "ruined" by another man's dog, "DO NOT TAKE IT TO A HUNT!!!!!" I think what you're classifying as mean is not what most would call mean. Now out of 9 hunts with "mean" dogs how many did you go to without "mean" dogs? I'm not saying your dog is mean but you might want to check what you're leading if you're consistently seeing mean dogs,. Just saying

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Last edited by Lance Laymon on 12-03-2019 at 07:08 PM

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Location: tennessee
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quote:

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Originally posted by Lance Laymon
If You have a nice young dog and dont care if it gets chewed on in a cast you definitely look at coonhunting differently than me. I didnt classify any dog as mean I said they were scratched for fighting, but if you dont call that mean what do you call it? Also please refrain from judging my dogs until you have hunted with them. You wont see me making excuses for dog fights in a coonhunt.

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quote:

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Originally posted by johnny reb
I don’t think there’s anyone that goes out wanting there young dog to get chewed on. I think what novacaine65 was getting at is once there off lead there nothing you can do and anything can happen. Whether that’s getting on a road and getting hit or getting chewed on and if that one instance is going to ruin the dog don’t take it to a hunt. Just hunt it with dogs you know until the dog is mature enough to handle the situation if you happen to get with a rough dog.

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quote:

---

Originally posted by Lance Laymon
If You have a nice young dog and dont care if it gets chewed on in a cast you definitely look at coonhunting differently than me. I didnt classify any dog as mean I said they were scratched for fighting, but if you dont call that mean what do you call it? Also please refrain from judging my dogs until you have hunted with them. You wont see me making excuses for dog fights in a coonhunt.

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And
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Registered: Jul 2006
Location: Deputy, Indiana
Posts: 422

I would agree with you for the world hunt or autumn oaks , but around here for the small local hunts if it werent for young dogs we wouldnt draw enough dogs for a cast

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Registered: Jul 2006
Location: Deputy, Indiana
Posts: 422

I would agree with you for the world hunt or autumn oaks , but around here for the small local hunts if it werent for young dogs we wouldnt draw enough dogs for a cast

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Location: northeast
Posts: 1278

Absolutely last post on subject.
We live in an imperfect world ,with imperfect owners , with imperfect dogs, and imperfect rules.
Just to clear the air, I am not posting to stir controversy or to hurt sensitive peoples feelings that think this new rule is the greatest thing since white bread.
Nor am I trying to perpetuate the controversy. Just contributing to the discussion.
Obviously there are those of us that disagree for our own reasons.
This incident happened on a 4 dog cast. Does not matter where or who owned the dogs. But it is not fictional and I can supply names for the proof.
Hunt was over. Dog A was treed alone. Dog D was being searched for by its owner. Dog C My dog was trailing about 500 yards in deeper. Dog B we did not know where it was.
I went with the owner of Dog A to retrieve his dog off tree. As we neared the tree . He was out in front of me. He was leashing his dog. Dog B which I want to mention was a younger dog. Came in from behind me. I hollered up to A handler here comes Dog B. He yelled back for me to catch it. Too late. It passed me . Proceeded into the tree . In a matter of seconds as soon as B reached the tree Dog A attacked Dog B. I ran the last several feet to help break up the fight.
Dog A was in full attack mode. Like it lost its mind.Dog B was rolled over on its back . Dog A was ripping at Dog B chest then its neck . Like a dog attempting to kill actually shaking its head while latched onto Dog B. I even yelled she's trying to kill her. (both were females).Dog A was lock jawed on Dog B. We could not get Dog A off B. There was a lot of hollering I can tell you and attempts to separate. And I am not ashamed to say feared Dog A would turn her fury on either of us.
I got hold of dog A's hind legs and dragged it . She still continued to hold fast actually dragging Dog B with her. The owner is yelling get her off . I told him I was going to have to kick it. He said do what you got to do. I did what was necessary several times .There was no other choice. Dog A finally released Dog B. Dog A still had its leash on this entire time . I again dragged her by the hind legs away from dog B.
I finally was able to get hold of the leash and tie her back.
We immediately began tending to the much injured Dog B.
It had a gaping hole in its leg chest area. Bleeding profusely. It had a torn vein or artery.
Blood could be seen pulsating out of its body with every heart beat.
We concluded to pack the hole with leaves and mud to stop the bleeding.
He carried Dog B out while I led the instigating Dog A.

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Last edited by Pat Bizich on 12-04-2019 at 06:37 AM

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That's absolutely awful, no one should have to witness an incident like that. Rules are just like any law sometimes they protect a guilty party, in the case of a similar situation under the new rules the leashed dog would unfortunately get a free pass. Rules or not, the owner of the leashed dog should do the right thing and scratch his dog, take a write up and seriously evaluate what he is hunting. No rule would keep an honest man from doing what is right, not hide behind a rule that gives him a free pass. Dave

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Registered: Jun 2014
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Dave, are you going to stand around and hold your breath waiting for a guy, who knows what kind of dog he's hunting, to voluntary scratch his dog when he has a rule protecting him?

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Boys this rule has been in effect for a long time in the other kennel club. Contrary to popular belief it is simply not a problem.

Just hunt next month and see for yourselves

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Registered: Aug 2013
Location: Seneca, Mo
Posts: 5823

I posted this on a different thread but putting it here too...


Seriously, in your years of coonhunting how many dogs have you had that have required a trip to the vet because of injury from another dog in a hunt?_
I've been married to Cheyenne now for over 27 years and he has hunted in hundreds of cast in that span of time and never once have we had one injured by another dog that required a trip to the vet. I'm not saying it never ever happens but this is an extremely rare occurrence. Dogs are much more likely to be injured by many other things (cars, fences, hogs snakes etc, ect)._
I for one have had eough of the sky is falling attitude.

__________

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Cheyenne & Jennifer Cummings
Seneca , MO
(417)317-4815
"TEAM MAFIA"
*NATIONAL GRNITECH GRCH GRNITECH(5) HALL OF FAME PKC PLATIUM CH REDNECK BACKWOODS SHACK
2014 OK STATE CH, 2015 MO PKC LEADER, 2016 PKC NATIONALS SEMIFINALIST, 2016 UKC TOP 20, 2O17 UKC WORLD CHAMPIONSHIP 3RD PLACE, 2018 PKC SENIOR SHOWDOWN TRUCK HUNT FINAL 4, 2018 MO PKC STATE CHAMPION, 2019 AUTUMN OAKS NATIONAL GRNITE CH, 2019 PKC WORLD CH SEMIFINALIST. 2021 PKC SENIOR SHOWDOWN TRUCK HUNT FINAL 4.
*PKC WORLD CHAMPION PLATNIUM CHAMPION GRNITECH SHACK'S HEATHER ISLAND SOUTHERN STOGIE
2021 OKLAHOMA STATE CHAMPION, 2022 PKC WORLD CHAMPION, 2022 MO PKC STATE LEADER PRO SPORT TRUCK WINNER

RIP
*GRNITECH PKC SCH REDNECK MAFIA PKC HALL OF FAME REPRODUCER INDUCTED 2022
*GRNITECH CH PKC SILVER CH REDNECK SHACK ATTACK aka TAC 2018 OKLAHOMA STATE CHAMPION, 2020 MO PKC STATE LEADER

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Registered: Dec 2013
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All I can do is quote my Grandad. If you got a fast horse, a good lookin wife or a fightin dog. you had better be able to fight yourself.

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Registered: Jun 2014
Location: Louisiana
Posts: 3369

Well, tell Grandad he can scratch fighting dogs off his list. They're legal now.

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quote:

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Originally posted by shadinc
Well, tell Grandad he can scratch fighting dogs off his list. They're legal now.

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Cheyenne & Jennifer Cummings
Seneca , MO
(417)317-4815
"TEAM MAFIA"
*NATIONAL GRNITECH GRCH GRNITECH(5) HALL OF FAME PKC PLATIUM CH REDNECK BACKWOODS SHACK
2014 OK STATE CH, 2015 MO PKC LEADER, 2016 PKC NATIONALS SEMIFINALIST, 2016 UKC TOP 20, 2O17 UKC WORLD CHAMPIONSHIP 3RD PLACE, 2018 PKC SENIOR SHOWDOWN TRUCK HUNT FINAL 4, 2018 MO PKC STATE CHAMPION, 2019 AUTUMN OAKS NATIONAL GRNITE CH, 2019 PKC WORLD CH SEMIFINALIST. 2021 PKC SENIOR SHOWDOWN TRUCK HUNT FINAL 4.
*PKC WORLD CHAMPION PLATNIUM CHAMPION GRNITECH SHACK'S HEATHER ISLAND SOUTHERN STOGIE
2021 OKLAHOMA STATE CHAMPION, 2022 PKC WORLD CHAMPION, 2022 MO PKC STATE LEADER PRO SPORT TRUCK WINNER

RIP
*GRNITECH PKC SCH REDNECK MAFIA PKC HALL OF FAME REPRODUCER INDUCTED 2022
*GRNITECH CH PKC SILVER CH REDNECK SHACK ATTACK aka TAC 2018 OKLAHOMA STATE CHAMPION, 2020 MO PKC STATE LEADER

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Registered: Dec 2013
Location: Nichols Ny
Posts: 1565

quote:

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Originally posted by Redneck Mafia
No they are not...
6. SCRATCHING OFFENSES
Dog Related Offenses:
(b) For fighting or attempting to fight*, when off-leash_
during the hunt, including any time-out periods._
When the aggressive dog is known, scratch the_
aggressor only. If not known, scratch dogs involved._
Withdrawing to avoid dog being reported for_
fighting is not permitted.
*16. DEFINITIONS
Attempting to Fight: 1) Showing aggressive behavior and_
2) interfering with another dog(s) during the authority of_
the Judge.

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Eric DePue
Hill Country Kennels Itty-Bitty
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And
Partners on a few common trashy young dogs

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