Registered: Aug 2004
Location: Chattanooga, Tn
Posts: 22462

All right Allen, the World is over and it is time to go back to work. How far are we supposed to lead dogs off a tree before we cut them loose?
1. Immediately
2. A specified distance or time
3. It is up to the judge
4. It is up to the handler

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Registered: Jan 2007
Location: monroeville OH
Posts: 2685

I take 3 steps and turn loose .

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Registered: Aug 2004
Location: Chattanooga, Tn
Posts: 22462

But the rule says nothing about 3 steps. And are those big steps or little steps. Do you do that with every dog you hunt or is each dog different? Surely Mr Gingrich has addressed this somewhere.

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Registered: Jan 2007
Location: monroeville OH
Posts: 2685

quote:

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Originally posted by Richard Lambert
But the rule says nothing about 3 steps. And are those big steps or little steps. Do you do that with every dog you hunt or is each dog different? Surely Mr Gingrich has addressed this somewhere.

---

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Registered: Aug 2012
Location:
Posts: 930

About 15 steps usually.

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Weyers Cave Va
Posts: 13408

There is no set distance.. Its usually up to the Handlers.

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Registered: Aug 2013
Location: Seneca, Mo
Posts: 5823

Another loophole that needs closed

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Registered: Jul 2012
Location: AR
Posts: 291

My take on it is no one cuts loose until all handlers with a dog on the lead are satisfied. If you are ready then tell the judge so and he should ask any other handlers leading dogs if they are ready.

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Registered: Aug 2006
Location: Montour IOWA
Posts: 1714

There's no distance requirement. The rule states dogs must be turned loose when a dog opens on track 3ft or 40 yrds don't matter.

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Registered: Nov 2004
Location: Lake Village Indiana
Posts: 523

quote:

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Originally posted by Jack Bingham
There's no distance requirement. The rule states dogs must be turned loose when a dog opens on track 3ft or 40 yrds don't matter.

---

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Registered: Feb 2012
Location: airville,pa
Posts: 2072

quote:

---

Originally posted by Jgarrett
My take on it is no one cuts loose until all handlers with a dog on the lead are satisfied. If you are ready then tell the judge so and he should ask any other handlers leading dogs if they are ready.

---

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Registered: Jul 2012
Location: AR
Posts: 291

quote:

---

Originally posted by pamjohnson
if 3 handlers are ready and 1 isn't can 3 cut loose awhile instead of wasting time or should they be cheated out of ticking time because someone else's dog wasn't trained better?

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Registered: Aug 2013
Location: Seneca, Mo
Posts: 5823

quote:

---

Originally posted by Jgarrett
If loosing 20-30 seconds cost you a cast I wouldn’t call it cheating. I would call it a bad break. Now if a dog is at large and a handler is intentionally wanting to walk farther for the purpose of hoping you get leash locked then I can see that point of view too. I honestly don’t appose a set walking time but find it a non issue at your regular old $15 Ukc hunt.

---

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Registered: Jan 2017
Location: Miami, Ok
Posts: 384

quote:

---

Originally posted by Jgarrett
If loosing 20-30 seconds cost you a cast I wouldn’t call it cheating. I would call it a bad break. Now if a dog is at large and a handler is intentionally wanting to walk farther for the purpose of hoping you get leash locked then I can see that point of view too. I honestly don’t appose a set walking time but find it a non issue at your regular old $15 Ukc hunt.

---

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Last edited by TylerOSU on 09-26-2018 at 05:55 PM

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Registered: Nov 2004
Location: tennessee
Posts: 856

I wish they would put a time on it. Walk 30 seconds would be good with me. I just don’t see it happening in ukc. I would even be happy with walking a minute. What are everyone’s thoughts on he subject.

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Registered: Feb 2005
Location:
Posts: 1739

Y not just use "common sense" every hunt/tree is different yet all basically have things in common. Surely amongst 4 handlers theirs 1 with sense ! A cookie cutter rule is not necessary....but the use of "common sense" is !

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Registered: Feb 2011
Location: Okemah,OKLA
Posts: 36

It's in the Rules Cut'em when the JUDGE Tell's you to.

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Registered: Aug 2013
Location: Seneca, Mo
Posts: 5823

quote:

---

Originally posted by Dogwhisper
Y not just use "common sense" every hunt/tree is different yet all basically have things in common. Surely amongst 4 handlers theirs 1 with sense ! A cookie cutter rule is not necessary....but the use of "common sense" is !

---

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Registered: Feb 2007
Location: Pomeroy, Ohio
Posts: 2834

Granted the one minute walk rule in the other KC's makes things cut and dried however there are times in the woods where cutting the dogs at one minute exactly but it doesn't allow for any common sense decisions either. If a cast has a competent judge they are usually going to be able to make good decisions on when and where to recast the dogs if they aren"t stuck at just unsnapping the lead strap on the dogs at an exact time period. The UKC rules state that the judge is in complete authority of the cast and if someone doesn't like when he is telling the cast members to recut their dogs the procedure to question it and get the dogs cut loose if they don't agree with the judge.

16b) Hunting Judge Cast: The following procedure must be followed when using Hunting judges on a cast, regardless of category. Situations not questioned and notated at the time Judge’s decision is made, will not be considered.

1. The Hunting Judge has complete authority and will be responsible for scoring all situations.


So if a cast member doesn't agree that the judge isn't allowing them to turn their dog loose fast enough they can question it and go to rule 16:b (2 & 3) which states.

2. Should a situation arise where a handler questions a call that was made, or a call that should have been made but wasn’t, that handler may ask to have his question voted on by all cast members that remain with the cast at that time.

3. Each handler must vote or their dog will be scratched. It takes a majority vote to overturn judge’s decision. Any handler that is not satisfied with the outcome retains the right to place a question mark (?) on the card and present his question to the MOH/panel.

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Registered: Jan 2017
Location: Miami, Ok
Posts: 384

quote:

---

Originally posted by ov_blues
Granted the one minute walk rule in the other KC's makes things cut and dried however there are times in the woods where cutting the dogs at one minute exactly but it doesn't allow for any common sense decisions either. If a cast has a competent judge they are usually going to be able to make good decisions on when and where to recast the dogs if they aren"t stuck at just unsnapping the lead strap on the dogs at an exact time period. The UKC rules state that the judge is in complete authority of the cast and if someone doesn't like when he is telling the cast members to recut their dogs the procedure to question it and get the dogs cut loose if they don't agree with the judge.

16b) Hunting Judge Cast: The following procedure must be followed when using Hunting judges on a cast, regardless of category. Situations not questioned and notated at the time Judge’s decision is made, will not be considered.

1. The Hunting Judge has complete authority and will be responsible for scoring all situations.


So if a cast member doesn't agree that the judge isn't allowing them to turn their dog loose fast enough they can question it and go to rule 16:b (2 & 3) which states.

2. Should a situation arise where a handler questions a call that was made, or a call that should have been made but wasn’t, that handler may ask to have his question voted on by all cast members that remain with the cast at that time.

3. Each handler must vote or their dog will be scratched. It takes a majority vote to overturn judge’s decision. Any handler that is not satisfied with the outcome retains the right to place a question mark (?) on the card and present his question to the MOH/panel.

---

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It's all about preventative judging and situational handling that keeps you out of trouble.
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Registered: Aug 2004
Location: Chattanooga, Tn
Posts: 22462

quote:

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Originally posted by Redneck Mafia
You all have no idea what is headed your way in the very near future. Black and white cut and dry rule will save alot of headache for everyone.

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Or maybe those guys have no idea what they are in for.

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Registered: Apr 2015
Location: church hill tn
Posts: 5630

Welcome to the "grey" side, UKC RULES are supposed to be fairly simple and lean toward the HONOR SYSTEM, unfortunately the HONOR seems to be missing these days, and we are left with the GREY areas that get different rulings by different JUDGES [ inconsistent]. Hunting for big dollars will really muddy the water under these circumstances. Dave

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Registered: Feb 2007
Location: Pomeroy, Ohio
Posts: 2834

quote:

---

Originally posted by TylerOSU
That's all fine and dandy but how are you going to present this question? Dogs are at large still, yours is on the lead and he wont let you cut. At large dog gets struck and treed and you're still on the lead. Now you go score said dog that is treed in and lets just say he has a coon. Me questioning the judge on when I can cast isn't a scratching offense so I cant take it back to the club until AFTER the hunt. Say we go back to the club and I am right I should of been able to cut. Now how do you score everything AFTER my question? You delete it and add the amount of time back on the clock? Well now deadline is going to catch us before we can finish the hunt so the card is thrown out. Ill take my chances and cut then the judge can scratch me, I can question it, we call timeout and gather dogs, and go back to the club. See my argument?

---

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Registered: Nov 2004
Location: tennessee
Posts: 856

Ov_blues why would the one minute rule be a problem? I don't see a problem if the rule was walk one minute then cut them. What would common sense have to do with it. Just looking for the answer

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Registered: Aug 2013
Location: Seneca, Mo
Posts: 5823

quote:

---

Originally posted by johnny reb
Ov_blues why would the one minute rule be a problem? I don't see a problem if the rule was walk one minute then cut them. What would common sense have to do with it. Just looking for the answer

---

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