Registered: Feb 2012
Location: airville,pa
Posts: 2072

Some people wouldn't set out to light break them but it would happen then they would roll with it or they might sell it and some one else would roll into the hunts with it.
Heck I already have went to the hunts and drew out with dogs that even though there not mean there not something with an attitude that suits me so I put up with them and hope all goes well. Now just imagine having to draw out with dogs that are nasty as a snake but ya can't do anything till ya see it down right fighting away. And then drawing it hunt after hunt.
If that happens it couldn't be good for attendance.

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Registered: Jun 2014
Location: Louisiana
Posts: 3368

quote:

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Originally posted by Sgraves
Never done it , had others tell me if you hear a fight an it stops before you get to tree don’t handle them. Let’em go back to treeing you will find out which one caused the problem. May work , may not. I think it’s pretty sorry for a person to light brake one. They know it’s mean an find ways to still hunt the dog. People with that kinda mind set there is not much a rule will do.

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Donald Bergeron

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Registered: Aug 2013
Location: Seneca, Mo
Posts: 5823

This rule change does not affect a casts ability to head to the tree to investigate the happenings.
There have been light broke dogs for decades. Nothing in the rules prevents a judge from turning off the light when getting close to the tree.

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Registered: Feb 2012
Location: airville,pa
Posts: 2072

quote:

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Originally posted by Redneck Mafia
This rule change does not affect a casts ability to head to the tree to investigate the happenings.
There have been light broke dogs for decades. Nothing in the rules prevents a judge from turning off the light when getting close to the tree.

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Registered: Dec 2017
Location:
Posts: 340

quote:

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Originally posted by pamjohnson
I don't think you understand what the future of this rule will hold. It's really not a good move for the majority of the hunters.
I imagine you and your dog can handle whatever comes your way and that is great but you and your dog are way better than the majority of most hounds and handlers.

I really feel if ya have to see them fighting ya may as well go for a free for all and drop the fighting rules all together. At least it will be honest. I just think I would pass on the hunts comfortable.

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Registered: Feb 2012
Location: airville,pa
Posts: 2072

quote:

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Originally posted by Sgraves
I understand the way you see this . If you don’t try an see what dog started it you will end up getting honest dogs scratched. Like I said before, a dog will fight back to protect itself. It’s not promoting a dog fight , it’s catching the right dog.

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Registered: Aug 2013
Location: Seneca, Mo
Posts: 5823

quote:

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Originally posted by pamjohnson
the fact is the honest dog won't get scratched cause they don't have to fight back. I know this is not the popular opinion.

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Seneca , MO
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"TEAM MAFIA"
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*PKC WORLD CHAMPION PLATNIUM CHAMPION GRNITECH SHACK'S HEATHER ISLAND SOUTHERN STOGIE
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Registered: Jan 2004
Location: Tennessee
Posts: 2744

If I am reading the proposal correctly, you have to SEE the fight before any action can be taken.

With that stipulation in place, say you have 3 dogs treed on the same tree and a knock down drag out is heard. As you are approaching the tree, fight stops and is over when you arrive. Two dogs are covered from head to toe in blood the 3rd dog is clean and has that I'm scarred for life after what I witnessed look.

Since you didn't actually see it, nothing is done
Score the tree and cut loose for round two.

Is that right?

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ringtail dave

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Registered: Sep 2009
Location: Monticello, Wi
Posts: 744

quote:

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Originally posted by pamjohnson
You don't need a rule change.
You needed a new judge. You could have question the call and asked for a cast vote.
I feel for your unfortunate situation but some times that is also the bad breaks.
There is no perfect answer to fix all situations but I guarantee you that having to see them fighting is not the answer. That will just promote trained fighting and turn away attendance.

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Registered: Jul 2003
Location: PA
Posts: 2154

I have no use for them, or the people that hunt them. I see no reason to make rules to protect them.

If there is a known rough dog in my division of the hunt, I won't enter my dog and pay an entry fee. I will just pack up and go home. Next time, I won't even attend to start with.

Some of the rules proposals I'm seeing fly in the face of coonhunting with coondogs. This one is about protecting the rough dogs. There's another proposal that would penalize open trailers vs. silent dogs.

What's the objective? A silent-trailing, split treeing alligator? If so, I will pass!!! I'd rather have a coondog!!!

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Registered: Feb 2012
Location: airville,pa
Posts: 2072

quote:

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Originally posted by Redneck Mafia
Now we get to the bottom of it. The fact is unless you see it you don't know who the aggressor is, even with only 2 dogs at a tree.
Maybe some of you think it's ok to scratch from a distance based on your ears but unless I see it I'm not. Who you gonna scratch the loudest dog in there lol.

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Registered: Feb 2012
Location: airville,pa
Posts: 2072

quote:

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Originally posted by Kler Kry
When you have a two to two tie vote the judges decision stands and in this case was upheld by the Master of Hounds and it was in the best interests of the third hunter to side with the judge and eliminate the competition. The other KC winners are often determined by minus points given instead of plus points earned. This incident was my first UKC experience of this type of culture, but I've experience it numerous times in the other KC.
If the judge was required to make an attempt to identify the aggressive dog it would be an improvement. HONOR RULES ! There is no honor among thieves.

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Registered: Feb 2012
Location: airville,pa
Posts: 2072

The world hunt a few years back was won by Pac man. Toe cutter was on that cast. They wanted to see if Pac man was aggressive so the judge watched the tree to see if a fight was going to break out. They carried the black dog back to the truck after the hunt.

Is that what we are after?

I personally have scratched 2 dogs in a cast this year for fighting. Both was rolling under the tree full blown fight. The handlers had to break up the fight. Simple case of your both scratched right? Heck no the handlers had words and after that they still didn't feel there dogs were deserving of a scratch. Bottom line no one wants to except what they deserve. Winning is more important than honor even with honor rules. Bottom line.

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Registered: Jul 2004
Location: Nova Scotia
Posts: 2765

quote:

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Originally posted by honalieh

What's the objective? A silent-trailing, split treeing alligator? If so, I will pass!!! [/B]

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Registered: Dec 2017
Location:
Posts: 340

WOW, When did Harry Reid an Nacy Pelosi get involved with coon hunting. Talk about a liberal approach. A honest hound does not stand a snow chance in hell.

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Registered: May 2012
Location: Amerika land of the free?
Posts: 1237

Well this is how I see it scratch all dogs involved if aggressor is unknown , yep including mine , if this happens more often less jealous dogs that exhibit rude behavior will be taken to town for the hunts. Because they are banned after what 2-3 offenses for fighting. A couple of years ago , I drew a well known and liked handler , actually rode with him I was hunting my Judge dog , several of the guys at the club warned me about one of the dogs in my cast that was supposed to be mean , any way the Judge was concerned , and I flat told him well if this dog is really that mean , Ole Judge is not mean at all and a real good pup trainer , pups can jump all over him we even had a Yorkie that would sleep with him and eat out of the same bowl with him. But like Gus off the movie Lonesome Dove , he will not tolerate rude behavior especially from a barkeep. So I told the Judge on the way to the first drop if a fight breaks out at the tree SCRATCH THEM ALL , and then we can hurry in their and save that mean dog while he is still breathing air. Nothing happened on or during the cast at all. And we only treed one coon. JMHO

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Registered: Sep 2009
Location: Monticello, Wi
Posts: 744

I'm a firm believed in scratching the aggressive dog. I've been on a three dog cast where the dogs locked up when first released and the dogs weren't scratched because I wasn't the judge and I got out voted. I've seen the aggressive dog leave the tree when the cast approached leaving the two remaining innocent dogs to be scratched. It is just unfair to scratch the innocent dog that gets attacked.
Quit making your problem the other guys problem. We have always had aggressive dogs and breeders haven't taken the responsibility for it. It takes a minimum of two generations to eliminate the trait genetically. When you encounter an aggressive dog either its mother or father should have been spayed or neutered. A mean dog or a school yard bully who may be a crooked judge are the same. They don't deserve 3 strikes.

It is unfair to give a crooked judge power to eliminate competition by scratching an innocent dog! This rule is not only about aggressive dogs it is about hunting judges who win by scratching or giving minus point in order to win. This is my opinion and I'm sticking to it. Ken Risley

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Registered: Sep 2011
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I agree with Ken 100% percent

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Registered: Jan 2011
Location: Canton, Ohio
Posts: 2587

Very well said, Ken

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Registered: Feb 2012
Location: airville,pa
Posts: 2072

quote:

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Originally posted by Kler Kry
I'm a firm believed in scratching the aggressive dog. I've been on a three dog cast where the dogs locked up when first released and the dogs weren't scratched because I wasn't the judge and I got out voted. I've seen the aggressive dog leave the tree when the cast approached leaving the two remaining innocent dogs to be scratched. It is just unfair to scratch the innocent dog that gets attacked.
Quit making your problem the other guys problem. We have always had aggressive dogs and breeders haven't taken the responsibility for it. It takes a minimum of two generations to eliminate the trait genetically. When you encounter an aggressive dog either its mother or father should have been spayed or neutered. A mean dog or a school yard bully who may be a crooked judge are the same. They don't deserve 3 strikes.

It is unfair to give a crooked judge power to eliminate competition by scratching an innocent dog! This rule is not only about aggressive dogs it is about hunting judges who win by scratching or giving minus point in order to win. This is my opinion and I'm sticking to it. Ken Risley

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Registered: Apr 2014
Location: batsville ark
Posts: 1110

unless your whole cast can all run a 2 minute mile 9 out of 10 times a fight has been had on a cast no one is going to see it . lol hearing dogs fighting should be more than enough to scratch all involved . all this rule change would do is protect the deep alone dog that stays alone with fang power.

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Registered: Jun 2014
Location: Louisiana
Posts: 3368

You would have to run a two-minute mile in the dark because most of these dogs are light broke.

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Donald Bergeron

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Registered: May 2004
Location: northeast
Posts: 1278

quote:

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Originally posted by Kler Kry
It is just unfair to scratch the innocent dog that gets attacked.
Quit making your problem the other guys problem.
A mean dog or a school yard bully who may be a crooked judge are the same.

It is unfair to give a crooked judge power to eliminate competition by scratching an innocent dog! This rule is not only about aggressive dogs it is about hunting judges who win by scratching or giving minus point in order to win. Ken Risley

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Last edited by Pat Bizich on 06-17-2019 at 02:02 PM

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Registered: Feb 2005
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Posts: 1738

It's the quality of people .....sad but not much quality left to choose from !

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Registered: Dec 2017
Location:
Posts: 340

quote:

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Originally posted by Pat Bizich
Funny how some people on here will agree with these statements until it comes time that their own dog is involved in a fight . Then they become that very person that wants to scratch the other dog but not their own.

I drove over 130 mile to go to a nite hunt with a guy I thought was a friend. At a tree we were searching unbeknown to me he tied his dogs lead 2 inches ,yes that's correct no typo , from my dogs lead. With our backs to the dogs the leads entangled and a fight ensued. He threaten to DROP KICK MY DOG for fighting with HIS MOST FAVORTIST DOG(his words) and only wanted to scratch my dog.I argued both must be scratched not just mine. He refused. Guess what .None got scratched.

This is a part of the mentality of hunting judges we have to deal with of scratching the other guy but not me .

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